Women Pastors

[GodspromisesRyes]

pricilla was a saint of God, no one questions that but she was not a pastor or a teacher, she was with her husband and serviced the saints and was faithful, no one said women arent used of God, they arent given postions of authority over the saints or to teach in church.

 

[Lewis]

She was a teacher

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

the word of God does not call her a teacher, it only mentions her once with anything to do with what you are thinking and she was with her husband EXPOUNDING on the word of God more correctly. It does not even use the word for teaching. sisters in the Lord are allowed to talk about the Lord in their lives, they are not allowed to be in the postion of teacher or pastor or any church elder postion. you call her a teacher but the word of God does not.

 

[Dave Slayer]

Can men become women pastors?

 

[Tina]

Can men become women pastors?

Only if he wants to pastor an empty church !


:biglaugh ..........

 

[Lewis]

It has been excepted for many years that she was a teacher. But in any event, I will not change, and there is nothing anyone can say to me that will make me change my mind about woman pastors. And I mean nothing.
It has been excepted for many years that she was a teacher. But in any event, I will not change, and there is nothing anyone can say to me that will make me change my mind about woman pastors. And I mean nothing.

 

[Tina]

.

Titus 2:1-5

But as for you, speak the things which are proper for sound doctrine: that the older men be sober, reverent, temperate, sound in faith, in love, in patience; the older women likewise, that they be reverent in behavior, not slanderers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things  that they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be blasphemed.



:amen

 

[Cornelius]

And I mean nothing.[/color]

Well, there you go then, not even the Word of God can change you when you are that certain that NOTHING will change your opinion. Scary place to be. :o

 

[Cornelius]

4. Acts 18:26: He (Apollos) began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him,4. Acts 18:26: He (Apollos) began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately. and explained to him the way of God more adequately.

Here we see Priscilla WITH her husband, and obviously following the lead of her husband 4. Acts 18:26...... they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.

People that think that woman are to have nothing to do with spreading the gospel are obviously in error in their understanding of what Paul is talking about. First we never see Priscilla usurping authority over her husband. She is at his side as she is suppose to be. They were in harmony as one. If this was not so, Paul would not have written about them. They were obviously a team worth mentioning, and Paul, who was the one who wrote about woman being silent in the church, was obviously seeing nothing wrong with the way these two saints did the work of the Lord. Obviously she was not teaching anything over the head of her husband. She was in submission.

 

[Cornelius]

In all my time on forums nobody has been able to prove from Scriptures that woman may indeed be teachers .

All they always do is to expect people to accept their human reasoning.

 

[Lewis]

And I mean nothing.[/color]

Well, there you go then, not even the Word of God can change you when you are that certain that NOTHING will change your opinion. Scary place to be. :o

Here we go again, Paul was talking to Hebrew converts, just like I am accused of not paying close attention to Bible detail. I say the same thing about you. You have proven nothing to me. The Old book allows women to be leaders of men, and then in the New book it is not, I ain't buying it. Did you not read that article that I posted ? I know that you did, and you still don't see it. Paul was talking to tradition, and you all just don't get it. Then you completely ignore what a prophetess does, they are ordained to speak God's Word to anybody, why because they are a prophet of God. God has even sent men to women prophets, in the Bible, so what are you all talking about, like I said you have proven nothing.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

1Cr 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

this is not to hebrew converts it is to a gentile church and agrees with what he writes to " hebrew converts". It is accepted no where that pricilla was a " teacher" except maybe in churches where women usurp authority and need to excuse themselves of what they do.

C good job on the last couple posts! Now the real question is what is it about this doctrine that makes people so badly desire to have it there way and ignore the scriptures?

 

[lovely]

In the assembly, it is the men who should be leading. Elders are men, Deacons are men, Pastors are men, teachers are men. Women are teaching only other women and children in the assembly, if the body calls for it. They are NOT to usurp authority over the men. A woman, who is a prophet, should be the first to be exampling these things, and she should be found in order in the assembly and under the authority of her 'qualified' elders. If she is called on by her elders to share her testimony, or pray, then she should have her head covered for the glory of God. The gifts should also be found in order, under the elders headship.

Outside the assembly women are to share the Gospel freely to all, teach good things freely to all, serve the widows, orphans, the sick, and be hospitable, etc. She should be submissive to her own husband, while as a believer being submissive to her brothers and sisters with humility.

Just my thoughts on this updated topic. The Lord bless all of you.

 

[whirlwind]

It has already been expressed and shown from scripture that women can be prophetesses and can prophesy. That is not an office of the church with authority. No one said that God does not use women at all, it is that He uses women as women annointed of the Holy Ghost and men as men.

What church? What office? Is it one I attend? Who holds office there?

• 1 Corinthians 10:16-17 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of christ? For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.
  
  11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
  
  [list:3jra9xor]Paul "would have us know." I agree with his authority in this but understand...it is Paul speaking here.

[/list:u:3jra9xor]

Christ is the head of the man child and the man child is the head of the woman....the church. Both genders are of the woman/church and both genders are of the man child. Christ shows us this here.....

• Revelation 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

The seven candlesticks are the church and the church is the woman...filled with male and female. Notice that Christ was "girt about the paps." Paps is ONLY used for the female breast. What are we being shown? The body of Christ is both male and female. The head is Christ. Are we told what the feet, what His hands, who His eyes are? Are we shown where the body is divided into male/female or are we told....there is no male/female?

If a man who is called to be a teacher, usurps His calling and goes to make himself an apostle that is wrong He is not called to apostleship. If a woman makes herself a teacher in church or a pastor she usurps authority because God does not call women to be leaders over men in the church. It is important with scripture to let the word clarify with each issue the proper purpose and use and meaning, we cannot blanket over things and say that prophesy is the same as being a teacher or pastor, they are not the same thing. If they were the same they woul dnot have differnt gifts and offices and purposes and uses.

Would we not be judging others in making that determination? Do we know the heart of God in calling others? We are to discern if that person of authority has been called by what they do, by their fruits. Discern and act accordingly but not judge.

Now yes women are part of the temple of God, yes we are filled with the Holy Spirit and God will use each of us as He calls and gifts, but He cannot and will not call or gift us in an area that His word already condemns. If we ever recieve a word in any form that is contrary to the scriptures we must believe the scriptures and throw away the new word given. People have been taught to consider that those were the times they were in as if the word of God was written to fit the century it was written down in, and not the truth that it is the eternal word of God. What was true then is true now, the proper behavior, purpose, callings, gifts, offices, will of God does not change from generation to generation.

His Word does not condemn on the issue of teaching...we are ALL to teach what the Holy Spirit teaches us. Man's understanding and man's teaching of His Word condemns women to not teach, not God.

• 1 Corinthians 12:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
  
  12:28-30 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

Did it say....God hath set men to be apostles, men to be pophets and teachers but the woman can sit in church and listen to them?

I agree with you that the Word does not change.

I tis very conveniet to try to take all verses written specifically to women and how we should behave and what postion we have and do not and say that is speaking to the bride and not to literal women but if we did that we must then also take every scripture for a man and say it represents christ or the manchild and then we are left with no scriptures as to how to be men or women or fathers or mothers or husbands or wives. The flesh of people does not want to submit to its proper authorities above it but the word of God is full of proper order.

Consider that Paul, a definite authority of the true church wrote his own teachings. He pointed out when it was Paul speaking and when it was the Holy Spirit.....

• 1 Corinthians 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
  
  7:25 Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.
  
  1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
  
  3:14 These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly:
  
  4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

When Paul wrote, "I suffer not a woman to teach," it was Paul's writing. I used to see him as a misogynist but now I understand what he taught. The woman is the church and the man is the man child.

 

[Lewis]

So let me get this right, women in the pulpit are going to hell, and instead of doing a service to God like winning souls for the Lord, God does not recognize anything that they do behind the pulpit ? I just have a question when a queen tells men what to do, what is that ? Just asking. So now the Bible says obey the laws of the land, so if that land has a queen, are the men to tell her to shut up and sit down, because you are a women ? Just asking I am trying to see something here.

 

[whirlwind]

1Cr 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

this is not to hebrew converts it is to a gentile church and agrees with what he writes to " hebrew converts". It is accepted no where that pricilla was a " teacher" except maybe in churches where women usurp authority and need to excuse themselves of what they do.

That verse is said in IRONY. Paul is chastising men for their backward thinking. Paul is saying...you men say the women should be silent in church, you men say women are not permitted to speak and THEN Paul says.....

• 1 Corinthians 14:36 WHAT? CAME THE WORD OF GOD OUT FROM YOU? OR CAME IT UNTO YOU ONLY?

The verse you quoted SHOULD NOT be used to keep a woman from teaching. Quite the opposite. Paul, after making fun of those silly men, said....

• 14:38-39 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. Wherefore brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

As far as women excusing themselves....Are you offering your apology? Are you excusing the wonderful teaching you have shared...for you do teach and you do a wonderful job! :yes

C good job on the last couple posts! Now the real question is what is it about this doctrine that makes people so badly desire to have it there way and ignore the scriptures?

I guess it depends on how one understands the Scriptures. I want it to be God's way and He shows me that we are to share what He tells us. That, to me, is teaching.

 

[Lewis]

Here is another one, where it appears that Paul is reading back a letter or quoting it. 1 Cor 14:36 when speaking about this woman issue. So read on.

Can Women be Pastors?

Today’s Question: A question came up last night between my fiancé and myself about 1 Corinthians 14:34-35. This is from the New American Standard: "Let the women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak. But let them subject themselves just as the Law also says. And if they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home. For it is improper for a woman to speak in church." Is it okay for a woman to be a pastor or to even speak out in church? This happened to come up after a guest speaker came to our church and taught something that contradicts how we have always believed. This made us question this scripture. Thanks for your help.

Brian and Lynne

Bible Answer: Remember this letter was written in response to the many questions the church was asking in another letter. 1 Corinthians 7:1 says, "Now for the matters you wrote about…" The Corinthian church wrote a letter asking Paul questions. I believe the passage you quoted was actually Paul quoting one of the false teachings going on in the Corinthian church.

Notice the entire language of the statement about women being silent.

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only. (1 Cor 14:34-36, KJV)

After this chauvinistic statement Paul exclaims "What?" Paul is almost beside himself when he reads back this statement from the letter written to him. Paul is not the one making the statement. Paul is quoting from the letter. The fact Paul exclaims, "What? came the word of God out from you?" shows that the statement came from the Corinthian church, and they were claiming to exclude the women from speaking based on the Law, which they claimed was the word of God.

Of course when you recognize that Paul did not teach the Law but Grace, you realize Paul would never use the Law to prove anything. The author of this statement about women remaining silent used the Law as the basis of this practice. "But they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law." Paul would never use the Law to enforce any behavior. Paul taught that the Law was nailed to the cross (see Ephesians 2:15 and Colossians 2:14), so why would he appeal to the Law to ban women? Paul did not agree with the statement but questioned it.

In response to this ban on women, Paul says, "Let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command" (14:37). Paul taught and wrote that the women in Corinth could prophesy with their heads covered (ch 11). He also wrote, "For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged " (14:31). All can prophesy. That includes women!

Paul taught the equality of women and men. He recognized cultural behaviors such as the ones in Corinth, (example: head covered), but he also says, "In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman" (11:11). He differentiates between cultural norms and equality in the Lord. His famous statement in Galatians should remove all doubt as to whether or not Paul was a "woman hater" as some have claimed.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (Gal 3:28)

Concerning the roles of women in the Lord, there is no ban from the ministry. A woman can do everything a man can do as far as the ministry is concerned. There should be equality in the ministry. I believe a woman can pastor.

Some will argue that Jesus never ordained women to be His apostles, thus, setting aside women from being in the ministry. If you argue against women being pastors by appealing to the fact that the apostles were men, then you must ban slaves and Greeks from the ministry, because Jesus only chose free men who were Jews to be His apostles. I haven’t heard any Gentiles willing to step down from the ministry, because the Apostles were Jews.

Here is the way I interpret passages, which appear to discriminate. I will not use the Bible to discriminate against anyone. I always look to use the scriptures to liberate people, not place them in bondage. I think it is time to quit holding to interpretations that put people in bondage. We must be willing to admit that we don’t know everything, and be willing to side in with grace. Let our conscience guide us when we are confused about certain passages.

A follow-up Question: Hey Tom, I got another question for you. This time I want to know what is the deal with female pastors. I can understand how you can twist around what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 to defend your beliefs, but what about 1 Timothy chapter 2? Now I believe that men and women are equal in God's eyes, but clearly each gender has it's role when it pertains to church leadership and authority. Please read over these texts, and let me know what you come up with this time.

Daniel

Follow up Bible Answer: You wrote, "Clearly each gender has it's role when it pertains to church leadership and authority." God's word is logical, under what logic can you apply that forbids women leadership in the church? Is there something in the female species that keeps them from communicating the Word effectively (do females have problems talking), or perhaps something in their psyche that keeps them from organizing ministry effectively (are females dumb)? I do not get it. There is nothing in church leadership requirements (preaching, organizing, counseling) that keeps women from effectively doing their jobs. We are not asking them to be football players. There is nothing physical about church leadership that keeps women from doing the job. About the passage in 1 Timothy 2:12-15.

I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearingâ€â€if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

This is not dealing with "church" authority but authority in the "home." The context proves it. Paul uses Adam and Eve as the example of authority. What relationship did Adam and Eve have? They were husband and wife, not pastor and sheep. Since there is no Greek word for husband and wife, the word "man" and "woman" is also translated "husband" and "wife", and based on the context these words should have been translated as such.

Another Follow-up Question: As usual, some pastors, like yourself, flip scripture to suit their own needs or those in the church. But as usual you leave out 1 Tim 3:2 which says, "A Bishop must be the husband of one wife." How can a woman be a "husband"?

Robert

Follow-up Bible Answer: When you look clearly at the statement in 1 Tim 3:2 it is a prohibition against polygamy.

Someone might say, “But there is no mention of women being a bishop.†You must understand the culture in Paul's day. The ancient world was male-dominated; so rather than crusade against it, the apostles accommodated themselves to it, but they had hoped that the gospel would change society. In the meantime, however, Paul knew society would not accept women as pastors so he presumes that the pastor would be a male.

Now the reverse is true. Most societies accept the equal rights of women, yet many churches are fighting the reverse culture war by keeping women from equality in the church. I think those churches that refuse to accept the full role of women in the church actually hinder the gospel by showing prejudiced against women. Doing this is contrary to the message and life of Christ who was progressive in His view of women.

Every historian agrees at this point: that Jesus was way ahead of society when it came to the equality of women. Yet, ministers are often way behind society when it comes to the role of women. I think it is a shame that governments, corporations, schools, and other institutions, are leading the way for equality, while many churches lag behind. The traditional church has been a bad example in this area.
http://www.tbm.org/can_women_be_pastors.htm

 

[lovely]

I think people are complicating this issue. Here is a simple, to the point, answer to this question. There is copied in full due to permission, and encouragement, from Desiring God.

By John Piper. © Desiring God. Website: desiringGod.org

Should women become pastors?

The Bible draws a connection between the home and the church. Just as there is a role distinction at homeâ€â€where the husband is called to lead the familyâ€â€there is also one at church.

At home men are proving their fitness to be elders (pastors), and at church they are the ones who are given that role. Paul says explicitly, "I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man" (1 Timothy 2:12). And those two functionsâ€â€teaching and exercising authorityâ€â€are the functions of the elder.

It's not a problem for a woman to minister in hundreds of ways in the church, but the office of leadership and teaching of men is preserved for spiritual and godly men.

Why didn't Jesus choose women as some of his apostles?

The Twelve are all men. That was intentional, because they are all given incredible authority to found the church. They are like pastors, only they have more authority than pastors.

But Jesus did call women, and he called them into significant ministry. Read the beginning of Luke 8 or see the role of women at the Resurrection. Jesus broke significant taboos in the way that he elevated the role of women. It was counter-cultural to have Mary sitting at his feet learning like a rabbinic student at the feet of his teacher. And it was counter-cultural for him to have women so closely attending him, providing for his needs, and for him to be so merciful to the women of the street.

Jesus was pro-woman to the max. But he did not choose women to be apostles. That wasn't because he was enslaved to his times. It was because, in coherence with the rest of the Bible (Genesis 1-2, Ephesians 5, 1 Corinthians 11, and 1 Timothy 2), he believed that it would be healthy for the church and the family if men assumed the role of Christ-like, humble, caring, servant-leaders, and if the women came in alongside with their respective gifts to help carry his leadership through according to those gifts.

So I sympathize with any confusion on this matter, and I pray that the Lord would give you light to see that it's really not very complicated: God has ordained that in the home and in the church men assume a special role of responsible leadership and teaching.

 

[Lewis]

lovely, you might be right this is getting complicated, but before I bow out, somebody explain 1 Cor 14:36, Paul is quoting or reading a letter, because why else would Paul say 1 Cor 14:36 ?
After this chauvinistic statement Paul exclaims "What?" Paul is almost beside himself when he reads back this statement from the letter written to him. Paul is not the one making the statement. Paul is quoting from the letter. The fact Paul exclaims, "What? came the word of God out from you?" shows that the statement came from the Corinthian church, and they were claiming to exclude the women from speaking based on the Law, which they claimed was the word of God.

 

[whirlwind]

A woman received the first message from Christ after his resurrection and delivered it. Mary lingered at the tomb. Christ spoke to her and said, ‘Go tell my brethren’ (John 20-17).

It was a woman who first told the Good News, of the resurrection of Christ. And we hang everything on His resurrection, she is the first to see that empty tomb and ran back to tell the others.

I rest my case

And...what a case it is to rest!

Lewis, I overlooked the above and want to bring what you wrote to the attention of others. It says everything!

After Jesus told A WOMAN to "go tell My brethren," which to me says a great deal, He said....

• John 20:18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the LORD, and that He had spoken these things unto HER.

Jesus opened the eyes and ears of Mary and then told her to take what He had spoken to the others. This is just as when we, whether we are male or female, have the Holy Spirit open our eyes and ears. What He speaks to us we are to take to the brethren.....TEACH!