Wine...fermented or UNfermented?

[jculp123180]

Re: Wine

People don't usually drink heavily in the morning. It's not that in the morning, wine miraculously has a lower alcohol content, or whatever it is that you're suggesting.

I think you're being intentionally obtuse but regardless, they were accusing the apostles of being drunk and they knew it was morning. Peter said this because it took most of the day to get drunk with the low alcohol content in wine.

If you met Jesus, you'd call him a drunk. Not me. The pharisees called Jesus a drunk. You and the pharisees refuse to recognize that wine is a gift from God that a person can enjoy without being a drunk.

Nobody's calling Jesus a drunk. There's a difference between getting drunk and being a drunk and God's word says don't be drunk, no indefinite article (that would be "a drunk")

Yeah, like your daily experience is representative of society as a whole.

In response to this quote from you:

Drinking to get drunk is mostly limited to teens and college-age drinkers. And, even that is a result of living in an anti-drinking culture. They weren't taught to drink with discipline and they see drinking as a form of rebellion and liberation.

my experience is probably more representative than yours, but this isn't really a debate.

You are helping send society to Hell by fighting things that are right, at the expense of fighting things that are wrong. Zionist are the modern day pharisees.

Society doesn't go to hell, people who do not accept Christ go to hell. If you want to start calling me names like pharisee, go ahead, it says more about your argument than it does mine. God's word still says don't get drunk, you have yet to tell me how I am fighting things that are right.

Paul was talking about religious matters when he was talking about meat sacrificed to idols. But, neither Paul or Jesus avoided drinking out of rationalization that they'd cause people to stumble. That would be the pharisees.

So you're telling me that the principle he was teaching was only about religious behavior? This is getting hilarious. Stop rationalizing and realize that there's a problem in this country with the misuse of alcohol and that Christians should be distancing themselves from it.

You're the one who brought up the issue of respect. I'm only pointing out that you are not teaching people to respect Christians. You're only teaching people that Christians are hypocrites. That's not a smokescreen but a direct rebuttal to your argument.

Yes, but you're saying that "All anti-drinking Christians do is teach non-Christians that Christians are hypocrites. " like I'm somehow supposed to say that there's nothing wrong with it just so that the world won't think that those who do a wrong thing are hypocrites. That's hypocritical if anything is. Just because some Christians drink doesn't make it right. The same goes for overeating and the other things you listed, Christians to those things but that does not make them right. You keep asserting that "Some Christians drink and the Bible teaches that drinking is okay" but refuse to acknowledge the Bible's instruction to not be drunk with wine.

 

[Poke]

Re: Wine

I think you're being intentionally obtuse but regardless, they were accusing the apostles of being drunk and they knew it was morning. Peter said this because it took most of the day to get drunk with the low alcohol content in wine.

In every culture in the world today, heavy drinking is usually done late in the day. This is because during the day, people are still waking up and not in the mood for merriment. People are doing their work during the day. Miller Time comes when the day's work is done. Unless you have good reason to think otherwise, the only point Peter was making is that it was early in the day, before people normally drink heavily.

Your argument that it took most of the day to get drunk with low-alcohol wine is nonsense. If you drink a glass of wine, in about an hour, nearly all the alcohol will be gone from your blood. Drinking all day long doesn't cause accumulation over the day.

Nobody's calling Jesus a drunk. There's a difference between getting drunk and being a drunk and God's word says don't be drunk, no indefinite article (that would be "a drunk")

Remember, the Pharisees called Jesus a drunk. You, like them, refuse to distinguish between light/moderate and excessive drinking.

You keep asserting that "Some Christians drink and the Bible teaches that drinking is okay" but refuse to acknowledge the Bible's instruction to not be drunk with wine.

No one has defended drunkenness.

 

[Scott]

You don't think they had an abundant supply of chlorinated tap water

Whatever you drink... don't drink that.

 

[KnarfKS]

Great, now you are going to die from chlorinated water, or sent to hell for drinking alcohol. :-D :-D :-D

 

[jculp123180]

KnarfKS is really a 13yr. old girl from Venezuela. I know this for a fact.

 

[Preacher Boy]

I am not going to argue because it seems to be a back and forth thing with neither swaying to the others side...so say i this:

Why do we get as close to sin as possible?

As ambassadors for Christ we are to be an example to a heathen world...

God's Word commands separation!

I am a Born Again Child of the King!

When I publicize that, the world has an expectation of me as a Christian on how I should be living.

How i should dress.

What language i should use.

Places I should be a part of.

...etc...etc...

So because i take my liberty in Christ too far these heathe see me and are turned off to the Saviour because i am a "hypocrite" based on their expectations...hence paul's admonision not to be a stumbling block.

Let us lay aside every weight and sin >>two different things; A sin is definately bad and to be avoided, weight --- not really a sin but could be veiwed as one by them that are without and cause us to slow down in the race that is set before us.

We need to walk circumspectly and be watchful in all things...so we can win the world to Christ and still enjoy this life we have on earth.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Consumption of alcohol is a sin and Jesus drank wine that was watered down to an extreme degree.

ALCOHOL IS A SCOURGE AND PLAGUE ON SOCIETY AND DRINKING IT IN MY OPINION IS JOINING HAND IN HAND WITH DEATH AND DESTRUCTION.....

NO GOOD COMES FROM DRINKING...... EVER..... THINK OF ONE TIME WHEN YOU DRANK AND GOOD RESULTS CAME FROM IT....

THINK OF ALL THE BAD TIMES - DEATH, ADDICTION, RUINED HOMES, INSANITY, WIFE BEATING, LYING, ADULTERY, IRRESPONSIBILITY, CIRHOSIS, HANGOVERS, FIGHTING, CURSING, CIGARETTE SMOKING, ETC, ETC, ETC THAT HAS RESULTED FROM ALCOHOL.....

ALCOHOL IS ONE OF SATAN'S GREATEST TOOLS IN THE LAST DAYS TO LEAD MAN ASTRAY (remeber the wine of Baylon?) AND TRUE BELIEVERS IN THE WORD NEED TO STAND AGAINST THIS DEMONIC POISONING OF MAN!

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

Should we [Christians] or should we not drink alcohol? To what degree is the “wine†in the Bible alcoholic, is it even fermented at all? Both questions are good questions.

It seems to me jculp123180’s John MacArthur article post makes some very good arguments against the belief that today’s wine is anything thing like “biblical†wine.

I cannot help but comment on this:

John MacArthur is a liar for inviting people to believe that Jesus didn't drink alcohol or that he made non-alcoholic wine for the wedding feast.

It is indisputable that the wine in the Bible was very capable of producing drunkenness. It is indisputable that Jesus offended the Pharisees with his alcohol consumption. People who didn't want to drink alcohol in the Bible avoided wine.

So tell me how an ad Hominem (or the fallacy of personal attack) of John MacArthur is helpful or edifying in anyway? Please also tell me how we are supposed to believe your statements when it seems more emotional then factual?

It is indisputable that the wine in the Bible was very capable of producing drunkenness. It is indisputable that Jesus offended the Pharisees with his alcohol consumption. People who didn't want to drink alcohol in the Bible avoided wine.

Is it really “indisputable,†the mere fact that John MacArthur, a rather reputable and scholarly man, puts up a dispute makes your claim incorrect. Lets suppose you are correct, please provide the evidence to the contrary.

In any event I think Preacher Boy makes the best point when he says:

Why do we get as close to sin as possible?

As ambassadors for Christ we are to be an example to a heathen world...

God's Word commands separation!

That is exactly correct! We [Christians] are to be examples and are to be set apart from the world.

I have heard some say alcohol may be healthy but in all reality a proper diet and exercise is health as well. Lets suppose alcohol has a few helpful benefits. When one puts the numerous potentially harmful effects next to the few helpful effects it seems quite clear that the wiser choice is to abstain from alcohol consumption.

One final note: No matter where you stand on this issue please try to be respectful, loving and compassionate to those who disagree with you. If you are like me and believe it is better to abstain from alcohol try not to have a self-righteous attitude toward those who choose to consume alcoholic beverages.

 

[airdrop]

I'm not gonna lie, this topic is silly. Is there nothing better to discuss than the alcohol content of wine in history vs now?

 

[Soma-Sight]

I'm not gonna lie, this topic is silly. Is there nothing better to discuss than the alcohol content of wine in history vs now?

This may be the most important topic on the board at this time.

 

[Solo]

Here's to not drinking alcohol! .....clink clink......gulp, gulp, gulp.....aahhh....fresh cold water.....gotta love it! :D

 

[Veritas]

I know these verse aren't about wine, but I think the concept may apply here...

Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol's temple, won't he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.

1 Corinthians 8:9-13

So what do you guys think? Does this maybe apply here? I mean, I know this is about food that could be considered bad because it's leftovers from what has been sacrificed to idols. But couldn't you substitute the wine for food and substite the alcohol for the sacrificial stuff and come up with a similar application? If its a bad example for your particular brothers and sisters in Christ, don't drink alcohol.

 

[John the Baptist]

I know these verse aren't about wine, but I think the concept may apply here...

Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol's temple, won't he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.

1 Corinthians 8:9-13

So what do you guys think? Does this maybe apply here? I mean, I know this is about food that could be considered bad because it's leftovers from what has been sacrificed to idols. But couldn't you substitute the wine for food and substite the alcohol for the sacrificial stuff and come up with a similar application? If its a bad example for your particular brothers and sisters in Christ, don't drink alcohol.

**
Of course it fits! Matthew 4:4 Yet, (Proverbs 23:31-35) WINE that is 'fermented' is not this that is causing your weak bro. to stumble, but you, the drinker of it! Proverbs 28:9-10

Think of some blasphemous teaching even saying that this satanic drink is the actual blood of Christ. And many of these become acholics, plus the rest of their documented debauchery stuff.

Christ NEVER made pure water into satan fermented stuff! If one thinks that, they are doing at [present], no better than was Cain in Genesis 4:7. (hopefully they are just still taking bible studies like Hebrews 5:13, Matthew 28:20? yet, if not, then these ones have a way of spiritual surender to go, before even their baptisim as I see it! See Matthew 23:15)

 

[rkc]

Just a funny little thought...I posted about the Noah's ark story a while back...PERHAPS this answers it. I know when I drink my perception is really wacked...so maybe the Noah's ark story was just a result of too much "grape juice" ha ha ha.... :

 

[John the Baptist]

Just a funny little thought...I posted about the Noah's ark story a while back...PERHAPS this answers it. I know when I drink my perception is really wacked...so maybe the Noah's ark story was just a result of too much "grape juice" ha ha ha.... :

****
Naw, just one of the reasons for it!
Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 & Ecclesiastes 3:15
--John