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Are you taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Wearing the right shoes, and properly clothed spiritually?
Join Elected By Him for a devotional on Ephesians 6:14-15
https://christianforums.net/threads/devotional-selecting-the-proper-shoes.109094/
Why Trinitarians And Non-Trinitarians Have Different Beliefs?
- Thread starter WalterandDebbie
- Start date
You mean the same teams of Koine Greek scholars who translated the same word for "ages" in Hebrews 1:2, 11:3 as age or ages throughout 99.9% of the New Testament? Lookup G165 aión. It being translated as worlds or universe is anomalous and inconsistent with the Bible.
Not according to Hebrews 1:2. It says God created the ages through the Son in the last days. Even if it was "universe" it wouldn't fit the context because the universe wasn't created 2,000 years ago. Right?
Not irrelevant. There isn't a different definition for temptation for Jesus as there is for other people.
Verse?
He didn't literally see Satan fall like lightning from heaven. He had a vision of Satan being cast down to earth after battling with Michael in heaven, before the Great Tribulation. See Revelation 12 and 13. Jesus saw something that hadn't happened yet, a future event. Having a vision of a future event isn't an indicator of being God. Other prophets experienced the same things.
Jesus HAS always been the Son.
But there was no Jesus, or Son, until He was born of a virgin.
The Word has always known His future Father.
The Father has always know the Word, who would eventually be His
Son.
Jesus has always been the Son but there was no Son until the Son of Man?
He has always had a Father.
About the "Son"
“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
12 You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end
Don't need to I believe in the testimony God created by and through the Son.
Your problem is you refuse to believe the Son was with the Father in the beginning. Your reasoning doesn't hold,
It's irrelevant in regard to the discussion of the trinity. Jesus was tempted to do evil he refused. Clearly, He had no darkness in Him to be enticed and dragged away with.
Your unbelief in Jesus's eyewitness is noted. (I saw)
There was nothing stated about Jesus having a vision in that statement. Only you are introducing such to justify your unbelief.
God created the universe, the Son didn't.
Acts 4 plainly says the Sovereign Lord and Creator is God and that Jesus is His servant.
Your problem is you refuse to accept that aion means ages in 99.9% of the Bible and then when it's convenient you accept a translation that is inconsistent with that.
Jesus was tempted in every way as any other human is. Jesus' teachings are incompatible with him being a Man God. He, a man, said this:
Matt 15
19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, and slander. 20These are what defile a man, but eating with unwashed hands does not defile him.”
Seems that you didn't know that "seeing" or having "saw" a vision is all over the Bible. It isn't a movie that plays in one's head. If you have never been given a vision by God then there may be no reference for what it looks like.
How about Acts 7? Did Stephen have a vision when he could see the Son of Man at the right hand of God?
Acts 7
56“Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”
God created by and through the Son who was with the Father in the beginning.
As a Son He is in His Fathers service.
I accept the translations by those whose training allows them to do so. Since I believe the Son is before all things I have no need to look elsewhere.
Jesus is the only one without sin. That in itself sets Him apart from all others. If one is enticed and dragged away by their own evil desires then no darkness was found in Him. A perfect sacrifice without blemish. You seek to strengthen your case by that but that weakens your case.
This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.
True but Jesus was not a slave to sin as one needed to be set free.
Its seems since I believe the Son is before all things I believe His testimony. Again there is no testimony about a vision in His witness. Not found in the NT.
Irrelevant in regard to Jesus's testimony nothing was given in regard to a vision.
It was stated Heaven was open.
“I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.
Correct, as there was no Son of man until there was a Jesus born of a woman.
Yes He did, from the moment of His conception.
The first son of a mankind was either Cain or Abel?
Cain was born first. (Gen 4:1)
Begotten of the Father before all worlds is orthodox. John 1:18 declares that begotten one with the Father before the incarnation.
I know there was no Son of Man before the incarnation. I agree. I stating He has always been the Son.
Hebrews states God created by and through His Son. Not by and through the Logos. That would be before man was made. If He is not the Fathers Son then whose Son is He?
Not according to John 1. It says the "word" (logos) was with God in the beginning. Jesus isn't a word.
As servant he's in the Fathers service.
Then do you accept these translations by qualified and training professionals with their teams of Koine Greek scholars?
Berean Literal Bible
in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the ages,
Literal Standard Version
in these last days speaks to us in [His] Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom He also made the ages;
Berean Literal Bible
in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the ages,
Young's Literal Translation
in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages;
Smith's Literal Translation
At these last days spake to us in the Son, whom he set heir of all things, by whom also he made the times;
Literal Emphasis Translation
Has spoken to us in His Son, upon these last days, whom He appointed heir of all, and through whom He made the ages,
Anderson New Testament
whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom, also, he made the ages;
Godbey New Testament
whom he put forth the heir of all things, and through whom he created the ages;
Weymouth New Testament
has at the end of these days spoken to us through a Son, who is the pre-destined Lord of the universe, and through whom He made the Ages.
Worrell New Testament
at the end of these days spake to us in His Son, Whom He appointed Heir of all things, through Whom also He constituted the ages;
Only God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. As such, Jesus rightly said "Why do you call me good? Only God alone is good." While it's true Jesus is sinless, he is a man descended from Adam who is completely susceptible to the temptation to sin. Jesus had to learn to reject evil, choose good, grow in stature, and favor before God as he was perfected in obedience to his God.
Luke 2
52And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.
Hebrews 2
10In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting for God, for whom and through whom all things exist, to make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering.
Irrelevant.
You don't have a testimony from Jesus about him being before all things.
It doesn't mean it wasn't a vision. There is no record of Satan falling like lightning from heaven in the beginning. It doesn't happen, according to Revelation 12:7-9 until before the future great tribulation.
It had to have been a vision since Satan hasn't been hurled to earth by Michael the angel yet.
He was the only one who saw the vision:
Acts 7
56“Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”
For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. Colossians 1:16
But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands. Hebrews 1:8-10
JLB
1 Corinthians 8:6 says that the only God is the Father. The rules Jesus out as being God. Literally all things came from God, not the image of God as Colossians 1:15 refers to Jesus as. Where Jesus fits in is within context of the church.
6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.
It doesn't say Jesus is God. Since this is quoted from Psalm 45:6, the original context is about a human king with a queen. This king is most likely Solomon and he wasn't being referred to as Lord God Almighty. It doesn't transfer to Jesus that he is God when Psalm 45:6 is applied to him.
Furthermore, the fact that he has companions that God can anoint him above means he isn't God or equal to God.
This verse begins with the word "and" therefore it is conjoined with verse 9. Verse 9 ends with "Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions." So the Lord in verse 10 is a refence back to the last God mentioned which would be the Father. This is clear from Psalm 110:1 where YHWH is not Jesus.
According to that reasoning, it also precludes the Father from being Lord. Yet that contradicts Scripture. Also, if "of whom are all things" speaks of the Father's absolute existence and his nature as God, then it necessarily follows that "by whom are all things" speaks of the Son's absolute existence and nature as God. We cannot say that in relation to the Father "all things" means absolutely everything that has come into existence but that it means something different in relation to the Son. And this is confirmed in John 1:1-3, Col 1:16-17, and Heb 1:2, 6, 10-12.
Two logical arguments that have yet to addressed by anti-Trinitarians. The arguments are sound, which means the premises are true and the conclusions follow.
And, several passages state, including 1 Cor 8:6, all things literally came through the Son. That precludes him from ever having not existed. Again, that is a sound argument.
You're making certain assumptions about what "image of God" means, assumptions that ignore the clear context of verses 16 and 17 which clearly state all things were created through the Son.
Then what does the quote mean as applied to the Son by the Father according to the writer of Hebrews?
That's just fallaciously begging the question.
No. The "and" clearly refers to the first words of verse 8, "But of the Son he says." Again what do you think is meant by the application of this OT passage to the Son, by the Father?
I study God’s word.
It plainly says the Son …
laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.
JLB
Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one. For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
1 Corinthians 8:4-6
The context is about idolatry and Paul is reiterating that there is one God to these Gentiles who had only known the gods of paganism.
We know that God is one; the Father, the Word, and the Spirit.
For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7
Who became flesh, the Father or the Son?
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16
Who is returning from heaven to the earth with His saints?
The Father or the Son?
JLB