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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Why the king james version?
- Thread starter BigSodaExposer
- Start date
th1b.taylor
Member
BSE,
You have gone to an awful lot of trouble to try to establish a lie as the truth. It is a locally popular lie but a lie, none the less. I, also, was saved while studying the KJV, not the 1611 because I already ad been informed of the errors that were later corrected. I used the King James until God called me to teach but during those first two years of study the Holy Spirit impressed on me to research the translation standing in the world of Bible translations.
Doing this research I discovered that there were very few translations that stood further from a word for word translation than the KJV, any version of the KJV. I knew I was not rich enough to learn all three of the original languages to enable me to become a good teacher. As a result. I found the NASB to be the best, readily available word for word translation. I have found the word for word translation statement to be a bit of a misnomer because there is no such thing as a word for word translation when translating one language to another. That said, at the time I searched the NASB was rated as the number one, readily available word for word version on the American market. To this day I prefer to study from this translation because it is so close to what the earliest texts taught the people of God to follow.
So, one might ask me and some have, “Why do you open the KJV on Sunday Morning to read from?” Because I teach the GOM Class, a.k.a. The Grumpy Old Men's Class. Most of the men I teach are, as you are trying to be, settled in their ways, stuck in the Traditions Jesus warned us against. I pray you get over this illness because it can, truly, limit your growth in becoming like Christ.
You have gone to an awful lot of trouble to try to establish a lie as the truth. It is a locally popular lie but a lie, none the less. I, also, was saved while studying the KJV, not the 1611 because I already ad been informed of the errors that were later corrected. I used the King James until God called me to teach but during those first two years of study the Holy Spirit impressed on me to research the translation standing in the world of Bible translations.
Doing this research I discovered that there were very few translations that stood further from a word for word translation than the KJV, any version of the KJV. I knew I was not rich enough to learn all three of the original languages to enable me to become a good teacher. As a result. I found the NASB to be the best, readily available word for word translation. I have found the word for word translation statement to be a bit of a misnomer because there is no such thing as a word for word translation when translating one language to another. That said, at the time I searched the NASB was rated as the number one, readily available word for word version on the American market. To this day I prefer to study from this translation because it is so close to what the earliest texts taught the people of God to follow.
So, one might ask me and some have, “Why do you open the KJV on Sunday Morning to read from?” Because I teach the GOM Class, a.k.a. The Grumpy Old Men's Class. Most of the men I teach are, as you are trying to be, settled in their ways, stuck in the Traditions Jesus warned us against. I pray you get over this illness because it can, truly, limit your growth in becoming like Christ.
thankfully, the spirit filled immersed in Yeshua believers in union in Abba have continued, full, unearned, righteousness, unshakable peace, and overflowing joy together in union in Yeshua. (yeah, english complicates this sentence some, but the emphasis 'in union with Yeshua in Abba' is repeated several times in Scripture and is very important today for truth and fellowship in reality.). . .
no matter what translation , if they even have one, they participate in / read/ .. ... ... they are in agreement with Yhwh in Yeshua.
this is so rare, apparently, so few have ever witnessed or experienced this. but it is none-the-less true and real, exactly as it is written that it is and will be.
i haven't seen any official church teach nor preach nor demonstrate nor live this way, and most of the ones that i asked or questioned or sought (without knowing if they were real or not) fellowship in rebuked or rejected Yhwh, Jesus, and the Bible. some individuals most places did (hopefully) seek the truth, seek Yhwh, and find Him and were set free by Him.(and remained free to grow in Christ Jesus, no matter what if any was their 'standing' in church(brick and mortar ; vs ekklesia) ... ... ...
who had the best more accurate Scripture ? the ones Yeshua spoke to , of course.
and what did they do ?
they rejected Him, Yeshua, the Messiah.
so He gave thanks to His Heavenly Father, He Praised Him with raised eyes and open arms in front of His disciples,
for revealing these things(all about true salvation) to babes, and hiding these things from scholars;
for thus it was well pleasing to Him(Abba Yhwh the Creator) to do.
no matter what translation , if they even have one, they participate in / read/ .. ... ... they are in agreement with Yhwh in Yeshua.
this is so rare, apparently, so few have ever witnessed or experienced this. but it is none-the-less true and real, exactly as it is written that it is and will be.
i haven't seen any official church teach nor preach nor demonstrate nor live this way, and most of the ones that i asked or questioned or sought (without knowing if they were real or not) fellowship in rebuked or rejected Yhwh, Jesus, and the Bible. some individuals most places did (hopefully) seek the truth, seek Yhwh, and find Him and were set free by Him.(and remained free to grow in Christ Jesus, no matter what if any was their 'standing' in church(brick and mortar ; vs ekklesia) ... ... ...
who had the best more accurate Scripture ? the ones Yeshua spoke to , of course.
and what did they do ?
they rejected Him, Yeshua, the Messiah.
so He gave thanks to His Heavenly Father, He Praised Him with raised eyes and open arms in front of His disciples,
for revealing these things(all about true salvation) to babes, and hiding these things from scholars;
for thus it was well pleasing to Him(Abba Yhwh the Creator) to do.
If you feel that God has lead you to the KJV, then all I can say is I will respect your conviction.
I say this as someone who grew up believing the KJV was the only correct Bible, and who left that position in the last couple of years after doing my own research and exploring the arguments and counter arguments of the other sides. I don't wish to argue, though.
I say this as someone who grew up believing the KJV was the only correct Bible, and who left that position in the last couple of years after doing my own research and exploring the arguments and counter arguments of the other sides. I don't wish to argue, though.
th1b.taylor
Member
I have, like you, grown to the point that I do my best to, not, quench the Spirit and to avoid KJV only arguments. They are, as nearly as I can discern, (there's that judgment word again) no effect to move people into the relationship I have come to enjoy, the relationship described by Follower. As can be surmised from my first post number, I did not want a part in this discussion because of the hatred, usually, exhibited by the KJV only people towards everyone else.
Not only do I, often read from the KJV in my class, I also find it an extremely useful reference when preparing to take the Pulpit. I love my NASB for it's aim at remaining as true as possible to the Word For Word idea but there is also great value in the KJV and it's Thought For Thought method. When I read a difficult passage and I want to see if what the Spirit, that might be a spirit, is telling me, I will open several thought for thought translations to see if I can verify it. One, never failing lesson the Holy Spirit has given to me is, "If the teaching, from any spirit, does not align with the teaching of the scriptures, the Christians Final Court Of Arbitration, it is not from God.
I know that what I just said causes fur to fly in the Christian Community because I alluded to being influenced by one of the Demons belonging to Satan's troop. The issue is perversion, a seldom understood word today. I did not say I might be possessed by a Demon, for one Indwelt by and with the Holy Spirit, Demon Possession, that is impossible. But reason, meditate on the Word of God, for a moment. We are warned, in the New Testament, not to quench the Spirit. Demons began their created lives as Angels, at this time, second only to God in power. When Daniel prayed for an answer, the Prince of Persia, a demon, held him from Daniel until another angel from God arrived to release him to go on to answer Daniel. If I, at this time, lower in power and position to angels can quench the Spirit, does any sane human being believe one of the wrong party cannot influence us? Remember, even we are instructed not to do, exactly, what Satan strives to accomplish.
(The explanations are not for you QD but hopefully to avoid silly arguments from others.)
Deborah13
Member
I'm not sure how one can compare the KJV to the NASV as to being word or word which is closest.
They are translated from some different manuscripts.
KJV is translated from
NT: Textus Receptus, similar to the Byzantine text-type; some readings derived from the Vulgate. OT: Masoretic Text with Septuagint influence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Version
NASV is translated from
NT: Novum Testamentum Graece. OT: Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia with Septuagint influence.
.
Personally I like both of them.
They are translated from some different manuscripts.
KJV is translated from
NT: Textus Receptus, similar to the Byzantine text-type; some readings derived from the Vulgate. OT: Masoretic Text with Septuagint influence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Version
NASV is translated from
NT: Novum Testamentum Graece. OT: Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia with Septuagint influence.
.
Personally I like both of them.
th1b.taylor
Member
Deb,
What I learned from my time checking was that each was compared, on it's own merits, to the texts they were translated from as well as to how they compared to the Dead Sea Scripts, the oldest know Hebrew and Aramaic language copy of the Jewish Bible. I can be wrong and I did not keep my notes but let them go some time ago. To argue that the comparison cannot be made, just denies the known continuity of the written Word. Yes, there are differences in the, various, manuscripts but the experts, as a group, all agree the differences are in style, not in the content.
th1b.taylor
Member
Why the sniping? I happen to love the Old English Style myself and if you read and consider context, I did not follow the KJV crowd style of hatred. I did my best not to offend folks like Deb and you but both of your comments were off the cuff and not at all considered. Guess why these silly conversations always end with people becoming enemies?
th1b.taylor
Member
Had you prefaced this comment or followed it with several types of comments this could not have been considered sniping. The same is true of Debs, were hers a question, it would have been received as such.
Deborah13
Member
Bill, you did not offend me at all, not to worry about that.
That is why I said in my post, I like them both and I do.
I did the same research on both as best as I could. I'm not an KJV only person. It's just hard to compare them when they were translated from different manuscripts.
I'm used to the KJV but it drives me crazy to do a word search, I think something like "have given you" but no alas it's "hath given you". grrr....
But I look up a lot of words in the Greek and Hebrew anyway and I like the YLT a lot.
Have you found scripture verses that are so different between them?
I'm kind of a Shakespeare nut, so I love the rhythm of the KJV, such as this monosyllabic line, "she gave me of the tree, and I did eat". This is a perfect example of iambic pentameter, and it is lines such as this which make the KJV feel more like poetry than prose.
But that does not excuse the fact that much of it can be confusing, and even misleading, to someone not familiar and comfortable with the Elizabethan music of the English language. This, IMHO, is NOT a Bible for 21st century people who are trying to simply learn what God intends for us to know.
And, of course, way too much has been uncovered that lends to serious doubts about the true accuracy of the translation and editing procedures.
Frankly, I think The GOD'S WORD Translation is one of the best around for straight-forward understanding. I, myself, consult numerous translations in more serious study.
But that does not excuse the fact that much of it can be confusing, and even misleading, to someone not familiar and comfortable with the Elizabethan music of the English language. This, IMHO, is NOT a Bible for 21st century people who are trying to simply learn what God intends for us to know.
And, of course, way too much has been uncovered that lends to serious doubts about the true accuracy of the translation and editing procedures.
Frankly, I think The GOD'S WORD Translation is one of the best around for straight-forward understanding. I, myself, consult numerous translations in more serious study.
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turnorburn
Member
Confusing and misleading? statements like that create doubt Willie i was comfortable with that language as a child.. 400 years have gone by with no complaints why all of this drama now? 21st century man is no different than man of yesteryear..
tob
tob
then post in that era English. good luck . cars didn't exist then, btw as much as I have poor grammar. I read Thomas Paine's common sense in the same era English as the kjv with no problems.
turnorburn
Member
You too Jason you agree with Willie that my bible is confusing and misleading.. way too many serious doubts about accuracy.. really?
tob
tob
it can be. I have listen to pastors. are you fluent in koine greek?
23 tenses of greek verse how many in English? let see
1) past tense
2) future tense
3) present tense
4) present perfect
so how much can any bible be a word for word.? its not and nor can any language be.
shalom, what does that mean to you? in Hebrew that is a whole sermon. most Christians wouldn't see that.when pauls say grace and peace unto you and goes into also rebuking and corrected the church. that is what shalom is about.