Why Trinitarians And Non-Trinitarians Have Different Beliefs?

[Runningman]

John 21:24 kjv
24. This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.
25. And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

By the time we get this answered, The Day may come.


Mississippi redneck
eddif

Matthew 24
20Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Matthew 24
20Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath.

I think Jesus was talking about The Tribulation: Matthew 24:4-26

Love, Walter

 

[JLB]

Someone touched the hem of Jesus' robe and was healed according to Matthew 9:20-22, but the same exact thing occurred through Paul... by God, but I suppose you still don't believe.

Acts 1911God did extraordinary miracles through the hands of Paul, 12so that even handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and the diseases and evil spirits left them.

Yes, both Paul and Jesus were men.

God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

again

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:1,14

God became flesh. As a Man He was limited in His abilities.

You understand that, right?





JLB

 

[LeviR]

Elijah said he controlled the rain using his own word. Yet we know the power didn't come from Elijah. It's the same with Jesus.

1 Kings 17​

1Now Elijah the Tishbite, who was among the settlers of Gilead, said to Ahab, “As surely as the LORD lives—the God of Israel before whom I stand—there will be neither dew nor rain in these years except at my word!”​

​

Acts 2​

22Men of Israel, listen to this message: Jesus of Nazareth was a man certified by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know.​

Sing it.

“These rose colored glasses, that I’m looking through, show oooonly the beauty……but hide all the truth.”

 

[Free]

Sing it.

“These rose colored glasses, that I’m looking through, show oooonly the beauty……but hide all the truth.”

Please refrain from making such posts. First, they're insulting and so violate the ToS. Second, they do nothing to advance dialogue and understanding about the topic. Third, from where I'm sitting, it applies to you, so it's pointless.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Man, you guys are still on this trinity stuff? Aren't you tired? When will you understand that whatever brilliant theology you think you have is ultimately ME-ology, whatever debate you're engaged in is just an exchange of opinions based on your pre-conceived worldviews? Don't you have anything else to talk about?

 

[LeviR]

Man, you guys are still on this trinity stuff? Aren't you tired? When will you understand that whatever brilliant theology you think you have is ultimately ME-ology, whatever debate you're engaged in is just an exchange of opinions based on your pre-conceived worldviews? Don't you have anything else to talk about?

How do you learn that pre-conceived ideas might not be true?
Or does it matter.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

How do you learn that pre-conceived ideas might not be true?
Or does it matter.

Because we're living in a post-truth era, everybody is entitled to their own opinion based on their own experience which they perceive as the absolute truth as true as the sun rising in the east, and they could drag out a hundred bible verses to back their "truth", but it's still their pre-conceived ideas. The whole bible is about neither you or me, but Jesus who IS truth.

 

[Free]

Man, you guys are still on this trinity stuff? Aren't you tired? When will you understand that whatever brilliant theology you think you have is ultimately ME-ology, whatever debate you're engaged in is just an exchange of opinions based on your pre-conceived worldviews? Don't you have anything else to talk about?

If you’re not interested then please don’t post. Let people discuss what they want to discuss. It’s no skin off your nose.

 

[Free]

Because we're living in a post-truth era, everybody is entitled to their own opinion based on their own experience which they perceive as the absolute truth as true as the sun rising in the east, and they could drag out a hundred bible verses to back their "truth", but it's still their pre-conceived ideas.

Yes, people are entitled to their own opinion, so why do you care if people want to discuss something? Besides, truth matters and we find truth by discussing and evaluating. You seem to think that truth cannot be known. Tsk tsk.

The whole bible is about neither you or me, but Jesus who IS truth.

And here you go again. Which Jesus? Your Jesus? You’re just begging the question.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Yes, people are entitled to their own opinion, so why do you care if people want to discuss something? Besides, truth matters and we find truth by discussing and evaluating. You seem to think that truth cannot be known. Tsk tsk.

Keep in mind that we're not talking about the truth of any mundane matter, but the very nature of the almighty God, only God himself has a say on that, for He alone knows himself, anything we've heard and learned are secondhand information proceeded from human sources, they're just hearsay. Other truths in life can be known based on personal experience and physical evidence, but the truth of God is on a whole new level. So you're right to a certain extent, that truth "cannot be known" - unless it has been revealed to you by God himself. And please note that Jesus didn't ask "what does the Scripture say I am," knowing the truth of God requires a personal encounter with Jesus like Saul of Tartus being knocked off horseback, reading and studying him from the bible is not enough, that only enables you to know ABOUT God, but not knowing him closely and intimately.

When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am? So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets. He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven." (Matt. 16:13-17)

And here you go again. Which Jesus? Your Jesus? You’re just begging the question.

Which one? The one that comes in the flesh. Which one is yours?

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. (1 Jn. 4:1-3)

 

[Free]

Keep in mind that we're not talking about the truth of any mundane matter, but the very nature of the almighty God, only God himself has a say on that, for He alone knows himself, anything we've heard and learned are secondhand information proceeded from human sources, they're just hearsay.

Yes, and he revealed many things about himself in the Bible, in human language so that we can understand some things about him.

Other truths in life can be known based on personal experience and physical evidence, but the truth of God is on a whole new level. So you're right to a certain extent, that truth "cannot be known" - unless it has been revealed to you by God himself. And please note that Jesus didn't ask "what does the Scripture say I am," knowing the truth of God requires a personal encounter with Jesus like Saul of Tartus being knocked off horseback, reading and studying him from the bible is not enough, that only enables you to know ABOUT God, but not knowing him closely and intimately.

When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am? So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets. He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven." (Matt. 16:13-17)

Knowing God requires relationship. Knowing the truth of God, so that one can know who the one true God is, requires reading the entirety of Scripture, preceded by prayer asking for the Spirit’s help, as well as making use of all available study materials from the beginning of the Church.

We have much more material abailable to us than Peter had when God revealed to him that Jesus was “the Christ, the Son of the living God.” We only know that because God spoke to us through the inspired writings of the NT. That is God’s revelation to us, so that believers can know the truth; it doesn’t take special revelation.

You say that “reading and studying him from the bible is not enough, that only enables you to know ABOUT God.” But, that pretty much undermines your entire argument, your entire post.

Which one? The one that comes in the flesh.

That can mean he was merely human. It is often thought that John was speaking against Gnosticism. But, that does’t really tell us who Jesus is.

Which one is yours?

The one who claimed to be God’s Son, having the same nature as the Father yet not being the Father, and also was truly man, having the two natures as one person.

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. (1 Jn. 4:1-3)

No verse exists in isolation. John says much, much more than this about who Jesus is, as do the NT writers. You would do well to take all of it together lest you make Jesus out to be less than he is and end in error.

 

[LeviR]

Keep in mind that we're not talking about the truth of any mundane matter, but the very nature of the almighty God, only God himself has a say on that, for He alone knows himself, anything we've heard and learned are secondhand information proceeded from human sources, they're just hearsay. Other truths in life can be known based on personal experience and physical evidence, but the truth of God is on a whole new level. So you're right to a certain extent, that truth "cannot be known" - unless it has been revealed to you by God himself. And please note that Jesus didn't ask "what does the Scripture say I am," knowing the truth of God requires a personal encounter with Jesus like Saul of Tartus being knocked off horseback, reading and studying him from the bible is not enough, that only enables you to know ABOUT God, but not knowing him closely and intimately.

When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am? So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets. He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven." (Matt. 16:13-17)


Which one? The one that comes in the flesh. Which one is yours?

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. (1 Jn. 4:1-3)

Peter had been with John the Baptist and knew what he taught about the Christ. And knew that the Christ was the one whom Moses and the prophets did write.
Moses and the prophets were inspired by the spirit of the Father, and thats how the Father revealed Christ to Peter.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Yes, and he revealed many things about himself in the Bible, in human language so that we can understand some things about him.

But again, whether the doctrine of holy trinity is in the bible is debatable, but the identity group of "trinitarians" is nowhere to be found in the bible. I'm vehemently against the notion of "no one comes to the Father except through the trinitarian doctrine", because that's a twisting of God's words. A thread with a title of "trinitarian vs non-trinitarian" is wrong at the beginning when it artificially divides God's people into two camps, and everybody including you just goes along with that and defends that, only I call it out.

Knowing God requires relationship. Knowing the truth of God, so that one can know who the one true God is, requires reading the entirety of Scripture, preceded by prayer asking for the Spirit’s help, as well as making use of all available study materials from the beginning of the Church.

We have much more material abailable to us than Peter had when God revealed to him that Jesus was “the Christ, the Son of the living God.” We only know that because God spoke to us through the inspired writings of the NT. That is God’s revelation to us, so that believers can know the truth; it doesn’t take special revelation.

You say that “reading and studying him from the bible is not enough, that only enables you to know ABOUT God.” But, that pretty much undermines your entire argument, your entire post.

You can bet that all those religious elites, the Pharisees, Sadducees, scribes and lawyers knew the Scripture better than anybody else, they'd devoted their whole life studying the Torah, they can recite any passage from the top of their head, and yet none of them knew God, they ended up crucifying God on the cross. You can say that they were reading the Old Testament, we're living in the New Testament era, then how come that false prophets are rising in Jesus's name and many are deceived? (Matt. 24:4-5) What prompts you to ask me repeatedly - "which Jesus"?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

That can mean he was merely human. It is often thought that John was speaking against Gnosticism. But, that does’t really tell us who Jesus is.

And yet that sufficiently debunks Runningman's argument that "God and man are incompatible".

The one who claimed to be God’s Son, having the same nature as the Father yet not being the Father, and also was truly man, having the two natures as one person.

Well said, sir, I agree with you one hundred percent, I've never challenged this. I myself explained his dual nature to others.

No verse exists in isolation. John says much, much more than this about who Jesus is, as do the NT writers. You would do well to take all of it together lest you make Jesus out to be less than he is and end in error.

For the record, you asked me "which Jesus", not "who Jesus is", this passage is the one that specifically distinguishes the real Jesus from all fake ones.

 

[eddif]

How do you learn that pre-conceived ideas might not be true?
Or does it matter.

Interesting reply.

We are not born pregnant with a new birth on the way.
Or, did I read something into what you posted.

The Word of God is planted in a good heart that is capable of a new birth. Plowing, planting, and wattering are needed.

Symbolism understanding is needed.

Thanks.


Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
I have used this as an example before. Let's see if we can plug it in here:

Trinity is a word used to express the doctrine of the oneness of God as existing within the three distinct Persons (or personalities) of the one God. It is originates from the Greek word "trias." The first time "trias" was used was by Theophilus around 168-183 A D. The first time for the Latin term "trinitas" was by Tertullian in 220A.D. to express the Trinity doctrine. We can break down the doctrine to these four points:
1. There is only one God (Deut. 6:4; Mark 12:29, 32).
2. The Father is God and is a divine Person or Personality distinguishablly different from the Son and the Holy Spirit. (Exo. 4:22-24, Isa. 44:6. 1Cor.8:6)
3. Jesus Christ is equally God, and is a Person distinguishablly different from the Father and the Holy Spirit. (Deut. 18:15, Dan. 3:23-24, John 1.1; 14, John 5:18)
4. The Holy Spirit is equally God and a divine person distinguishally different from the Father and the Son. ( Genesis 1.2, Isa. 63:14, Matthew 28:19, Acts 5:3-4)

The doctrine of the Trinity was developed to help people understand the relationship between God as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Remember that, at this time 168-183 A.D., believers did not have access to a completed Bible as we do. They received their teaching through oral communication. So doctrines were introduced to help believers retain critical information.

So how can three distinct persons be one distinct person? This doesn't seem possible. How can three ones be one in total?

1 • One • I = 1 or One or I.

I can multiply any form of one in any order. Each of the ones are separate, distinct unto itself, yet they all equal each other to the point that any form may be used as the answer. That is probably as close as I can get to explaining the doctrine of the Trinity.

Have I fully explained the Trinity? Qf course not. How can the finite (me) fully describe the infinite (God)? I hope this helps a little in the discussion. Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[Runningman]

Yes, both Paul and Jesus were men.

JLB

Paul came after Jesus was taken to heaven and what he continued to write about Jesus, some decades after Jesus was taken, is that Jesus is still a man. Stephen saw a man too.

Acts 7
56And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

1 Cor. 15
47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

1 Tim 2
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

When you talk about God do you say He's a man in heaven? Paul said Jesus is a man still.

 

[Josef]

Paul came after Jesus was taken to heaven and what he continued to write about Jesus, some decades after Jesus was taken, is that Jesus is still a man. Stephen saw a man too.

Acts 7
56And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

1 Cor. 15
47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

1 Tim 2
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

When you talk about God do you say He's a man in heaven? Paul said Jesus is a man still.

Hey All,
Let me add that Jesus was clearly still in human form after the resurrection.
He retained the marks of the nail injuries He received prior to resurrection.
The marks were there.
But His body is no longer corruptible.
That is what makes Him the new Adam.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[Runningman]

Hey All,
Let me add that Jesus was clearly still in human form after the resurrection.
He retained the marks of the nail injuries He received prior to resurrection.
The marks were there.
But His body is no longer corruptible.
That is what makes Him the new Adam.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

yes and the same resurrection Jesus had, those who are counted worthy will also have.

What specific thing did Jesus do or obtain that makes him God in your opinion?