Recently I've been talking to some people who are so completely convinced the bible is a big outdated book of ignorance. I can almost see where they are coming from with the way some "Christians" act today. I find myself desperately looking for the words to describe how amazing God's influence truly is to those who have never experienced it. The thing is, I don't have one of these amazing miracle stories to tell or anything fancy to open up skeptical ears. I ask myself "why did I choose god, how can I explain the subtle, yet drastic, change becoming a Christian made in my life?" To me it's so obvious and There is not a doubt in my mind our God is alive and very much real. But how do we show this glory to non believers looking for physical proof or some crazy special appearance from god himself?
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Why we chose God
- Thread starter Lne17
- Start date
Hi Lne17 and welcome to CF.net.
The unbeliever will judge and know us by our works, God knows us because of Christ Jesus, and we know one another by the fruit of the Spirit in our lives..
Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
The unbeliever will judge and know us by our works, God knows us because of Christ Jesus, and we know one another by the fruit of the Spirit in our lives..
Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
The Bible is far from outdated. In fact science has a long way to go to catch up with the Bible. Jesus does warn us about the traditions of man and some of our traditions are outdated. Some of mans traditional understanding of the Bible is outdated.
ravindran_eee
Member
Just my 2 cents on this..
First, it's not always about God doing some miracle. By being born again, the change should be within us. We should start showing the fruits of the spirit. Through that we should be light for the world. Jesus himself calls us to be light to the world. Believing in Christ is not for living a better life on earth. It is more to do with eternal life. We have to come to terms with the fact that we are travelers in this earth! It is not an easy thing though.
Second, our commission is only to spread the Gospel. God will take care of the rest. We cannot change a person's heart. Only God can do that. We have to simply tell the Gospel. We should not try to convince others using our knowledge. Always remember that Word of God is sharper than any two-edged sword. It can penetrate any depths of heart and mind. It can separate soul and spirit. We should simply really on the power of Word of God. Only that convict a person.
Third, non-believers would always ask for signs. Jews did the same thing to Jesus. Not everyone will convicted by signs and miracles. Was Pharaoh get convicted by seeing the miracles? Even Israelites forgot their Lord even after being brought through the Red Sea. So there is no point in looking for signs.
Finally, I firmly believe that we don't go and look out for God. We don't choose God. He chooses us. God chooses us! The title of the thread did not sound rite for me!
G
Guest
Guest
But are we not asking, seeking and knocking at the same speed in which God the Father is drawing us in by his grace?
Matthew 7:7 Hi rav
ravindran_eee
Member
G
Guest
Guest
Hello! I think we seek and search after God chooses usBut God has to call us first..
Think of salvation as two people walking towards each other in a field. The first person is God the Father drawing you in by his grace, the second person is you. While God is drawing you in, at the same time you are asking, seeking and knocking at the same speed. Matthew 7:7 - God meets you right where you are, right in the middle of the field at the exact same time. The reason why I say at the same speed is because God is sitting on his throne drawing you in with his grace. He doesn't even have to get off his throne and walk towards you because his grace is enough to draw you in. God's love is never forced. Salvation is you and God meeting in the middle of the field at the same exact time.
For example, say you wanna meet God in the middle of the field at 3pm. Neither you or God is in the middle of the field early or late. Nobody is waiting on the other. Your asking, seeking and knocking meets God's grace at the same time. When I say that God meets you in the middle of the field, I'm saying that wherever you are in life whether you're 24, 35, 40, 55, 70, he meets you right where you are in your sinful nature. If you're not asking, seeking and knocking you're just making it that much harder for God to love you. Blessings.
Mountainshield
Member
When it comes to sceptics, the problem today is that most people think that science has debunked the Bible and that Christianity is anti science (this is also mostly due too bad ignorant christians as well as haters). Though I agree with "urk" metaphor, it helps little when the sceptics are walking away from God or even blocking God from reaching them.
The best approach in my opinion is first to clarify that science and christianity complement each other, introduce them too William Lane Craig, Harun Yahya or Stephen C myers for starters. Maybe get them to watch some of Harun yahya documentaries on youtube. When they see that science makes the argument for God stronger, they will also open their mind and heart to God. Making salvation a step closer.
The best approach in my opinion is first to clarify that science and christianity complement each other, introduce them too William Lane Craig, Harun Yahya or Stephen C myers for starters. Maybe get them to watch some of Harun yahya documentaries on youtube. When they see that science makes the argument for God stronger, they will also open their mind and heart to God. Making salvation a step closer.
ravindran_eee
Member
Hello! It's nice talking with you! I am not denying that we have to yield to the call of God.. Let's say there are 2 guys.. Having a very similar life style.. Gospel is preached to both of them.. Only one gets saved.. Now, is it because only person chose to yield to the calling? Did one person deny it because of his free will? For this, I would like to refer to Ephesians 1:4.. God chose us even before creation.. Which means, He knows who will yield to the call..
When we were not saved, we were living a sinful and being dead to sin.. How is it possible for us to chose God while being dead? So my belief is that, God first chooses us and enables us to yield to his call through his Grace.. We grow and become more close as we continue to seek Him further.. It's nice talking with you!
When we were not saved, we were living a sinful and being dead to sin.. How is it possible for us to chose God while being dead? So my belief is that, God first chooses us and enables us to yield to his call through his Grace.. We grow and become more close as we continue to seek Him further.. It's nice talking with you!
ravindran_eee
Member
If the ability is ours to choose Him, how does that fit with God's sovereignty? Just to get your view!
Grazer
Member
Fits perfectly well I think. We couldn't choose until God chose us which he's done.
thisnumbersdisconnected
Member
The Holy Spirits draws all, the Holy Spirit calls some who show some sign of acceding to the draw, and the Holy Spirit opens our hearts to the message of the gospel, and enables us to make a decision for Christ. It is a small but significant window that in no way violates God's sovereignty.
ravindran_eee
Member
Interesting views! Well, we are talking about a topic to which there would be debate among great theologians!! The difference in my opinion is, Holy Spirit does not call someone who is showing signs to the draw. Holy Spirit simply chooses and enables someone to show signs to the draw. Who shows the sign is something we do not know. It is God's sovereignty. I would go back to Romans 9:22. Paul talks about vessels for destruction. Example would be Pharaoh. It is very clear in Bible that the Lord hardened his heart. It does not say Pharaoh was not yielding to Lord or something like that. Pharaoh was simply a vessel to establish God's glory to Israelites. The question I would ask is, did Pharaoh have a choice in his hand to yield to the Lord?
Grazer
Member
I'm not sure how to take the passage about the pharaoh. He sent Moses (I think it was Moses, I might be wrong on that) in to convince him knowing full well he wouldn't succeed because he'd hardened his heart. Plus, if God wants none to perish (as 2 Peter tells us) why would he harden someone's heart?
Grazer
Member
I can get onboard with God using the pharaohs actions for his purpose, I just can't get to God hardening someone's heart deliberately.
ravindran_eee
Member
I would use the exact same point to argue further. Let's take another bible verse. Luke 8:11-15. It talks about seeds being sown on rock, good soil, sideways and among thorns. So it is something already inside the person. If it is really inside the person (as seed), then are we really taking a decision based on choice or freewill or it is absolutely pre-determined?
thisnumbersdisconnected
Member
I was sure you would. But that isn't about individual election. It is about the election of Israel as God's chosen people, an example to the world of a faith life, its pitfalls, its glories and its outcomes.
This is the view perpetuated by various degrees of adherence to the teachings of Calvin's successors -- which incidentally taught things Calvin never said. Paul is writing to the Christians at Rome about the differing nations of people and tribes in these chapters. There were various forms of Judaism practiced in southern Europe and Asia. Many of the peoples of Rome, Greece, Anatolia, the Iberian peninsula and even Europe were descended from the Israelite tribes of the northern kingdom of Israel. Paul was part of the southern kingdom, called "Judah," and his education by such as Gamaliel in Jerusalem demanded that he point out the separation between the faithful who had remained in Judea from the apostate Jews who had fled the land and settled among the non-Jewish nations, which led them to abandon the Jewish religion many centuries earlier.
Many scholars miss the fact that Paul used what amounted to pejoratives in addressing these people. He often referred to himself and the southern kingdom as "Israel" or as "Judeans" (translated into English Bibles as "Jews"), in order to make the point that he also was a true Israelite as much as those diasporan residents to the north. Paul most often referred to the northern kingdom people with the Greek word "ethnoi," which, in the Koine Greek, meant "ethnic group." English versions translate "ethnoi" as "gentiles" which has come to mean "non-Jew," but that is not at all what it meant to Paul, or to his readers. When Paul used the term "Greek," it was the Koine word hellen, which specifically referred to non-Jewish peoples, mostly Greek by location or ancestory, but also other non-Jewish nations.
Paul, throughout Romans 8-11, is making the point to the Grecian Christians in Rome that they are God’s elect chosen people while other races were created for different purposes, perhaps even for destruction, but only if they do not proclaim Christ as Savior and Lord. Paul states that God has endured with longsuffering patience the attacks of non-Israelites against His own select children in order that He might reveal His own Glory to His children by destroying their oppressors. That comes in the final judgment. Paul never taught that God selected any individual for destruction.
Grazer
Member
I go with choice and freewill.