Women Pastors

[Lewis]

You all really should read this.



Should Women Preach?

by Sarah Bishop



There are scriptures that apparently oppose women’s preaching, thus creating some argument and sentiment against women’s laboring in that capacity. Because of such sentiment they are not only hindered in a measure from doing good they could do, but also their work is made doubly hard.

The following scriptures are the ones that give the above-mentioned impression: 1 Tim. 2:12-13, “But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed then Eve.†1 Cor. 14:33-36, “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home; for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.â€Â

In the light of these statements some people honestly and sincerely believe that it is against the teaching of the Bible for women to preach. This is much harder to meet than insincere persecution. But, let us follow the scriptures on this subject through the Old and New Testaments.

2 Kings 22: 13, 14 tell that King Josiah sent Hilkiah the priest saying, “Go ye, enquire of the Lord for me, and for the people†concerning the words of a book they had found. So Hilkiah went until Huldah, the prophetess, the wife of Shallum, and they communed with her, and she said unto them, “Thus saith the Lord God of Israel.†We see here that although Hulda was a man’s wife, she was a prophetess of the Lord and God spoke through her to his people.

Also see Judges 4th chapter. Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, judged Israel at the time spoken of in this chapter. “And she dwelt under the palm-tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in Mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment. And she sent and called Barak the son of Abinoam out of Kedesh-naphtali and said unto him, Hath not the Lord God of Israel commanded saying Go and draw toward Mount Tabor, and take with thee ten thousand men of the children of Naphtali and of the children of Zebulun? And I will draw unto thee to the river Kishon Sisera, the captain of Jabin’s army, with his chariots and his multitude; and I will deliver him into thine hand. And Barak said unto her, If thou wilt go with me, then I will go: but if thou wilt not go with me, the I will not go. And she said, I will surely go with thee: notwithstanding the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honor; for the Lord shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. And Deborah arose, and went with Barak to Kedesh.†By reading on we find that the Lord discomfited Sisera, and he was defeated, and that he fled and was killed by a woman. So God not only spoke through this woman to his people, but he through her led this great army to success.

Another example of woman’s leadership is that of Miriam, Moses’ maiden sister, who was a prophetess, and who took part in leading the children of Israel out of Egypt. Aaron recognized Miriam’s part in the great undertaking and said, “Hath the Lord indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us?†(see Exod. 15:20 and Num. 12:2). Note also at Christ’s birth that a man and a woman both blessed him. Simeon came by the Spirit into the temple and took Christ in his arms and blessed him. Also Anna a prophetess coming in the same instant gave thanks to the Lord and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem (see Luke 2: 27, 28, 38).

A woman received the first message from Christ after his resurrection and delivered it. Mary lingered at the tomb. Christ spoke to her and said, ‘Go tell my brethren’ (John 20-17).

Some may say that God spoke through women under the old dispensation, but that he does not under the new, that we have ministers in place of prophets now. Is it not true that a prophet and a minister are practically the same? The prophets of old looked forward to Christ and foretold future events mainly, while the ministers of today look back to a crucified Christ and expound his written Wordâ€â€in both cases instruments used by God in speaking to his people.

In regard to the new dispensation ministry we shall notice it first in prophecy. We shall call your attention to Joel 2: 28-33. “And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and y our daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions. And also upon the servants and upon the handmaidens in those days will I pour out my spirit.â€Â

Let us turn to Acts 2: 12-22: “But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice and said unto them, Ye men of Judea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and harken to my words; For these are not drunken as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day, But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy,†etc.

Peter made quotation of Joel’s prophesy, and said it was fulfilled on that day. We see here that God poured out his Spirit on men and women alike that both should prophesy in the new dispensation.

Acts 21: 8-9 speaks of Philip the evangelist, who had four daughters, virgins, who prophesied. In Phil. 4:3, Paul said, And I entreat thee also, true yokefellow help those women which labored with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other fellow laborers whose names are in the book of life.†So Paul had both men and women in his company.

In 1 Cor. 11:4, 5 we read, “Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoreth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoreth her head,†etc. This implies however, that both men and women prophesied in Paul’s time.

1 Cor. 14:3, “He that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.†We see here that “prophesy†covers the ground of preaching to an audience. Gal. 3: 27-29, “For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, . . . there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.†1 Cor. 12: 13 reads, “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body,†etc. Verse 18, says “now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.†So we see that if women are baptized into the body, they are part of the body and have their God given functions to perform. Verses 8-12: “For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; to another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another diverse kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: but all these worketh that one and selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.â€Â

The Bible does not teach a set of gifts for women differing from those for men.

“But,†you will ask, “what does Paul mean by those scriptures which say that women shall not preach?â€Â

The Scriptures nowhere state that women should not preach. But Paul told the women at that particular time to keep silent. 1 Cor. 14:33 reads, “God is not the author of confusion, but of peace.†These women must have been out of God’s order and making confusion. So Paul commanded them to keep silent that the confusion might be stopped. The men also were making some confusion, and Paul told them to keep silent in the church when there was no one to interpret (see 1 Cor. 14:28).

In 1 Tim. 2:12, Paul says, “I suffer not a womanto teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, . . . for Adam was first formed, then Eve.†To my mind he was here reproving those women who were usurping authority or ruling over their husbands and others, which is not consistent with the Spirit of Christ.

http://www.geocities.com/chogrefmov/article220.html

 

[Grams]

I do not see it in my KJB

And I believe my bible from cover to cover.

A women can teach children, but that is all.

according to jewish tradition the age of a child ends at age 13, not the current society of age 18, reaserch this and you will see, I'm of hebrew descent.

Hello Jasoncran,
Thanks for your reply
Like I said, I do not see it in my king James Bible.
I thought it was the age of 20. Depending on what your talking about I guess.
I know things were quite different in the old testament .

Jasoncran, were do you find the age of 13 ? When and were ?

 

[jasoncran]

I do not see it in my KJB

And I believe my bible from cover to cover.

A women can teach children, but that is all.

according to jewish tradition the age of a child ends at age 13, not the current society of age 18, reaserch this and you will see, I'm of hebrew descent.

Hello Jasoncran,
Thanks for your reply
Like I said, I do not see it in my king James Bible.
I thought it was the age of 20. Depending on what your talking about I guess.
I know things were quite different in the old testament .
bar mitsvah and bat mitsvah are very old jewish traditions kept since the times of christ i believe. those are done at age twelve or thirteen at times, my dad was raised in the temple and my grandmother still goes to the temple, they have jewish radio sermons and she listen to them in miami, fl
i'm born again, even the three days that concerned the resurecction of christ has jewish tradition, the jews believed that the soul could return to body within three days, even until this day. fyi even the hanukah was celebrated by christ(festival of lights)

 

[Lewis]

One more time,You all really should read this.



Should Women Preach?

by Sarah Bishop



There are scriptures that apparently oppose women’s preaching, thus creating some argument and sentiment against women’s laboring in that capacity. Because of such sentiment they are not only hindered in a measure from doing good they could do, but also their work is made doubly hard.

The following scriptures are the ones that give the above-mentioned impression: 1 Tim. 2:12-13, “But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed then Eve.†1 Cor. 14:33-36, “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home; for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.â€Â

In the light of these statements some people honestly and sincerely believe that it is against the teaching of the Bible for women to preach. This is much harder to meet than insincere persecution. But, let us follow the scriptures on this subject through the Old and New Testaments.

2 Kings 22: 13, 14 tell that King Josiah sent Hilkiah the priest saying, “Go ye, enquire of the Lord for me, and for the people†concerning the words of a book they had found. So Hilkiah went until Huldah, the prophetess, the wife of Shallum, and they communed with her, and she said unto them, “Thus saith the Lord God of Israel.†We see here that although Hulda was a man’s wife, she was a prophetess of the Lord and God spoke through her to his people.

Also see Judges 4th chapter. Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, judged Israel at the time spoken of in this chapter. “And she dwelt under the palm-tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in Mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment. And she sent and called Barak the son of Abinoam out of Kedesh-naphtali and said unto him, Hath not the Lord God of Israel commanded saying Go and draw toward Mount Tabor, and take with thee ten thousand men of the children of Naphtali and of the children of Zebulun? And I will draw unto thee to the river Kishon Sisera, the captain of Jabin’s army, with his chariots and his multitude; and I will deliver him into thine hand. And Barak said unto her, If thou wilt go with me, then I will go: but if thou wilt not go with me, the I will not go. And she said, I will surely go with thee: notwithstanding the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honor; for the Lord shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. And Deborah arose, and went with Barak to Kedesh.†By reading on we find that the Lord discomfited Sisera, and he was defeated, and that he fled and was killed by a woman. So God not only spoke through this woman to his people, but he through her led this great army to success.

Another example of woman’s leadership is that of Miriam, Moses’ maiden sister, who was a prophetess, and who took part in leading the children of Israel out of Egypt. Aaron recognized Miriam’s part in the great undertaking and said, “Hath the Lord indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us?†(see Exod. 15:20 and Num. 12:2). Note also at Christ’s birth that a man and a woman both blessed him. Simeon came by the Spirit into the temple and took Christ in his arms and blessed him. Also Anna a prophetess coming in the same instant gave thanks to the Lord and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem (see Luke 2: 27, 28, 38).

A woman received the first message from Christ after his resurrection and delivered it. Mary lingered at the tomb. Christ spoke to her and said, ‘Go tell my brethren’ (John 20-17).

Some may say that God spoke through women under the old dispensation, but that he does not under the new, that we have ministers in place of prophets now. Is it not true that a prophet and a minister are practically the same? The prophets of old looked forward to Christ and foretold future events mainly, while the ministers of today look back to a crucified Christ and expound his written Wordâ€â€in both cases instruments used by God in speaking to his people.

In regard to the new dispensation ministry we shall notice it first in prophecy. We shall call your attention to Joel 2: 28-33. “And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and y our daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions. And also upon the servants and upon the handmaidens in those days will I pour out my spirit.â€Â

Let us turn to Acts 2: 12-22: “But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice and said unto them, Ye men of Judea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and harken to my words; For these are not drunken as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day, But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy,†etc.

Peter made quotation of Joel’s prophesy, and said it was fulfilled on that day. We see here that God poured out his Spirit on men and women alike that both should prophesy in the new dispensation.

Acts 21: 8-9 speaks of Philip the evangelist, who had four daughters, virgins, who prophesied. In Phil. 4:3, Paul said, And I entreat thee also, true yokefellow help those women which labored with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other fellow laborers whose names are in the book of life.†So Paul had both men and women in his company.

In 1 Cor. 11:4, 5 we read, “Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoreth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoreth her head,†etc. This implies however, that both men and women prophesied in Paul’s time.

1 Cor. 14:3, “He that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.†We see here that “prophesy†covers the ground of preaching to an audience. Gal. 3: 27-29, “For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, . . . there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.†1 Cor. 12: 13 reads, “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body,†etc. Verse 18, says “now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.†So we see that if women are baptized into the body, they are part of the body and have their God given functions to perform. Verses 8-12: “For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; to another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another diverse kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: but all these worketh that one and selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.â€Â

The Bible does not teach a set of gifts for women differing from those for men.

“But,†you will ask, “what does Paul mean by those scriptures which say that women shall not preach?â€Â

The Scriptures nowhere state that women should not preach. But Paul told the women at that particular time to keep silent. 1 Cor. 14:33 reads, “God is not the author of confusion, but of peace.†These women must have been out of God’s order and making confusion. So Paul commanded them to keep silent that the confusion might be stopped. The men also were making some confusion, and Paul told them to keep silent in the church when there was no one to interpret (see 1 Cor. 14:28).

In 1 Tim. 2:12, Paul says, “I suffer not a woman to teac, nor to usurp authority over the man, . . . for Adam was first formed, then Eve.†To my mind he was here reproving those women who were usurping authority or ruling over their husbands and others, which is not consistent with the Spirit of Christ.

http://www.geocities.com/chogrefmov/article220.html

 

[Sparkey]

Am I wrong?
Isn't Jesus called "Good Teacher" or "Rabbi" in the Bible?
Isn't this more about having disciples who sit at the feet of a Master than merely talking?

Women are told to not be playing "master" over men, right?
Men are told not to "lord it over" women, right?

We are all cautioned about the leaven of the Pharisees. Legalism about God's Godlines (and Guidelines) isn't what loving each other as we would have ourselves treated and loved means. Sure, there are many who rightly teach the Scriptures and the Word of truth but if we stretch the meaning of "teaching" why can't we stretch the meaning of "women" too?

I mean that I'd like to be considered part of the Church. The real church, that is. The church that is to be married to Christ Jesus. I'd like to walk in such a way that I am crowned by love and compassion and satisfied in my deepest desires from Him whom I praise and praise and am sooo falling in love with. I want to admonish each member of the body of Christ that this calling is unto each of us. That we may all together praise Him and not be forgetful of all His benefits!

Lord God, unite us and knit us together and if there be any unseemly thing in us, then by Your hand it is removed. Not by us, no. Let each member turn his / her all onto You. Father, You are the master fisherman. We are but Your net. Reach in quickly Lord and remove anything that will hurt us. We trust you. We know Your voice. Remember that Your sheep are timid and cause us to lie down in our trust for You as You accomplish every good thing in us. Doctrine will be established. BY YOU. That we may sing for Joy and be glad all our days!

Hallelujah! It is so good that we are able to turn to You with all of our cares and concerns, Father. Keep every one, Lord. Every one. Me also.

~Sparrow

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

we should be very careful to avoid what the actual scripture says to explain them away by saying something was a tradition or that times were differnt then. We are to be according to the word of God in all times, not to be as the times, cultures, and what is common in our day.

It is true that the word of God showed women should cover their head when they pray and prophecy. That is scripture paul gives clear defence for show this is what is correct to do and that there is no tradition that allowed contention over the issue. Just because most christian women in this country today do not obey this scripture does not mean it no longer applies. I do cover my head- as well as my husband uncovers his when praying or prophesying. I also have fellowship in person and spread all over with women who likewise have been moved of God to obey the scriptures and cover their heads as well. if more women would consider these things and obey they would find the purpose and blessing in doing such a thing but many are either taught it just means our hair, or they dont want to look differnt then other people so they do not consider doing it.- Likewise the scriptures on women teaching and having authority over the man in the church are given and are not said to be tradition or custom of the time and a scriptural reason was given. Prophesy is not and has never been the same as being a teacher(which is a elder postion in the 5 fold ministry). Prophesy is a gift of the Holy Ghost and we are all given gifts to be used for the good of the whole body. A gift is not the same as an authoritative office. If women are speaking by the use of the gift that is in them(not postion but gift) then it is no longer her speaking but it is the Holy Spirit giving divine revelation or utterance through her. Further a prophesy or tongue etc does not teach. One cannot mix prophecy and teaching as if they are the same in scripture and say well women prophecy so they can also teach. We should not desire to be like most, or like the culture we are in. We should desire to be holy set apart obedient chaste eternal women of God.

 

[Lewis]

Paul told women to cover their heads because that was the culture at that time in that region. And yes Paul did speak to the traditions on certain things. Women pastors are being used by God, and they are here to stay. And God does and will continue to ordain them.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

Paul told women to cover their heads because that was the culture at that time in that region. And yes Paul did speak to the traditions on certain things. Women pastors are being used by God, and they are here to stay. And God does and will continue to ordain them.

1Cr 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having [his] head covered, dishonoureth his head.


1Cr 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with [her] head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

>This is a statement of fact by paul, he is not saying this is tradition or custom he is declaring it does dishonour the head.

1Cr 11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

>this is a direct command if the women isnt covered let her be shorn.

1Cr 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover [his] head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

>this again paul is saying that a man ought not do and why- the reason why is not custom or tradition or their day and age it is scriptural, it is because he is the image and glory of God.

1Cr 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on [her] head because of the angels.

>again another reason why a woman should do this that has nothing to do with their custom or tradition or day and age.

1Cr 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

>again another reason and paul gives to show this is not a custom or tradition.

In the same way God cannot ordain a person to what He has forbid in His word.

 

[kenmaynard]

The bible was written by human men. Those human men were sexist and viewed women as nothing more than property. It is just that simple. Women aren't inferior to men.

 

[Lewis]

Paul told women to cover their heads because that was the culture at that time in that region. And yes Paul did speak to the traditions on certain things. Women pastors are being used by God, and they are here to stay. And God does and will continue to ordain them.

1Cr 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having [his] head covered, dishonoureth his head.


1Cr 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with [her] head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

>This is a statement of fact by paul, he is not saying this is tradition or custom he is declaring it does dishonour the head.

1Cr 11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

>this is a direct command if the women isnt covered let her be shorn.

1Cr 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover [his] head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

>this again paul is saying that a man ought not do and why- the reason why is not custom or tradition or their day and age it is scriptural, it is because he is the image and glory of God.

1Cr 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on [her] head because of the angels.

>again another reason why a woman should do this that has nothing to do with their custom or tradition or day and age.

1Cr 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

>again another reason and paul gives to show this is not a custom or tradition.

In the same way God cannot ordain a person to what He has forbid in His word.

And if that is the case, women can't wear shorts in the summer, and they can't wear anything above their ankles, and they can't have a career of their own, and they can't run a big company, because they will be over men. These are Christian women that I am talking about. Come on give me a break

 

[Dave Slayer]

I believe women pastors are okay as long as they are in authority over other women and not men. Allthough I must admit, men can learn a lot from women. :yes

 

[Lewis]

I believe women pastors are okay as long as they are in authority over other women and not men. Allthough I must admit, men can learn a lot from women. :yes

Hmmm, but nobody seems to have a problem with a Queen having authority over men. And guess what in Biblical times you would bow down to her, or you would be dead. So if God chooses a woman to be a pastor, and He does choose woman, she becomes a leader, and if their is men in the church, she is over them. In that article I showed you a Biblical truth, and it still fell on deaf ears. That article proved that woman can lead a church, and people still can't see it. I guess because they don't want to be wrong.

 

[Dave Slayer]

[quote="Dave Slayer":3576vhlp]I believe women pastors are okay as long as they are in authority over other women and not men. Allthough I must admit, men can learn a lot from women. :yes

Hmmm, but nobody seems to have a problem with a Queen having authority over men. And guess what in Biblical times you would bow down to her, or you would be dead. So if God chooses a woman to be a pastor, and He does choose woman, she becomes a leader, and if their is men in the church, she is over them. In that article I showed you a Biblical truth, and it still fell on deaf ears. That article proved that woman can lead a church, and people still can't see it. I guess because they don't want to be wrong.[/quote:3576vhlp]

I haven't looked too much into it. I will bring this up with a couple pastors that I know who are much more knowledged in this area. I guess my question is this. Where in all of scripture are there women who are in a position of authority over men in the Church? I wonder why God never appointed female apostles? I don't care about articles, I care about Biblical truth. :yes

Please respond by posting specific scriptures that show women in authority of men in the Church. No articles, just scripture.

Bottom line, I just want what is Biblical. :amen

 

[whirlwind]

whirlwind. I do not currantly believe that discussing the bible between believers back and forth in conversation is teaching. If it is in this setting then i pray God correct me because it is not ok for women to teach or preach.

Dear GodspromisesRyes....every sentence you write is teaching us, the us being men and women. God is blessing you with insight and you, as you should, are TEACHING what you are being taught. The correction from God would be needed if you didn't do so.

 

[whirlwind]

Paul told women to cover their heads because that was the culture at that time in that region. And yes Paul did speak to the traditions on certain things. Women pastors are being used by God, and they are here to stay. And God does and will continue to ordain them.

1Cr 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having [his] head covered, dishonoureth his head.

Who is the "head" of man, (the head of the man child)? Christ. A man child should not prophesy with Christ covered, with the True Word covered or the true Word of God not spoken.

1Cr 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with [her] head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

Who is the "woman?" The one that brings forth the man child! [Revelation 12:5] Who is her head? The man, the man child and he is "the image and glory of God."

>This is a statement of fact by paul, he is not saying this is tradition or custom he is declaring it does dishonour the head

1Cr 11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

>this is a direct command if the women isnt covered let her be shorn.

If the woman, the church, isn't covered with Christ then she will be cut off.

1Cr 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover [his] head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

The woman, the church, is the "glory of the man," of the man child, the man child that is the "image and glory of God."

>this again paul is saying that a man ought not do and why- the reason why is not custom or tradition or their day and age it is scriptural, it is because he is the image and glory of God.

1Cr 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on [her] head because of the angels.

The fallen angels want the woman, (the church) and the man child, (the saints)......

• Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
  
  Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them; and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

>again another reason why a woman should do this that has nothing to do with their custom or tradition or day and age.

1Cr 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

>again another reason and paul gives to show this is not a custom or tradition.

In the same way God cannot ordain a person to what He has forbid in His word.

There were many Biblical men with long hair (Samson comes to mind). So, something more is being said.

• Psalms 140:7 O God the LORD, the strength of my salvation, Thou hast covered my head in the day of battle.

Christ is the head of the man child, the man child is the head of the woman. The Holy Spirit teaches the man child and the man child teaches the woman, the church. The woman, the church is covered by the man child, and he is her "glory." The man child needs no covering, no long hair, as He is the "image and glory of God."

There is no gender involved.

 

[jasoncran]

[quote="Lewis W":3qndo6a0]Paul told women to cover their heads because that was the culture at that time in that region. And yes Paul did speak to the traditions on certain things. Women pastors are being used by God, and they are here to stay. And God does and will continue to ordain them.

1Cr 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having [his] head covered, dishonoureth his head.


1Cr 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with [her] head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

>This is a statement of fact by paul, he is not saying this is tradition or custom he is declaring it does dishonour the head.

1Cr 11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

>this is a direct command if the women isnt covered let her be shorn.

1Cr 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover [his] head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

>this again paul is saying that a man ought not do and why- the reason why is not custom or tradition or their day and age it is scriptural, it is because he is the image and glory of God.

1Cr 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on [her] head because of the angels.

>again another reason why a woman should do this that has nothing to do with their custom or tradition or day and age.

1Cr 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

>again another reason and paul gives to show this is not a custom or tradition.

In the same way God cannot ordain a person to what He has forbid in His word.

And if that is the case, women can't wear shorts in the summer, and they can't wear anything above their ankles, and they can't have a career of their own, and they can't run a big company, because they will be over men. These are Christian women that I am talking about. Come on give me a break[/quote:3qndo6a0]my point exactly. paul spoke from a jewish concept of that time.

 

[justvisiting]

Honestly, the issue with me is not whether women can teach or preach. I stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free.
The only real concern I have is...do they teach right. There are countless stories of women both in the Bible and in present day that have done wonderful things for God. Corrie Tenboom. Other women on radio that have given their testimonies of faith. As for the correction part. Some male pastors may just benefit, if they listened to some knowledgable women...cause there are a lot of crank preachers and teachers out there.
The only real issue with Paul was not that women couldn't prophesy or speak...it was merely the matter of covering their head with a veil. Are we under Jewish tradition? Most of us come from Gentile backgrounds. I certainly don't care about the veil. All I care about is the accuracy of the prophecy and the accuracy of the teaching. If they can teach better than the man...then I will listen to them. This is more God honoring.
Rom 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:
Rom 16:2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.
Rom 16:3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:
Rom 16:4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.
Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
God is no respecter of persons. He is a respecter of faith. :yes

 

[jasoncran]

when you are in church and the pastor (woman or man) is preaching the truth, and your are blessed by it or convicted, or recieve a deep revalation, who is doing that? What forces changes man's heart or convicts but uses people to do it?
answer this honestly and you wont have a problem with women pastors.

jason

 

[Lewis]

Good post's Jason and Justvisiting

One More Time for you who just don't get it.

You all really should read this.



Should Women Preach?

by Sarah Bishop



There are scriptures that apparently oppose women’s preaching, thus creating some argument and sentiment against women’s laboring in that capacity. Because of such sentiment they are not only hindered in a measure from doing good they could do, but also their work is made doubly hard.

The following scriptures are the ones that give the above-mentioned impression: 1 Tim. 2:12-13, “But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed then Eve.†1 Cor. 14:33-36, “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home; for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.â€Â

In the light of these statements some people honestly and sincerely believe that it is against the teaching of the Bible for women to preach. This is much harder to meet than insincere persecution. But, let us follow the scriptures on this subject through the Old and New Testaments.

2 Kings 22: 13, 14 tell that King Josiah sent Hilkiah the priest saying, “Go ye, enquire of the Lord for me, and for the people†concerning the words of a book they had found. So Hilkiah went until Huldah, the prophetess, the wife of Shallum, and they communed with her, and she said unto them, “Thus saith the Lord God of Israel.†We see here that although Hulda was a man’s wife, she was a prophetess of the Lord and God spoke through her to his people.

Also see Judges 4th chapter. Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, judged Israel at the time spoken of in this chapter. “And she dwelt under the palm-tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in Mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment. And she sent and called Barak the son of Abinoam out of Kedesh-naphtali and said unto him, Hath not the Lord God of Israel commanded saying Go and draw toward Mount Tabor, and take with thee ten thousand men of the children of Naphtali and of the children of Zebulun? And I will draw unto thee to the river Kishon Sisera, the captain of Jabin’s army, with his chariots and his multitude; and I will deliver him into thine hand. And Barak said unto her, If thou wilt go with me, then I will go: but if thou wilt not go with me, the I will not go. And she said, I will surely go with thee: notwithstanding the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honor; for the Lord shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. And Deborah arose, and went with Barak to Kedesh.†By reading on we find that the Lord discomfited Sisera, and he was defeated, and that he fled and was killed by a woman. So God not only spoke through this woman to his people, but he through her led this great army to success.

Another example of woman’s leadership is that of Miriam, Moses’ maiden sister, who was a prophetess, and who took part in leading the children of Israel out of Egypt. Aaron recognized Miriam’s part in the great undertaking and said, “Hath the Lord indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us?†(see Exod. 15:20 and Num. 12:2). Note also at Christ’s birth that a man and a woman both blessed him. Simeon came by the Spirit into the temple and took Christ in his arms and blessed him. Also Anna a prophetess coming in the same instant gave thanks to the Lord and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem (see Luke 2: 27, 28, 38).

A woman received the first message from Christ after his resurrection and delivered it. Mary lingered at the tomb. Christ spoke to her and said, ‘Go tell my brethren’ (John 20-17).

Some may say that God spoke through women under the old dispensation, but that he does not under the new, that we have ministers in place of prophets now. Is it not true that a prophet and a minister are practically the same? The prophets of old looked forward to Christ and foretold future events mainly, while the ministers of today look back to a crucified Christ and expound his written Wordâ€â€in both cases instruments used by God in speaking to his people.

In regard to the new dispensation ministry we shall notice it first in prophecy. We shall call your attention to Joel 2: 28-33. “And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and y our daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions. And also upon the servants and upon the handmaidens in those days will I pour out my spirit.â€Â

Let us turn to Acts 2: 12-22: “But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice and said unto them, Ye men of Judea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and harken to my words; For these are not drunken as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day, But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy,†etc.

Peter made quotation of Joel’s prophesy, and said it was fulfilled on that day. We see here that God poured out his Spirit on men and women alike that both should prophesy in the new dispensation.

Acts 21: 8-9 speaks of Philip the evangelist, who had four daughters, virgins, who prophesied. In Phil. 4:3, Paul said, And I entreat thee also, true yokefellow help those women which labored with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other fellow laborers whose names are in the book of life.†So Paul had both men and women in his company.

In 1 Cor. 11:4, 5 we read, “Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoreth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoreth her head,†etc. This implies however, that both men and women prophesied in Paul’s time.

1 Cor. 14:3, “He that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.†We see here that “prophesy†covers the ground of preaching to an audience. Gal. 3: 27-29, “For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, . . . there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.†1 Cor. 12: 13 reads, “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body,†etc. Verse 18, says “now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.†So we see that if women are baptized into the body, they are part of the body and have their God given functions to perform. Verses 8-12: “For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; to another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another diverse kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: but all these worketh that one and selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.â€Â

The Bible does not teach a set of gifts for women differing from those for men.

“But,†you will ask, “what does Paul mean by those scriptures which say that women shall not preach?â€Â

The Scriptures nowhere state that women should not preach. But Paul told the women at that particular time to keep silent. 1 Cor. 14:33 reads, “God is not the author of confusion, but of peace.†These women must have been out of God’s order and making confusion. So Paul commanded them to keep silent that the confusion might be stopped. The men also were making some confusion, and Paul told them to keep silent in the church when there was no one to interpret (see 1 Cor. 14:28).

In 1 Tim. 2:12, Paul says, “I suffer not a woman to teac, nor to usurp authority over the man, . . . for Adam was first formed, then Eve.†To my mind he was here reproving those women who were usurping authority or ruling over their husbands and others, which is not consistent with the Spirit of Christ.

http://www.geocities.com/chogrefmov/article220.html

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

lewis, why do you fight against the word of God with your own thoughts on shorts and short sleeves and companies? I mean really here i have you direct scripture with exactly what it says and its scriptural reasons and you make up stuff not in the bible about shorts and companies to discredit what the bible does say this should be a sign to you that there is something wrong with the way you are handling the word of God.