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Why Trinitarians And Non-Trinitarians Have Different Beliefs?

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The Bible's theology isn't refuted. Just because you can't use the Bible to support your beliefs doesn't mean we are going to go into the heretical teachings of the so called "early church fathers." There are many early writers who support what the Bible says, but there is a good reason many of the people you're referring to didn't make the cut to be put into the Bible.


After Jesus said that. he later said there would be no need to ask him anymore.


The Son of Man (a human) is the Son of God. There is no distinction.

Matt 16
13When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, He questioned His disciples: “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15“But what about you?” Jesus asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven.


No your understanding is mistaken.


The Lord of Jesus is God. That means Jesus isn't God.

Matt 11
25...“I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth...

John 10
29My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all.

John 14
28...the Father is greater than I.

1 Corinthians 3
23and you belong to Christ, and Christ belongs to God.

1 Corinthians 11
3...and the head of Christ is God.

1 Corinthians 15
27For “God has put everything under His feet.” Now when it says that everything has been put under Him, this clearly does not include the One who put everything under Him.
The ECFs did not teach heresies.
 
Jesus was born of a woman's "water".
He had no need to be reborn of the Spirit.
IMHO
Only begotten son. The physical birth (on earth) was because of the overshadowing of Mary by the Holy Spirit, I agree with the water in physical birth.

For parables, creation symbolism (shadows) to exist; you need the physical.

When you go to look for the higher meaning/understanding of water physical birth yo need revelation.

Meta ( greater beyond in Greek) is part of Metaphysical).
Matthew 12:42 kjv
42. The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

When we look at the Queen looking for wisdom, she went in the physical to find higher spiritual knowledge. Solom was blessed by God with wisdom.

At the baptism of Jesus, we see the Holy Spirit descend and remain on Jesus. I don’t want to inject a/my meaning here at his battism, but we must ask what this means. What does this baptism by John the Baptist, and the Holy Spirit arrival mean.

Our rebirth is a mystery shrouded in symbolism.

I will stop here for now with the following scripture.

Matthew 3:14 kjv
14. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15. And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
The Father.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16


I see so you believe God the Father was manifested in the flesh, and it was God the Father Who was crucified on the cross for our sins, and that it was God the Father that was preached in the world among Gentiles?

And I guess then you also believe God the Father was received up to heaven in glory after He accomplished all these things.

Jesus Christ the Son is Name preached among the Gentiles for Salvation.



Sorry but it was the Son, the Word Who became flesh, and was made a little lower that the angels.



JLB
 
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16


I see so you believe God the Father was manifested in the flesh, and it was God the Father Who was crucified on the cross for our sins, and that it was God the Father that was preached in the world among Gentiles?

And I guess then you also believe God the Father was received up to heaven in glory after He accomplished all these things.

Jesus Christ the Son is Name preached among the Gentiles for Salvation.



Sorry but it was the Son, the Word Who became flesh, and was made a little lower that the angels.



JLB
I am not against what you said. The words did come from the Father.
And
Let us make man in out image
And
The Holy Spirit breathed into Adam the soul (mind, will. emotions)

The Baptism of John the Baptist:
The Holy Spirit descended on Jesus and remained.

Jesus was born under the law.
That is a fact. Some can only see that.

Jesus was the first born from the dead. Some can see that.

How do we all see all?

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
I am not against what you said. The words did come from the Father.
And
Let us make man in out image
And
The Holy Spirit breathed into Adam the soul (mind, will. emotions)

The Baptism of John the Baptist:
The Holy Spirit descended on Jesus and remained.

Jesus was born under the law.
That is a fact. Some can only see that.

Jesus was the first born from the dead. Some can see that.

How do we all see all?

Mississippi redneck
eddif

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16


The question I asked him was from the above mentioned verse.

I will ask you the same question.


The Question:

Who was manifested in the flesh?

The Father or the Son?






JLB
 
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16


The question I asked him was from the above mentioned verse.

I will ask you the same question.


The Question:

Who was manifested in the flesh?

The Father or the Son?






JLB
I understand what you are saying.

The Word made flesh (Jesus).
PEMDAS Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally

Others putting the Father in Parenthesis are stuck in the Adamic mode. The new man has come.

eddif
 
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Do you believe the Word is the Father of the Son?
I believe there where 2 significant words.
I see so you believe God the Father was manifested in the flesh, and it was God the Father Who was crucified on the cross for our sins, and that it was God the Father that was preached in the world among Gentiles?
I didn't say the Father was crucified, but being Preached among the Gentiles was not small thing for the Father.
And I guess then you also believe God the Father was received up to heaven in glory after He accomplished all these things.
I doesn't say heaven. 🤓
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh, or more literally manifested at the flesh.
Justified (made right) in the Spirit (by Jesus)??, or made more good, not at all impossible.
Seen by (the) angels (i.e. messengers),
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in the glory.
1 Timothy 3:16
 
I believe there where 2 significant words.

I didn't say the Father was crucified, but being Preached among the Gentiles was not small thing for the Father.

I doesn't say heaven. 🤓


It says received up in glory, which is a reference to the cloud of glory that received Him, as He returned to heaven.

Where was Jesus received up to, when He left the mount of Olives ?


Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.” Acts 1:9-11


The Word was manifested in the flesh which refers to the Son.

The Son of God is certainly God; God the Son.


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16


Jesus the Son was preached among the Gentiles as the way of salvation.


You have only denied the truth of the scriptures.


looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ. Titus 2:13



Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
2 Peter 1:1




JLB
 
In your dreams.
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Kinda' off topic, but yes.

Do you feel Jesus was using a parable with Nicodemus in John 3 ?
I don't.
Jesus is doing a sort of PaRDeS with Nicodemus.

To take parables and constrain the concepts in parables seems strange to me.

Seed is the Word of God (Simple Example)
That is in plants

Religious ceremonies show the levels in the Law of Moses (Jesus is the Sacrifice Lamb.
Animals

A preacher compared to an ox
NT Persons plus animal comparison

One person plowed another plants another waters all about the Gospel

symbolism / metaphysics is broad and on many levels.

The nuances can be very small or to some people. Other people discussions appear to not even relate to the discussion, because of extreme contrasts.

The title of this thread is about differences
in beliefs.

A person has to be open to the multiple ways God speaks.
Creation
Law used lawfully
Finger on wall
Lazarus and rich man


Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
Jesus is doing a sort of PaRDeS with Nicodemus.

To take parables and constrain the concepts in parables seems strange to me.

Seed is the Word of God (Simple Example)
That is in plants

Religious ceremonies show the levels in the Law of Moses (Jesus is the Sacrifice Lamb.
Animals

A preacher compared to an ox
NT Persons plus animal comparison

One person plowed another plants another waters all about the Gospel

symbolism / metaphysics is broad and on many levels.

The nuances can be very small or to some people. Other people discussions appear to not even relate to the discussion, because of extreme contrasts.

The title of this thread is about differences
in beliefs.

A person has to be open to the multiple ways God speaks.
Creation
Law used lawfully
Finger on wall
Lazarus and rich man


Mississippi redneck
eddif
I can't tell if that is a yes or a no answer.
 
I can't tell if that is a yes or a no answer.
When we talk of parables we are up against why Jesus spoke in parables.

Isaiah 6
Matthew 13
Mark 4
Luke 8

All give the reason Jesus spoke in Parablrs

So that hearing they hear not
And
Seeing they see not

The Disciples did not understand parables till Jesus explained how to understand parables.

Church tradition says (the parables were understood by the simple people).

Church tradition is what this thread is all about. If you were raised as a person believing in your denominations book of church order, you will probably will go their way of belief.

The Holy Spirit leads us into truth. Not an individual truth but into truth. My struggle with truth will end at the last trump. Till that time I see through a glass darkly. I use all the eye salve I can find. I talk in riddles at times. I don’t think I am beyond making a wrong statement. I actually avoid yes and no statements at times. Sometimes a yes or no is not the best answer. A question can be loaded.

Jesus gave the key to understanding all parables. Seems clear to me, but,
The seed is the Word of God
The ground is men’s hearts
Does not get through to some.

This thread is the same way. God has to be asked what is the knowledge, wisdom and understanding I need to deal with this.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
When we talk of parables we are up against why Jesus spoke in parables.

Isaiah 6
Matthew 13
Mark 4
Luke 8

All give the reason Jesus spoke in Parablrs

So that hearing they hear not
And
Seeing they see not
This thread is the same way. God has to be asked what is the knowledge, wisdom and understanding I need to deal with this.
Do you think Jesus was speaking a parable to Nicodemus in John 3:3 ?
It looks like a statement of fact to me.
Especially since Jesus explains it in verses 6 and 7...of John 3.
We must be born again to see the kingdom of God !
 
I guess rednecks have issues.
Bipartite folks think:
Man has two parts
1. Body - physical
2. Soul - Mind Will Emotions

Others think Soul is spiritual

Tripartite folks think man is Body ,Soul , Spirit
1. Body
3. Spirit

Others think we start out at part 1 and move along a path.

Others have no rules at all.

Any one group can not comprehend any way but their way.

First birth - two parts
Second birth with new heart and mind.

Dominion of sin can be broken.

The final frump change is off in the future.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
Bad news when you have to quote your own post.

I never seem to get more till I share what I have already received. Which seems less than what the complete story is.

This as well is probably not what we get at the last trump.

Adamic man
1. Body
2. soul (mind, will, emotions)

We have to die to self in John’s Baptism of Repentance. And. Be Raised with Christ.

New Birth
1. Body given as a living sacrifice
2. Stony heart removed (our desires) replaced by heart of flesh with law installed
(His law not law of Moses)
And
Carnal mind modified? by the Mind of Christ
(Spirit of mind)
3. Holy Spirit in us

So

The two part man is modified by fire
And the Holy Spirit.

I will not be upset if some see it a little differently.

So the new birth changes the Adamic man to the One New Man. (Jew and gentile)

I probably see 1/10O0 / .001 of what is going on.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16
Hi all. Let me make some remarks. In the verse above most of English translations do not say 'God'. Just a fact. That verse is about the Son I believe.
 
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