Will the Real Antichrist Please Stand Up

[Exeter]

Sorry, but that above statement does not make sense to me.

Let's hope the penny drops soon.

Scripture presents Satan sealed in the bottomless pit SIMULTANEOUS with the beast and the false prophet being in the Lake of Fire, which as I said, as I said DavidT, which as I said, are DIFFERENT PLACES.

Anyone thinking Satan is the beast, or the false prophet, needs to pay more attention to the Scriptures because it is obvious from them that Satan, the Beast, and the False Prophet are THREE DISTINCT ENTITIES.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Anyone thinking Satan is the beast, or the false prophet, needs to pay more attention to the Scriptures because it is obvious from them that Satan, the Beast, and the False Prophet are THREE DISTINCT ENTITIES.

We know from scripture that Satan himself is able to posses a person :

Luk 22:3
"Then entered Satan into Judas..."

Which should be of no surprise since he also commands he demons to do the same.
When we speak of the " Beast " being Satan we are talking about the spiritual realm.

 

[for_his_glory]

Satan, the Beast, and the False Prophet are THREE DISTINCT ENTITIES.

I agree they are three different entities, as like Satan using the serpent in the garden, Satan will/is also working through the beast and false prophet who is the son of perdition.

 

[DavidT]

That was one of Jesus and His Disciples main activities, casting out evil spirits.

I may have more studying to do in Revelation & Ezekial, but I've been through demonology and Genesis 6 and all of that. All of those NT incidents of them casting spirits out of possessed people, where did they come from to be out there possessing all of the pople so much?

They are the spirits of the dead Nephilim. Let's look at

Mark 5
1 And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.

2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,

3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:

4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.../

Ok so he had an unclean spirit. No man could tame him. When spirits possess a person and have a body it's like they are superhuman. But when they are cast out and have no body to possess, they are generally benign and can't do much.

Matthew 12
43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.../

So it's a small leap to see that...they need a body.

Satan himself may not, but Satan is a fallen Angel and he is not a Nephilim.

Yet we also have Scripture like the following...

1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
KJV

1 Peter 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to Him That is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For, for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
KJV

Luke 16:22-26
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, "Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame."
25 But Abraham said, "Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence."
KJV


One of the problems I see with many Christian forums is how many do not understand per God's Word what happens after death of our flesh body. Many instead dwell on the old Jewish traditions about 'soul sleep', thus they do not believe a 'spirit' can mean a departed soul in the heavenly. The New Testament Scriptures reveals that we continue on to the heavenly dimension, and that we definitely DO NOT sleep in the ground.

Even in Ecclesiastes 12:5-7, Solomon revealed that at flesh death our flesh body goes back to the elements of material matter where it came from, and our spirit goes back to God Who gave it, showing that our spirit is not made of earth matter. He mentioned the idea of a "silver cord" being severed when that happens, suggesting that "silver cord" is what keeps the flesh and our spirit together while alive on earth. Yet the old Jewish tradition is that our 'soul' is part of our flesh body, and wrongly thinks it dies with our flesh body, and then both resurrected together on the last day. However, Lord Jesus showed in Matthew 10:28 that just is not so, but that our soul continues on to have life, that man cannot kill it, but only God can. In the Lazarus and rich man example Jesus gave in Luke 16, that is exactly what He showed.

We have 3 parts according to God's Word (Hebrews 4:12). Our soul with spirit can be separated from our flesh body.

2 Cor 5:1-8
5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
KJV


So at some point, the Bible student needs to read and study all... their Bible, and be careful of latching onto men's doctrines.

 

[DavidT]

The Jews are meticulous at checking bloodlines, for these matters though.

JLB

I don't really put much credibility in that claim.

The leftovers of the nations of Canaan crept in among the children of Israel long ago. And during the house of Judah's 70 years captivity to Babylon, they took wives of the Canaanites, the Jewish leaders and elders we are told in Ezra 9 being chief violators of that. Even the leftovers of the nation of Edom which God gave Israel to destroy crept in among the Jews in Judea and became religious Jews, king Herod himself being a Jew but born of the children of Esau.

And per the Jewish historian Josephus (100 A.D.), he showed how foreigners even crept in among the position of chief priest before Jesus' 1st coming.

Then there's the Kenites, a foreign people that lived in the lands of Canaan before the children of Israel were given the land. These eventually became the scribes of Israel in charge of keeping copies of God's written Word. No wonder they sided with the false Jews of the Pharisees that wanted to murder Lord Jesus:

1 Chron 2:55
55 And the families of the scribes which dwelt at Jabez; the Tirathites, the Shimeathites, and Suchathites. These are the Kenites that came of Hemath, the father of the house of Rechab.
KJV

Gen 15:18-21
18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.
KJV

I guess you picked the wrong person to bring that subject up with. I actually study my Old Testament history too, and not only The New Testament Books.

 

[DavidT]

Let's hope the penny drops soon.

Scripture presents Satan sealed in the bottomless pit SIMULTANEOUS with the beast and the false prophet being in the Lake of Fire, which as I said, as I said DavidT, which as I said, are DIFFERENT PLACES.

Satan doesn't go into the "lake of fire" until after... the "thousand years" of Revelation 20. I agree if that's what you're saying. But during the "thousand years", Satan is locked in chains in his pit prison, not in the "lake of fire". This is why Revelation 19 shows only the "beast" and "false prophet" go into the "lake of fire" on the day of Christ's 2nd coming.

Anyone thinking Satan is the beast, or the false prophet, needs to pay more attention to the Scriptures because it is obvious from them that Satan, the Beast, and the False Prophet are THREE DISTINCT ENTITIES.

I agree there's a great, great need for brethren to pay more attention to the Scriptures, and not men's traditions.

And no, I do not agree the "beast", and "false prophet", and "dragon" are separate entities. I don't buy into man's tradition of an 'unholy trinity' with that either, which is really kind of ignorant and a definite mark of having left The Scriptures of God's Word.


Many brethren forget that NO flesh born man is judged and sentenced to the future "lake of fire" until the Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation 20. That only happens after the future "thousand years".

But Satan ("dragon") and his angels, have... already been judged and sentenced to perish in the future "lake of fire". Those are the ONLY ones judged to perish so far, not even Judas has been judged to perish yet, even though Lord Jesus called him a 'son of perdition'.

This is how we know the "beast" and "false prophet" are not flesh born, because they go into the "lake of fire" at Jesus' coming, even though Satan ("dragon") does not yet. If they are not flesh born, then what does that mean? It means they are simply 'roles' the "dragon" (Satan) will play.

Satan will be the 'beast' king of Revelation 17:8-11, and the "another beast" of Revelation 13:11-14.

Rev 19:20
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
KJV

That working is actually what the "another beast" of Revelation 13:11 forward does, and there's no mention of a false prophet there.

Rev 13:11-14
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
KJV

That working of the "another beast" is exactly what the Revelation 19:20 passage is talking about with the working of the "beast" and the "false prophet". In that Revelation 13 Scripture, there is NO mention of a false prophet, nor another beast entity than the 1st beast system in Rev.13:1, which is a kingdom beast.

 

[JLB]

I guess you picked the wrong person to bring that subject up with. I actually study my Old Testament history too, and not only The New Testament Books.

I believe I picked the right person to bring that subject up.

We should be able to have an informative discussion.

I'm sure you would agree that the antichrist comes from amongst the people of Rome as well as being Jewish?


Maybe you have a different perspective?

 

[Mosheli]

Did you know brethren in Christ that the early Church fathers understood that the coming Antichrist at the end of this world is come from among the Jews? That is what several of the early Church fathers understood. Where did they get that idea of the Antichrist being presented as one of the Jews? Here is one place in Scripture where they got that idea...

I don't think the "Antichrist" will be a Jew, though the False Prophet might possibly be a Jew. As he is like a son of the Devil or seed of the serpent do you seriously think the Devil is going to favour a Jew? (More like the line of Cain or Ham.)
Daniel says prince of the coming people (ie Romans). Though one prophet says he is "Assyrian" (Armenoid like the Jews). The lion head could perhaps indicate Shemite or Aryan, but the leopard body and bears paws are not Shemite. He is born from the great sea (Atlantis? Space/Heavens?) The scorpion-locusts with hair like women are more like Germanic barbaians and WASPs. And compare Huxley's "blond beast". As you know the Nazis claimed Aryans are the master race in similarity to the Jews as the chosen people.
Was Nimrod a Jew? Is King Arthur? Was Alexander the Great? Was Napoleon? Was Hitler? Is Trump? These are all types of the "Antichrist".
Every culture sees itself as "in/men" and others as "out/nonmen", and non-Jewish cultures like Egypt reversed the biblical "dualistic" sides and favoured Cain etc over Abel etc (eg Osiris/Horus versus Seth).
He might have some Jewish blood so that the Jews will accept him as the messiah, but he won't be all Jewish. He has to be accepted by all nations, Aryans, Jews, etc. He will be accepted as the Mahdi (Islam), 12th Imam (Shiite), return of Quetzalcoatl (Mexican), Messiah (Jewish), return of Christ (Christian), return of Arthur (Arthurian). (Or else there will be mutliple individuals matching each of these who will be allied with him.)
Can you imagine a Jew exaulting himself above all that is called God? (Since Jews are usually avidly monotheistic, except for ones like Marx.) And a Jew not worshipping the God of his ancestors (Daniel) but worshipping the god of forces/fortifications (Daniel) and/or a foreign god and/or himself?
Revelation etc makes it clear the world will turn anti-Jewish anti-Christian, so how could the "AC" be a Jew?
Is Gog or "Rosh" Jewish? (Maybe Gog is abit like ZOG/JOG, but it is also like God, Goy (Jewish for gentile), Bog (God), Goth, Magog, etc.)
There is a prophecy of the popes that the last pope will be Jewish (Petrus Romanus I think is the name). But they are anti-Jewish ("Judas").
I have thought though that the "Antichrist" might possibly be a sort of Frankenstein Superman created from genes of various historical figures. Superman is a maybe a good example as he would be accepted by everyone.
Abimelech in Judges is a type of the antichrist (both 3 years), so maybe the AC could be a Jew, but Antiochus Epiphanes and others are also types of the "antichrist". Though Solomon has a link with 666.
So I don't think he will be a Jew, or not wholly, though I am not sure and he could be.

 

[DavidT]

I believe I picked the right person to bring that subject up.

We should be able to have an informative discussion.

I'm sure you would agree that the antichrist comes from amongst the people of Rome as well as being Jewish?


Maybe you have a different perspective?

No, I do not agree that the coming Antichrist-false-Messiah will come from Rome, nor that he will be Jewish. I already stated that I believe the coming pseudo-Messiah will be 'presented'... as being from Judah.

Likewise, I do not believe the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem will have found the real ark of the covenant, though they may 'claim'... they have found it, and thus 'present' a fake one.

 

[DavidT]

I don't think the "Antichrist" will be a Jew, though the False Prophet might possibly be a Jew.

I don't see the "beast" or "false prophet" of Revelation as separate entities from the "dragon" (or "another beast"). I see those as 'roles' that Satan himself will play, simply because that beast and false prophet goes into the "lake of fire" on the day of Christ's future return. And per God's Word, no flesh born man is judged and sentenced to perish in that "lake of fire" yet. Only Satan and his angels have, no flesh born has yet, because that judgment for those born in the flesh is only for the Great White Throne Judgment after the future "thousand years" reign of Rev.20.

Nor do I believe the coming pseudo-Christ will be Jewish, but only 'presented' as being from the tribe of Judah, in order to fulfill the Biblical requirement that Messiah would be born of the tribe of Judah, of the house of David.

As he is like a son of the Devil or seed of the serpent do you seriously think the Devil is going to favour a Jew? (More like the line of Cain or Ham.)

You believe Satan has actual flesh seed? I don't. Funny you should bring that up.

I already stated what I believe that points to the requirement to fulfill the Scripture of Messiah being from the house of David. Satan of course will not be born of the house of David, but 'presented' as such by the false Jews in Jerusalem that Daniel was shown about per Daniel 11 that will secretly be against the "holy covenant". Their purpose is not to institute true worship of God in future Jerusalem, but to substitute it with Lucifer worship.

Daniel says prince of the coming people (ie Romans). Though one prophet says he is "Assyrian" (Armenoid like the Jews). The lion head could perhaps indicate Shemite or Aryan, but the leopard body and bears paws are not Shemite. He is born from the great sea (Atlantis? Space/Heavens?) The scorpion-locusts with hair like women are more like Germanic barbaians and WASPs. And compare Huxley's "blond beast". As you know the Nazis claimed Aryans are the master race in similarity to the Jews as the chosen people.
Was Nimrod a Jew? Is King Arthur? Was Alexander the Great? Was Napoleon? Was Hitler? Is Trump? These are all types of the "Antichrist".
Every culture sees itself as "in/men" and others as "out/nonmen", and non-Jewish cultures like Egypt reversed the biblical "dualistic" sides and favoured Cain etc over Abel etc (eg Osiris/Horus versus Seth).
He might have some Jewish blood so that the Jews will accept him as the messiah, but he won't be all Jewish. He has to be accepted by all nations, Aryans, Jews, etc. He will be accepted as the Mahdi (Islam), 12th Imam (Shiite), return of Quetzalcoatl (Mexican), Messiah (Jewish), return of Christ (Christian), return of Arthur (Arthurian). (Or else there will be mutliple individuals matching each of these who will be allied with him.)
Can you imagine a Jew exaulting himself above all that is called God? (Since Jews are usually avidly monotheistic, except for ones like Marx.) And a Jew not worshipping the God of his ancestors (Daniel) but worshipping the god of forces/fortifications (Daniel) and/or a foreign god and/or himself?
Revelation etc makes it clear the world will turn anti-Jewish anti-Christian, so how could the "AC" be a Jew?
Is Gog or "Rosh" Jewish? (Maybe Gog is abit like ZOG/JOG, but it is also like God, Goy (Jewish for gentile), Bog (God), Goth, Magog, etc.)
There is a prophecy of the popes that the last pope will be Jewish (Petrus Romanus I think is the name). But they are anti-Jewish ("Judas").
I have thought though that the "Antichrist" might possibly be a sort of Frankenstein Superman created from genes of various historical figures. Superman is a maybe a good example as he would be accepted by everyone.
Abimelech in Judges is a type of the antichrist (both 3 years), so maybe the AC could be a Jew, but Antiochus Epiphanes and others are also types of the "antichrist". Though Solomon has a link with 666.
So I don't think he will be a Jew, or not wholly, though I am not sure and he could be.

To me, that's mostly speculation based on the false assumption that the coming pseudo-Christ is going to be born of flesh woman. There is nothing written in God's Word that reveals the coming pseudo-Christ will be born of the house of David, or as an Israelite, even though some of the early Church fathers believed he would be born of the tribe of Dan (I don't believe that as I have said before.)

 

[Mosheli]

Satan is not God he can't be in more than one place/person at a time except as a spirit. Though some see them as an "unholy trinity" (similar to the White Pope, Black Pope, Red Pope). Revelation clearly has two separate earth ans sea beasts at the same time. (Though it is unclear whether those beasts are powers or persons or both.)
All the unsaved dead are thrown in the lake of fire, the "AC" & FP are only the first.

I never said/meant that Satan does have flesh seed.

I don't assume he will be flesh born (eg I speculated he could be created from genes of historical figures), but I also certainly don't assume he won't be either. I don't see why he has to be non-flesh born or a literal son of the devil, it is more likely he will be just like all other historical pre-types. Perhaps he will have no known human father.

The OP said he would be Jewish and I was commenting on that. So we agree he probably won't be Jewish anyway (or not wholly).

 

[Prycejosh1987]

I believe the Antichrist is breathing today, but his identity is not known after alot of research, some say he will be a Pope, some say a Jew, others an american, and others a Muslim. The main point is who cares. The real point is you will not see the Antichrist if you remain faithful to Jesus Christ, and be ready for His appearing. When the Antichrist does show up, you will not want to be around when he does. Because the Antichrist will hate and always hates Christians with a devilish hatred.

 

[for_his_glory]

My question is why would the last antichrist, who is the son of perdition we read about in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12, be Jewish? IMO I do not think a Jew would even try to exalt himself above God, even though the tribe of Dan and Ephraim fell to idol worship and allowed God to be removed from them, Judges 18:30; 1 Kings12:25-33; Hosea 5:9, 11;Psalms 78:9-17, 65-67.

Here is something to consider.

In 2 Thessalonians we read that wicked be revealed and then destroyed when Christ returns on the last day. The wicked that will be revealed is mystery Babylon described in Rev 17. In Rev 18 we read about the fall of mystery Babylon as in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. This is past, present and future.

Now remember this happens on the last day after the seven trumpets and the ending of the seven vile judgements as at that time Christ returns and will take this beast and false prophet/son of perdition that has come to fruition that has always been a secret part of the fourth Empire spoken of by Daniel being the last one who thought it received a deadly would, but the deadly wound was healed. Think to yourself, who was this last Empire that was revived and even today persecutes God's own even to death making many martyr's for who will not renounce their faith in God.

The beast and it's false prophet are not Jews, nor are they Muslim, but a NWO, Their agenda includes total global control over political, military, economic, educational, religious and environmental systems for the deceptive purpose of ensuring global peace and prosperity as it reigns here on earth for 3/12 years during the timing of the seventh trumpet sounding that will use it's false prophet/son of perdition to deceive and sway others to fall away from the true God, 2Thessalonians 2:3, as many will worship this beast out of the earth and take its mark.

2Thess 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Thess 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders

Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

 

[for_his_glory]

I believe the Antichrist is breathing today, but his identity is not known after alot of research, some say he will be a Pope, some say a Jew, others an american, and others a Muslim. The main point is who cares. The real point is you will not see the Antichrist if you remain faithful to Jesus Christ, and be ready for His appearing. When the Antichrist does show up, you will not want to be around when he does. Because the Antichrist will hate and always hates Christians with a devilish hatred.

Unfortunately, those who are Christ own that are still alive at His coming on the last day were already told by Jesus in Matthew 24:15-21 to flee from this abomination that will stand in the Holy place in Jerusalem.

FYI, there is no pretrib Rapture of the church according to Matthew 24:29-31, but that is another topic so will not discuss it here.

 

[JLB]

No, I do not agree that the coming Antichrist-false-Messiah will come from Rome, nor that he will be Jewish.

Ok.

“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.” Daniel 9:26-27

• Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
• But in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.

Many - Strong's H7227 - raḇ​

masculine noun

1. captain, chief

II. רַב 49 noun masculine chief (Assyrian-Babylonian influence, compare rab DlHWB 609 b; Biblical Aramic רַב); — construct ר׳ Jeremiah 39:9 +; plural construct רַבֵּי [H7249 Jeremiah 39:13]; Jeremiah 41:1 (but see below); — especially רַבֿ טַבָּחִים chief of guardsmen (see טַבָּח), only as title of Babylonian officer Jeremiah 30:9, 10 + 15 times Jeremiah, 7 times || 2 Kings 25 (compare שַׁר הַט׳ in Gen [J E]); also † רַב הַחֹבֵל Jonah 1:6 chief of the sailors, i.e. captain; † in general כָּלרַֿב בֵּיתוֺ Esther 1:8, † רַ־סָרִיסָיוDaniel 1:3 (see סָרִיס), and so רַבֵּי מֶלֶךְ בָּבֶל Jeremiah 39:13, רַבֵּי הַמֶּלֶךְ Jeremiah 41:1 (late gloss; omitted by and || 2 Kings 25:25, so Hi Gf Gie). † The following titles of Assyrian -Babylonian officers are probably loan-words in Hebrew: רַב־מָ֑ג [H7249 Jeremiah 39:3], 13 usually chief soothsayer (see מָ֑ג), but = rab-mugi [? chief of princes] PinchesHast. DB. BAB-MAG;
[H7249 רַב־סָרִיס (compare Old Aramaic [Nineveh] רב סרס Lzb366), 2 Kings 18:17 (Assyrian; not in || [H7262 Isaiah 36:2]), Jeremiah 39:3, 13 (Babylonian), usually chief eunuch, but = rabû-ša-rêši, chief of the heads (the principal men) WklUnters. x. altor. Geschichte. 1889, Excurs. v, p. 138 (actually found as rubû-ša-ri-ešuPinchesAcad June 25,1892, 618), PinchesHast. DB. RAB-SARIS];
[H7262 רַב־שָׁקֵה (van d. H. רַבְשָׁקֵה) chief of the officers (?) (so probably Assyrian rab-ŠAḲ; šaḳû = high one; COT 2 Kings 18:17] KBii. 23 DlHWB 685 a TieleBab.-As. Geschichte. 497. 513 PinchesHast. DB. iv 191), 2 Kings 18:17, 19, 26, 27, 28, 37; 2 Kings 19:4, 8 = Isaiah 36:2, 4, 11, 12, 13 (twice in verse); Isaiah 36:22; 37:4, 8.]



“Many” here in verse 27 refers prophetically to a modern day Sanhedrin that will be in religious power in their day and will be involved in reconstruction of the Temple. These chief priests will be whom the antichrist, the prince who is to come will confirm a covenant with.


This will trigger the final “week” of Daniel’s prophecy and will pave the way for the final Temple to be built, with animal sacrifices being reinstated.






JLB

 

[DavidT]

Satan is not God he can't be in more than one place/person at a time except as a spirit. Though some see them as an "unholy trinity" (similar to the White Pope, Black Pope, Red Pope). Revelation clearly has two separate earth ans sea beasts at the same time. (Though it is unclear whether those beasts are powers or persons or both.)
All the unsaved dead are thrown in the lake of fire, the "AC" & FP are only the first.

Totally irrelevant, I see that as just more speculation from men's doctrines, especially that idea about an 'unholy trinity'. I've heard many brethren bring up that idea, even though it is nowhere written in God's Word. And anyone can also go on a symbology spree with the pope and the 666 label and not get any closer to what Christ is pointing to in His Revelation. It's easier to stick with the written Word of God, and more reliable.

I never said/meant that Satan does have flesh seed.

I don't assume he will be flesh born (eg I speculated he could be created from genes of historical figures), but I also certainly don't assume he won't be either. I don't see why he has to be non-flesh born or a literal son of the devil, it is more likely he will be just like all other historical pre-types. Perhaps he will have no known human father.

The OP said he would be Jewish and I was commenting on that. So we agree he probably won't be Jewish anyway (or not wholly).

Again, there's nothing written in God's Word that Satan will be born of flesh woman. The idea that Satan and angels have to somehow put on a human flesh body in order to appear on earth is just more speculation from men's doctrines. Those who believe that simply do not yet understand the difference between the two separate dimensions of existence written about in God's Word. Lord Jesus revealed it in John 3, so did Apostle Paul especially in 2 Corinthians 5 and 1 Corinthians 15. And so did God Himself reveal it beginning in Genesis. I am very comfortable talking about the difference between the flesh and Spirit, so I hope I'm not shocking anyone here.

 

[DavidT]

Ok.

“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.” Daniel 9:26-27

• Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
• But in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.

Many - Strong's H7227 - raḇ​

masculine noun

1. captain, chief

II. רַב 49 noun masculine chief (Assyrian-Babylonian influence, compare rab DlHWB 609 b; Biblical Aramic רַב); — construct ר׳ Jeremiah 39:9 +; plural construct רַבֵּי [H7249 Jeremiah 39:13]; Jeremiah 41:1 (but see below); — especially רַבֿ טַבָּחִים chief of guardsmen (see טַבָּח), only as title of Babylonian officer Jeremiah 30:9, 10 + 15 times Jeremiah, 7 times || 2 Kings 25 (compare שַׁר הַט׳ in Gen [J E]); also † רַב הַחֹבֵל Jonah 1:6 chief of the sailors, i.e. captain; † in general כָּלרַֿב בֵּיתוֺ Esther 1:8, † רַ־סָרִיסָיוDaniel 1:3 (see סָרִיס), and so רַבֵּי מֶלֶךְ בָּבֶל Jeremiah 39:13, רַבֵּי הַמֶּלֶךְ Jeremiah 41:1 (late gloss; omitted by and || 2 Kings 25:25, so Hi Gf Gie). † The following titles of Assyrian -Babylonian officers are probably loan-words in Hebrew: רַב־מָ֑ג [H7249 Jeremiah 39:3], 13 usually chief soothsayer (see מָ֑ג), but = rab-mugi [? chief of princes] PinchesHast. DB. BAB-MAG;
[H7249 רַב־סָרִיס (compare Old Aramaic [Nineveh] רב סרס Lzb366), 2 Kings 18:17 (Assyrian; not in || [H7262 Isaiah 36:2]), Jeremiah 39:3, 13 (Babylonian), usually chief eunuch, but = rabû-ša-rêši, chief of the heads (the principal men) WklUnters. x. altor. Geschichte. 1889, Excurs. v, p. 138 (actually found as rubû-ša-ri-ešuPinchesAcad June 25,1892, 618), PinchesHast. DB. RAB-SARIS];
[H7262 רַב־שָׁקֵה (van d. H. רַבְשָׁקֵה) chief of the officers (?) (so probably Assyrian rab-ŠAḲ; šaḳû = high one; COT 2 Kings 18:17] KBii. 23 DlHWB 685 a TieleBab.-As. Geschichte. 497. 513 PinchesHast. DB. iv 191), 2 Kings 18:17, 19, 26, 27, 28, 37; 2 Kings 19:4, 8 = Isaiah 36:2, 4, 11, 12, 13 (twice in verse); Isaiah 36:22; 37:4, 8.]


“Many” here in verse 27 refers prophetically to a modern day Sanhedrin that will be in religious power in their day and will be involved in reconstruction of the Temple. These chief priests will be whom the antichrist, the prince who is to come will confirm a covenant with.

This will trigger the final “week” of Daniel’s prophecy and will pave the way for the final Temple to be built, with animal sacrifices being reinstated.

JLB

Yeah, that's what I see from the Daniel 11 Chapter about the "vile person". He will make a "league" with a "small people", which per a later verse shows those will work with him against the "holy covenant" (quotes per KJV). He will then cause the sacrifices to end, and will then cause the "abomination that maketh desolate" to be placed. That specifically is about Jerusalem and deceived orthodox Jews and their leadership, not about a pope and Rome.

 

[JLB]

That specifically is about Jerusalem and deceived orthodox Jews and their leadership, not about a pope and Rome.

I never said anything about the pope.

The scripture I am discussing is Daniel 9:26-27, not Daniel 11.


And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.” Daniel 9:26-27

• And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

We know ”the people” who destroyed the city and sanctuary were the Romans.

The prince who is to come is a ruler or prince of people in that region.


Not necessarily the pope.





JLB

 

[DavidT]

I never said anything about the pope.

Others here have.

The scripture I am discussing is Daniel 9:26-27, not Daniel 11.


And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.” Daniel 9:26-27

• And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

We know ”the people” who destroyed the city and sanctuary were the Romans.

The prince who is to come is a ruler or prince of people in that region.


Not necessarily the pope.


JLB

Since you wrongly apply that one of Daniel 9:27 is going to be from Rome, then that suggests a pope. Many make that mistake because of only looking at that Daniel 9:26 verse about the Roman army.

Dan 9:25-27
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
KJV

The text above in purple applies to the final Antichrist for the very end of this world. Only the text in red applied to the historical Romans under general Titus that destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D. The "he" of the Daniel 9:27 verse is about the final Antichrist at the end in our near future.

Per Lord Jesus in Matthew 24:23-26, He showed the coming final Antichrist will be presented as Christ in Jerusalem. That together about the "vile person" events of Daniel 11 reveals the coming Antichrist will fulfill the Jewish requirement for their Messiah (suggesting at least he will be presented that way.)

Even in Daniel 2, men's doctrines make the mistake of thinking just because the final 'beast' piece of the feet of part clay and part iron has iron in it, they assume that means a revival of the old pagan Roman empire for the end that was represented historically by the "legs of iron".

The reality is that both the Book of Daniel and the Book of Revelation point to the final beast having power over it all, i.e., all the previous pieces of the Daniel 2 beast statue, because Daniel 2 reveals that when Jesus (that 'stone' not made with hands) comes to smite that beast upon its feet, all... of the pieces come tumbling down 'together'. The landscape is a "one world government", not a revived Roman Catholic empire under a pope.

Dan 7:7-8
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
KJV

That "little horn" is the same "vile person" described in Daniel 11, and also the beast king hinted at in Revelation 17:8-11. And for the end per Revelation 11:8, the landscape is false worship involving JERUSALEM, not Rome.

 

[for_his_glory]

This is what the Bible clearly reveals about the seventy weeks. From vs.24 to vs.27 was seventy weeks or 490 days (490 prophetic years when you add a day for a year principle), beginning with Ezra, Ezra chapter 1-6, rebuilding the temple to the time of the Messiah (Jesus Christ) being fulfilled in His birth, death and resurrection. In a sense it was a literal and spiritual temple that was being built. Ezra was teaching the people of the spiritual temple of God that indwelled in all that believed in God and of the coming of Messiah. There was actually a four hundred year span from Ezra till the birth of Jesus that God shut himself off from Israel because of their transgressions towards the Lord, Malachi Chapter 4, but saved a remnant that would believe in the coming of Messiah, Isaiah 10. As still today, God still waits for National Israel to repent and believe in the name of Jesus as they still follow Judaism.

Daniel 9:24-27 the Vision of the Seventy Weeks

Vs. 24 this verse shows us that the timing from Ezra to the cross was 490 days (490 Prophetic years) as within that time Ezra was reestablishing the law in Jerusalem until Jesus had fulfilled the end of transgression, made an end to sin, made reconciliation for iniquity and bring everlasting righteousness and to seal up the prophecy to fulfill parts of the law through the cross.

Vs. 25 from the time of the cross, which also means the last days, which includes what some like to separate and call “The Great Tribulation”, which is not mentioned anywhere in scripture and is not a separate event after the elect of God are caught up, but as the last days so we are in tribulation times until the end of the world as we know it, Acts 2:17; Hebrews 1:1,2; Matthew 24:4-31; Mark 13:24-31; Luke 21:5-36. These are just some of the scriptures that support that we will go through all things of Rev Chapter 6-21. Everyone will have opportunity to come unto salvation through Jesus Christ if they would only believe until the door of salvation is closed when Jesus calls us and we meet him in the clouds, which after this time no one can be saved, Matthew 25:10.

Vs.26 after 434 years that end in the year AD29 shall Messiah be cut off. Jesus was crucified after he was baptized in AD 29 three and a half years later. Jesus was cut off (killed) by the people of the Romans under Vespasian their prince that the Pharisees, Sanhedrin and the high priest who have favor with that destroy the city and the sanctuary (meaning Christ) and the end thereof shall be with a flood (Gods wrath) that will put an end to abominations by desolation or in other words a ruin to evil deeds. Daniel 9:27 explains the definitions of desolation of abominations or the ruin of evil deeds. There is no actual Desolations of Abominations where a so called Antichrist (emphasis on the capitol "A") will take a literal throne, but the desolation will be when the son of perdition, being the false prophet/last antichrist, tries to take his throne in Jerusalem, Daniel 11:36-45. Gods’ word never defines one great Antichrist, but says there are many antichrists, 1John2:18; 11 Thessalonians 2:1-12; Revelation 11:7. The seven years that some call the seven year tribulation means three and a half years beginning with the first six seals being the beginning of sorrows (first woe). The last three and a half years starting with the (second woe) with the sounding of the first trumpet and ending with the seventh trumpet that includes everything else written in Revelations that includes the time of Christ return for His Bride in Rev 19 up to the end when Satan is cast into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet and ends with the new Jerusalem being ushered down as then we will be with the Lord forever.

Vs.27 the 70th seven began with Christ baptism in AD 29 and three years later at the end of the first half of the 70th seven sacrifices and offering ceased because Christ hung on the cross. From the giving of the law in 458BC when Ezra went to establish the law, or to rebuild the spiritual city right to the cross where the first 69 sevens. The 70th seven is from the time of the cross until Jesus comes back in the air to call his Bride home and for the overspreading of abominations he will make desolate, or make an end to all who would not believe.

During its long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times. The last siege and destruction of the 2nd Temple and the wall was in 70AD as a revolt led by Titus as he broke through the walls and destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem. The wall and the Temple were never rebuilt, nor will it be in the future. The Temple mount laid waste until the Dome of the Rock was built on it in 691AD by the caliph Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan. The Islamic control over the Dome of the Rock will never surrender the original temple mount back to the Jews.

The last decree to build and restore Jerusalem, including the building of the second Temple that took 49 days/49 prophetic years, came around 538BC with the decree given to Ezra by King Cyrus. Through much oppositions the city, walls and the second Temple were completed on the third day of the month Adar, which was in the sixth year of the reign of King Darius II around 417BC as he reigned from 423BC to 404BC, Ezra Chapter 1-6. This was part of the vision given to Daniel as the full prophecy given to him is found in Daniel Chapters 9-12.

During the first six trumpets we read all the destruction that will befall earth and its inhabitants during God's great wrath being poured out into the world on those who are none of Christ as they refuse to repent. This will be worldwide which will cause much chaos and great fear in the hearts of those who have no understanding, Hosea 4:6, 7. They will be seeking a type of savior, yet rejecting the very Savior, Christ Jesus, who wants to save them.

During the sounding of the seventh trumpet they will accept this deceptive savior who is the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12, who will take his seat in Jerusalem on the very Temple Mount where the Dome of the Rock sits and even now is being refurbished for the son of perdition to take his literal seat. He will try and rule the nations for 3 1/2 years causing all to bow down and take its mark as he promises peace and safety displaying lying signs and wonders claiming he is God. Those who refuse will be taken captive and dealt with as many Christians will either become a slave or die a martyr's death, Rev 13.

Matthew 24:29-31; Rev 19:11-21, At the end of the 3 1/2 years of the beast and its false prophet, Christ returns with His army (warring angels) from heaven and fights the final battle destroying the beast and false prophet by the spirit (word) of His mouth and the brightness of His coming, 2 Thessalonians 2:8, casting both into the lake of fire. Then will Christ destroy the remnant being those who followed after the beast out of the earth from every nation that have always followed and obeyed the beast.

Rev 19,20 This is the time of the gathering of the saints when Christ sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather all who are His that are asleep in the grave and alive at His coming, Matthew 24:29-31 as He then binds Satan for a time so he can not interfere with the gathering. Once we are gathered to Him Jesus lets Satan loose for a time to gather his army, which I believe to be his demonic angels, against the camp of the saints, but God consumes his army by fire sent down from heaven and Satan is then cast into the lake of fire. All those who have now been slain by Jesus are gathered with the rest of the dead and face God's final judgment as their names are not found written in the Lamb's book of life and are cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.