What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Bible Study Why would the Apostle Paul say such a thing?

iLOVE said:
99.999% Christians practice sin (the works of the flesh).
Click to expand...

Speak for yourself.

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


  • His commandments are not burdensome.

If His commandments are not burdensome then why do you say it’s so hard to obey Him? Why do you believe soooooo many Christians live a lifestyle of disobedience?



Have you ever repented before God of a sinful habit and He sowed you how to overcome it or showed you why that particular sinful habit was predominate in your family line?


JLB
 
Quantrill said:
Whose righteousness does the Christian stand in? Whose righteousness is the Christian covered with? His own, or Christ's?

Quantrill
Click to expand...

When we repent, and therefore obey the Gospel we are born again, whereby our sins are forgiven and we are justified.

We have a clean share. We are declared to be righteous; just as if we had never sinned.


Now, we begin our new born again life, and are empowered with the Spirit to do what we could never do without it.


We now had the God given ability to walk according to the Spirit, rather than walk according to the flesh. From this point forward we must learn to walk in the Spirit, SO THAT we do not fulfill the lust’s of the flesh.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16


Let me share a scripture with you, that I believe you are familiar with. However I want to point our one particular word in this passage to emphasize something in particular.


For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
2 Corinthians 5:21


Can we discuss this?




JLB
 
JLB said:
When we repent, and therefore obey the Gospel we are born again, whereby our sins are forgiven and we are justified.

We have a clean share. We are declared to be righteous; just as if we had never sinned.


Now, we begin our new born again life, and are empowered with the Spirit to do what we could never do without it.


We now had the God given ability to walk according to the Spirit, rather than walk according to the flesh. From this point forward we must learn to walk in the Spirit, SO THAT we do not fulfill the lust’s of the flesh.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16


Let me share a scripture with you, that I believe you are familiar with. However I want to point our one particular word in this passage to emphasize something in particular.


For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
2 Corinthians 5:21


Can we discuss this?




JLB
Click to expand...

Sure, we can discuss it.

Quantrill
 
Quantrill said:
Sure, we can discuss it.

Quantrill
Click to expand...

Did you notice the word “become” in the verse?

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
2 Corinthians 5:21


Become denotes a process. A process of becoming the one thing while diminishing in the other.


Do you agree?


IOW, We have Christ in us. We are joined to Him, being one spirit with Him. We stand by His righteousness.

However, there is a balance to this truth.


We must live our life by (out from) this new righteous Life within us, rather than living to gratify the sinful cravings of our flesh the way we used to.

Paul says it this way to the Romans —


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14


  • For if you live according to the flesh you will die;
  • but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.




JLB
 
JLB said:
Speak for yourself.

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


  • His commandments are not burdensome.

If His commandments are not burdensome then why do you say it’s so hard to obey Him? Why do you believe soooooo many Christians live a lifestyle of disobedience?



Have you ever repented before God of a sinful habit and He sowed you how to overcome it or showed you why that particular sinful habit was predominate in your family line?


JLB
Click to expand...
Question I asked Pastor Curtis:
Bible study question? If the Believer is frustrating grace by their Faith being misplace; by not placing and maintaining their Faith exclusively in Christ and Him Crucified - will grace continue to much more abound over sin in the life of a Believer?

Pastor Curtis answer:
"No sir I do not believe that it will according to Gal 1:6, 5:1-4 and other scriptures. The word “frustrate” means to deny or to set aside. Grace only takes place “through faith”. Grace is God doing something in, for, to or through someone through their faith. Hope this helps.

To think we need something other than what God has provided for us in Christ and His atoning work at Calvary, is to tell God, “The Cross was not enough.” Until the Church returns to faith in the Cross alone, there will be no repentance granted, for repentance can only take place as one acknowledges the Truth (2 Timothy 2:24-26), which is Jesus Christ and Him Crucified."

Please take heed to what is being said above!


You continue to believe that our Temples are built by works and law (Romans 8:3). I Believe (the few - Matthew 7:14), our Temples are built by Grace through Faith (Christ and Him Crucified) - Romans 8:2
 
iLOVE said:
If the Believer is frustrating grace by their Faith being misplace; by not placing and maintaining their Faith exclusively in Christ and Him Crucified
Click to expand...

Never heard of placing and maintaining our faith...

Faith is a noun. It’s the substance of the thing we hoped for.

Faith is what we receive when we hear God. It’s a gift from God.

We don’t “place our faith” in anything, we receive faith from God.

Maybe you you mean place your trust in Christ.

The best thing For you to do is post the scripture that says we must “place and maintain our faith exclusively in Christ and Him crucified”.

That way we can discuss the scripture you are referring to.







JLB
 
JLB said:
Did you notice the word “become” in the verse?

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
2 Corinthians 5:21


Become denotes a process. A process of becoming the one thing while diminishing in the other.


Do you agree?


IOW, We have Christ in us. We are joined to Him, being one spirit with Him. We stand by His righteousness.

However, there is a balance to this truth.


We must live our life by (out from) this new righteous Life within us, rather than living to gratify the sinful cravings of our flesh the way we used to.

Paul says it this way to the Romans —


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14


  • For if you live according to the flesh you will die;
  • but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.




JLB
Click to expand...

No. We don't 'become' the righteousness of Christ by process. We become the righteousness of Christ by declaration only when we exercise our faith in Christ.

Salvation always involves the righteousness of God revealed. (Rom. 1:16-17). Not your righteousness revealed. The righteousness of God revealed.

So, (Rom. 3:21-22), that righteousness of God is counted to the believer by faith.

That 'righteousness of Christ' is not yours to maintain. You can do nothing to improve upon it. You are 'declared' righteous' even though you are not righteous.

This is why I said, the day you were born again, you were as righteous as you will ever be throughout eternity. Unless you believe you can improve on that righteousness.

Quantrill
 
Quantrill said:
We don't 'become' the righteousness of Christ by process.
Click to expand...

Brother read it again.

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
2 Corinthians 5:21

What does become mean to you?


John says it this way —


But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:12


JLB
 
Quantrill said:
We become the righteousness of Christ by declaration only when we exercise our faith in Christ.
Click to expand...
And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Isaiah 32:17

Romans 4:5 teaches us that God only awards Righteousness only on the basis of Faith in Christ and His Finished Work. Our Faith must be placed exclusively in Jesus, the Son of God, and Jesus, the Lamb of God to be awarded Righteousness. If we preach Jesus alone and ignore the Cross (the Lamb of God), that is another Jesus (2 Corinthians 11:4). This is sin, a insult to God!

Holiness and Sanctification are actually the same thing. Our holiness is obtained by faith and trust in Christ and what He did at the Cross. Without such Faith, there is no holiness, and there is no Salvation.

The gospel remains to be the only avenue through which Righteousness is revealed and experienced (Romans 1:16-17), and without the experience of Righteousness there is no Holiness, and without Holiness, no one can see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

When the Believer is proclaiming Christ while forsaking the Cross, this is a form of godliness because they are rejecting the power which is the Cross of Christ (1 Cor. 1:18). Because of the flesh, the Cross of Christ is an offence to most Believers after salvation. Therefore, grace stops and sin begins to much more abound.

The Scripture says, “14 If My People, who are called by My Name (Believers), shall humble themselves (humility), and pray, and seek My Face (the prayer of Repentance), and turn from their wicked ways (which proclaims the manner of true Repentance); then will I hear from Heaven (but not otherwise), and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land (God’s Prescription for spiritual sickness).” 2 Chronicles 7

James 4:10 says - Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

A humble Believer trust and Faith is placed and maintained exclusively in Christ and His Finished Work at Calvary Cross where the victory was won. This Believer is denying themselves by taking up their cross daily.

Luke 9:23 - And He said to them all, If any man will come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.

Denial of self is recognizing my moral and spiritual poverty; for I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwells no good thing (Romans 7:18). It is knowing and understanding that I am unable to serve God in my own will power, self-will, strength, ability, and power. We see this in the first three "Beatitudes."

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:3

Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Matthew 5:4

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Matthew 5:5

Take up his cross is seen in Matthew 5:6; Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

I am filled by God's provisions (GRACE) found in Christ by placing my Faith exclusively in Christ and Him Crucified (Believing who Jesus is, and what Jesus has done). Therefore I receive all the benefits of this "Resurrection Life" by understanding that we have been planted together [Christ and ourselves] in the likeness of His Death [Romans 6:5, Psalm 103:2].

99.9999% who declare themselves Christian are proclaiming Christ while forsaking the Cross...this is called APOSTASY! Our Faith most be placed and maintained exclusively in Christ and His Finished Work at Calvary Cross where the victory was won, i.e., The Blood of Jesus. No other way will we receive the Help of the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:2
 
Last edited:
Quantrill said:
That 'righteousness of Christ' is not yours to maintain. You can do nothing to improve upon it. You are 'declared' righteous' even though you are not righteous.
Click to expand...

You are declared righteous because you are righteous...
not because you are unrighteous.


Do you understand the law of faith; the righteousness of faith?



JLB
 
Last edited:
The Study of Righteousness - For with the heart man believes unto Righteousness...Romans 10:10

Psalms 33:4 and Proverbs 8:7-8 says, that every Word that God has ever spoken is in "Truth and in Righteousness." According to the gospel that Paul preached, "Righteousness is only awarded by God if our Faith is placed and maintained exclusively in Christ Jesus and the Finished Work of the Lamb of God at Calvary Cross (Rom. 4:5). Therefore, no man or woman can see, hear, or understand if "Righteousness is not awarded and will be operating from a make believe and pretend salvation that Jesus says that they may have a name but they are dead (Rev. 3:1). Everything they have and everything in their life will become a hinderance to them because of the "Law of sin and death (Rom. 8:2)." Confusion - conflict and death.

“Imputed Righteousness” is Righteousness that we do not earn, and cannot earn, and neither can we merit such. It is freely given to the believing sinner upon confession of Faith in Christ. It is the only type of Righteousness that God will accept, because it’s based on the perfect Righteousness of Christ. It is obtained by evidencing Faith in Christ and His Perfect Sacrifice of Himself.

https://thecrosswaychurch.sermon.net/Cross_Time/CrossTime/21347176
Righteousness Pt. 1

https://thecrosswaychurch.sermon.net/Cross_Time/CrossTime/21351276
Righteousness Pt. 2

https://thecrosswaychurch.sermon.net/Cross_Time/CrossTime/21355377
Righteousness Pt. 3

https://thecrosswaychurch.sermon.net/Cross_Time/CrossTime/21359308
Righteousness Pt. 4

https://thecrosswaychurch.sermon.net/Cross_Time/CrossTime/21365465
Righteousness Pt. 5

https://thecrosswaychurch.sermon.net/Cross_Time/CrossTime/21372293
Righteousness Pt. 6

https://thecrosswaychurch.sermon.net/Cross_Time/CrossTime/21376499
Righteousness Pt. 7

https://thecrosswaychurch.sermon.net/Cross_Time/CrossTime/21384659
Righteousness Pt. 8

https://thecrosswaychurch.sermon.net/Cross_Time/CrossTime/21389076
Righteousness Pt. 9

https://thecrosswaychurch.sermon.net/Cross_Time/CrossTime/21394620
Righteousness Pt. 10

https://thecrosswaychurch.sermon.net/Cross_Time/CrossTime/21398485
Righteousness Pt. 11

https://thecrosswaychurch.sermon.net/Cross_Time/CrossTime/21406092
Righteousness Pt. 12

https://thecrosswaychurch.sermon.net/Cross_Time/CrossTime/21406117
Righteousness Pt. 13

Pastor Curtis
 
The O/T Saints where saved by their Faith in God and by their Faith in that sacrifice they took to the high priest would forgive them of their sins. All whose faith was only in God and forsook the sacrifice went to hell.

New N/T Saints are doing the same as the O/T Saints. They say their faith is in Jesus (God), but have no faith in the atoning Sacrifice (the Lamb of God-Christ Crucified 1 Cor. 2:2). This is called Apostasy. Matthew 7:14, Matthew 7:21-23
 
Last edited:
iLOVE said:
The O/T Saints where saved by their Faith in God and by their Faith in that sacrifice they took to the high priest would forgive them of their sins. All whose faith was only in God and forsook the sacrifice went to hell.
Click to expand...

Thank goodness we have God’s word and don’t need to rely on the teachings of man.


By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
Hebrews 11:7



By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8



No animal sacrifices here.





JLB
 
JLB said:
No animal sacrifices here.
Click to expand...
By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks. Hebrews 11:4

I hope this helps.
 
JLB said:
By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
Hebrews 11:7
Click to expand...
Then Noah built an altar to the LORD, and took of every clean animal and of every clean bird, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. Genesis 8:20
 
iLOVE said:
By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks. Hebrews 11:4

I hope this helps.
Click to expand...

That was an offering, not a sacrifice for sin.

He offered it by faith.

The law is not of faith.


Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” Galatians 3:12



JLB
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top