Would you be disapointed to find a Hindu in Heaven?

[Solo]

When you are sure that BB can be trusted you will be so thankful for his guidence that you will be forever indebted

BB is on the lunatic fringe of Christianity, and no sensible person would take him seriously.

You are too blind to be able to judge anything Christian. You only have the words in your vocabulary so that you can deceive many with your obsene false doctrines of the new age. The devil is the god of the new age, and it is he that the new agers worship in ignorance. Hopefully you will begin to listen to the Holy Spirit instead of the evil spirits that seek to destroy you.

 

[DivineNames]

You have previously tried to use a dictionary definition to show that mysticism is "occult", so I am not sure that you can really be trusted on these points.

I would be insulted if you agreed with me. 8-)

No kidding... :D

Whether we agree is not really the issue. What is the issue is that you are foolish enough to try to use a dictionary definition in that way.

:D

 

[DivineNames]

You are too blind to be able to judge anything Christian. You only have the words in your vocabulary so that you can deceive many with your obsene false doctrines of the new age. The devil is the god of the new age, and it is he that the new agers worship in ignorance. Hopefully you will begin to listen to the Holy Spirit instead of the evil spirits that seek to destroy you.

What "new age" beliefs do I have?

 

[Solo]

You are too blind to be able to judge anything Christian. You only have the words in your vocabulary so that you can deceive many with your obsene false doctrines of the new age. The devil is the god of the new age, and it is he that the new agers worship in ignorance. Hopefully you will begin to listen to the Holy Spirit instead of the evil spirits that seek to destroy you.

What "new age" beliefs do I have?

Do a study on the new age movement and you will know. I suggest reading Constance Cumby's literature. She was one of the first if not the first authorities on the subject. There is no doubt that the new age philosophies are lies from their god satan. Hopefully you will become a child of God so that these lies do no further damage.

 

[Soma-Sight]

By the way, mysticism is of the occult.

Really?

Then I guess these guys are no bueno......

Christian Mystics
ALBERTUS MAGNUS (1206-1280)
[The teacher of Thomas Aquinas. In the tradition of Pythagoras, emphasized the essential unity of science and mysticism.]

ANGELA of FOLIGNO (c.1248-1309)
[Mysticism is based on the facts of Christ's life and death. Works: The Book of Divine Consolations of the Blessed Angela of Foligno.]


ANONYMOUS (c.1349-c.1395)
[Author of The Cloud of Unknowing, The Book of Privy Council. Part of the "English school" of late mediaeval mysticism. The emphasis on "unknowing" God is part of Pseudo-Dionysius' apophatic theology. Influenced by (Pseudo-)Dionysius.]

ANONYMOUS (c.1350-1400)
[Author of Theologia Germanica or Theologia Deutsch. Important influence in the German mystical tradition. Luther rediscovered and popularized it. Influenced by Augustine, Eckhart, Tauler.]

ANTONY, Saint (c.251-356)
[Early hermit or solitary monk, and a model for later monasticism, particularly of his eremetical type. Works: The Letters of St. Antony the Great.]

ATHANASIUS, Saint (c.296-373)
[Bishop of Alexandria from 328 to 373, wrote a Life of Antony, and was an influence on later Eastern Orthodox mysticism. Other works: Against the Gentiles, Apology Against the Arians.]

AUGUSTINE, Saint (354-430)
[Important source for much mediaeval mysticism. Brings Platonism and Christianity together. He emphasizes the soul's search for God, made possible by the illumination of the mind of God. Works include: De Trinitate, Confessions.]

BASIL THE GREAT, Saint (c.330-379)
[One of the Cappadocians, early church fathers. He gave a mystical orientation to the monastic movement. Works: Longer Rules, Liturgy of St. Basil.]

BEATRICE of NAZARETH (1200-1268)
[Belgian Cistercian mystic. Associated with the Beguines. Works: The Seven Modes of Sacred Love.]

BERNARD of CLAIRVAUX (1091-1153)
[Cistercian mystic. Promoted a mystical vision of rhapsodic love, in which the Church is described in erotic terms as the bride of Christ. His love-mysticism had the tendency to be anti-intellectual, as in his disputes with Abelard. Works: Sermons, De diligendo Deo, On the Love of God.]

BONAVENTURE [John Fidanza] (1217-1274)
[Franciscan monk, and the architect of the philosophical, theological, and mystical side of Francis' thought. Mysticism in the Augustinian tradition. Works: The Mind's Road to God, The Tree of Life, The Life of St. Francis.]

BIRGITTA [Brigida] SUECICA of SWEDEN (1302-1373)
[Ascetic mystic. Heavily involved in political activity. Influenced by St. Francis of Assisi.]

CATHERINE of SIENA (1347-1380)
[Italian mystic and advisor to Pope Gregory XI. Influenced by Augustine. Works:Il Dialogo.]

DIONYSIUS [Pseudo-Dionysius] the Areopagite (writing c.500)
[Originates the distinction between kataphatic and apophatic theology. Works: Mystical Theology, The Divine Names.]

ECKHART, MEISTER (1260-1327/8)
[Dominican monk. One of the most important early German speculative mystics and the first of the so-called "Rhineland" mystics. His Sermons were in German, the academic works in Latin. Works: Sermons, Parisian Questions and Prologues. Selections in English are available. Influenced by Pseudo-Dionysius.]

ERIUGENA, John Scotus (c.810-c.877)
[Translated Pseudo-Dionysius from Greek into Latin. He holds that humans are a microcosm of the universe. That which is shared, the essence of all things, is God. Works: Periphyseon.]

FRANCIS of ASSISI [John Bernardone] (1182-1226)
[Founder of the Franciscan order, which emphasized self-renunciation and poverty. Francis approaches nature mysticism at times, particularly when he sees God in all living things. Works: Canticle of the Sun.]

GREGORY of NAZIANZUS (329-389)
[One of the Cappadocians, early church fathers. Works: Forty-five Sermons.]

GREGORY of NYSSA (c.335-c.398)
[Believed that the universe existed as a harmonious order emanating from God. One of the Cappadocians. Works: Dialogue with his Sister Macrina concerning the Resurrection.]

GREGORY PALAMAS (1296-1359)
[Eastern Orthodox mystic.]

HADEWIJCH [Adelwip] of Brabant/Antwerp (13th century)
[Belgian Beguine and one of the greatest exponents of love mysticism. Works: Letters, Poems in Stanzas, Visions, Poems in Couplets.]

HILDEGARD of BINGEN, Saint (1098-1179)
[Early German speculative mystic, reminiscent of Isaiah or Ezekiel at times. She was greatly respected in her time, both for her writings as well as for her music and art. Works: Scivias, The Book of Divine Works, Letters.]

HILTON, WALTER (d. 1395)
[English mystic. Works: The Scale (Ladder) of Perfection, Epistle to a Devout Man.]

HUGH of ST. VICTOR (c.1096-c.1142)
[He argues for a close tie between reason and mysticism.]

IGNATIUS of ANTIOCH (c. 35-c.107)
[Christocentric mystic. For him Christ's death and resurrection take on mystical significance.]

IRENAEUS (c.125-c.202)
[Irenaeus' work was directed against Gnosticism. He emphasized John's gospel, particularly the Logos, which became the voice of God that revealed itself to all people. Works: Revolution and Overthrow of False Knowledge (or Against Heresies).]

JOHN of the CROSS, Saint [Juan de Yepes] (1542-1591)
[Discalced Carmelite Spanish mystic. Along with Teresa of Avila, John's mysticism is union with God, attainable only in the denial of the self. Influenced by Teresa of Avila. Works: Dark Night of the Soul and Ascent of Mt. Carmel.]

JULIAN of NORWICH (1342-1413?)
[Julian was part of the "English school" of late mediaeval mysticism. Mystical experience that came at the point of death. The experience came with healing, and she devoted her life to understanding her vision. Influenced by Pseudo-Dionysius and perhaps Aquinas. Works: Showings or Revelations of Divine Love.]

JUSTIN MARTYR (c.105-c.165)
[Used Greek philosophy as the stepping-stone to Christian theology. The mystical conclusions that some Greeks arrived at, pointed to Christ. Works: First Apology.]

KEMPE, MARGERY (c.1413)
[Kempe is known primarily as the biographer of Julian of Norwich.]

LLULL, RAMON (c.1235-1315)
[Franciscan. Legend has it that he wrote 200 works, was an alchemist and a magician. He also worked on the logic of science. The "Great Art" is the scientific and mystical calculation of the interrelations of all things. Works: Great Art, The Book of the Lover and the Beloved.]

LUTHER, MARTIN (1483-1546)
[A well-known antipathy to mystics, but a foundation for mystical life in his theology of the heart, particularly in his early thought. Influences: Augustine, Theologica Germanica.

MECHTHILD of MAGDEBURG (1207-1282)
[Strongly feminine images in mysticism. Devotional mystic. Associated with the Beguines. Works: The Flowing Light of the Godhead.]

MERTON, THOMAS. (1915-1968)
[Prolific writer, Trappist monk given the name Father Louis. Spent many years at the Abbey of Gethsemani in Kentucky, USA. Died accidentally while in Southeast Asia to speak at a conference for contemplatives of many traditions.]

ORIGEN (c.185-254)
[Studied under Clement of Alexandria, and probably also Ammonius Saccus (Plotinus' teacher). He Christianized and theologized neo-Platonism. Each soul has individually fallen (emanation), and must find its way back to God (return) through the help of the Logos, Christ. Origen looks quite Gnostic at times. Works: On Principles, Against Celsus.]

PASCAL, BLAISE (1623-1662)
[French mathematician, scientist, and Jansenist. Influenced by Augustine.]

POLYCARP, Saint (c.69-c.155)
[Had a mystical vision which foretold his martyrdom by fire.]

PORETE, MARGUERITE (d. 1310)
[Works: The Mirror of Simple Souls.]

RICHARD of ST. VICTOR (d. 1173)
[Works: On Sacraments.]

ROLLE, RICHARD (1300-1349)
[Part of the "English school" of late mediaeval mysticism. Emphasizes the "physicality" of the mystical experience (feeling heat, seeing colours, etc.). Works: The Fire of Love.]

RUYSBROECK, JAN van (1293-1381)
[Flemish mystic, sometimes considered one of the Rhineland mystics, who outlined the stages of the mystical life. Works: The Adornment of the Spiritual Marriage (Spiritual Espousals), The Sparkling Stone, The Book of Supreme Truth.]

SUSO, HENRY (1295-1366)
[A Rhineland mystic. Works: The Little Book of Truth, The Little Book of Wisdom (Horologium Sapientiae).]

TAULER, JOHANNES (1300-1361)
[Rhineland mystic and Dominican. He emphasized the inner person rather than outer works, and because of this became popular in Protestant circles in the Reformation, and later Pietism and Romanticism. Was part of the same community that produced the Theologia Germanica. Works: Sermons.]
TERESA of AVILA (1515-1582)
[Spanish Carmelite nun. Formed the Discalced (Barefoot) Carmelites, with St. John of the Cross. Is very important for describing the stages of the mystical journey. Influenced by Augustine. Works: Life, by Herself; The Way of Perfection; The Interior Castle.]


TERTULLIAN (c.155-c.222)
[A faith that is a contradiction to reason. First to use trinitarian formulation for God. Works: To Martyrs, Apology, Against the Valentinians, Against Marcion, On the Soul.]

THOMAS AQUINAS, Saint (1224-1275)
[Dominican monk and the greatest Catholic theologian and philosopher. Late in life, he had a mystical experience which caused him to question his scholastic past. Works: Summa Theologica, De Anima, others.]

UNDERHILL, EVELYN (1875-1941)
[British Anglican contributor to a revival of interest in mysticism. Works: Mysticism, 12th edition. (New York: Meridian Books, 1955) which lists texts, translations, and studies for many different mystics.]

WILLIAM of ST.-THIERRY (c.1085-1148)
[A Cistercian contemporary of Bernard's who also emphasized love-mysticism, but with subtle differences from Bernard in his use of Augustine. Works: Golden Letter, On the Contemplation of God, On the Nature and Dignity of Love.]

Greek Philosophers
ARISTOTLE (384-322BCE)
[An influence on mystics, alone or in combination with Plato and Plotinus. Christianized in the high Middle Ages. Works: Metaphysics, De Anima, Nicomachean Ethics.]

PARMENIDES (c.515-c.450BCE)
[A Presocratic who adds to Pythagoras with the view that change is illusory. This distinction between the unchanging real and the changing illusory or phenomenonal, or the two-world view, is characteristic of mysticism. Works: On Nature, extant in fragments.]

PHILO (c.20 BCE-c.41CE)
[An Alexandrian Jew who drew from Platonist tradition, Stoicism, and neo-Pythagoreanism to create a fusion of the active or virtuous life and the contemplative life. Works: The Contemplative Life.]

PLATO (428-348BCE)
[His thought is the basis of most later mystical forms. Works: Sophist, Republic, Parmenides, many others.]

PLOTINUS (c.205-270CE)
[Provides the neo-Platonic basis for much Western mysticism -- Jewish, Christian, and Islamic. Works: Enneads.]

PORPHYRY (c.232-304CE)
[Compiled Plotinus' Enneads and wrote a life of Plotinus. He was strongly anti-Christian, yet he became important in the history of Christian mysticism. Works: Isagoge.]

PROCLUS [Proclusthe Lycian] (412-485CE)
[Athenian Neo-platonist, who influenced Pseudo-Dionysius, and beyond him most of the mystical tradition. Works: The Elements of Theology.]

PYTHAGORAS (c.580/570-c.500 BCE)
[A Presocratic philosopher interested in number, music, harmony, and the soul. Plato's Phaedo bears his influence.]

 

[bibleberean]

Indians used peyote to contact spirits and to bring them into the spirit world.

These are not the only people to practice this. Using hallucinogens to contact spirits is a form of witchcraft and is forbidden.

You will never read of people using potions to contact God in the scriptures.

I already wrote this and it should have been enough.

Peyote eaters are practitioners of witchcraft.

Revelation 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Sorcery

5331. pharmakeia
Search for G5331 in KJVSL

jarmakeia pharmakeia far-mak-i'-ah

from 5332; medication ("pharmacy"), i.e. (by extension) magic (literally or figuratively):--sorcery, witchcraft.

See Greek 5332

Using drugs to "experience Christ" is a sure entrance to the doctrines of devils.

Also Pharmekia is where we get our word for pharmacy.

It matters not a wit to me if the skeptics, mystics, or other non-bible believers agree with me or not.

True believers will be vindicated by God Himself.

To see witchcraft in drug use one only needs to open his or her eyes.

Timothy Leary "high priest" of LSD used to talk about his experience with hallucinogens in spiritual terms.

A person would have to be in total denial to deny that the use of hallucinogenic drugs can be closely tied with witchcraft and sorcery....

 

[bibleberean]

Personal conflicts can be resolved through PMs. Thanks...

 

[DivineNames]

You are too blind to be able to judge anything Christian. You only have the words in your vocabulary so that you can deceive many with your obsene false doctrines of the new age. The devil is the god of the new age, and it is he that the new agers worship in ignorance. Hopefully you will begin to listen to the Holy Spirit instead of the evil spirits that seek to destroy you.

What "new age" beliefs do I have?

Do a study on the new age movement and you will know.

You have accussed me of "deceiving", with "obsene false doctrines of the new age", and that this is tied up with devil worship.

When I ask what 'new age' beliefs I have, I am entitled to an answer. If you can't provide an answer, then presumably you are talking nonsense. The accusation may be amusingly absurd, but you are still guilty of dishonesty (deliberate or via negligence) and slandering me, which reflects on you.

 

[DivineNames]

Indians used peyote to contact spirits and to bring them into the spirit world.

These are not the only people to practice this. Using hallucinogens to contact spirits is a form of witchcraft and is forbidden.

Peyote may well have been used to connect with a 'spirit world'. This doesn't show that peyote use is intrinsically sorcery. Prayer and fasting may have been practiced techniques to connect with a 'spirit world' at times, but this doesn't show that prayer and fasting are intrinsically sorcery.

 

[DivineNames]

Timothy Leary "high priest" of LSD used to talk about his experience with hallucinogens in spiritual terms.

He certainly did, but that is completely irrelevant. He didn't claim that his own LSD use was about 'sorcery', not as far as I know.

A person would have to be in total denial to deny that the use of hallucinogenic drugs can be closely tied with witchcraft and sorcery....

Which is a straw man argument, the issue isn't whether psychedelic plants can be tied with sorcery.

 

[DivineNames]

There will be no promotion of illegal drug use or the use of mind altering drugs to worship God that is witchcraft according to scripture .

On the "illegal drug use" point-


"Laws regarding peyote vary from state to state, with many states allowing "bona fide religious use" of peyote as an exception to the controlled substance laws. Arizona, Colorado, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Nevada, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, Texas, Wisconsin, and Wyoming all offer some limited exceptions to the peyote laws for religious use. See Peyote Foundation's State Law Page (cache)

In states such as Arizona, Colorado, Minnesota, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, and Utah, peyote may be used by any bonafide relgious organization. In Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Oklahoma, South Dakota, and Wisconsin, use of peyote is only protected within Native American Church ceremonies. In Kansas, Texas, and Wyoming use is only protected for members of the NAC, and Idaho and Texas require some "Native American Heritage" in order to be exempt.

Utah #
Utah Supreme Court ruled that peyote use in "bona fide" religious ceremonies, regardless of the race of the participants, is protected under Utah and Federal Law in Utah. The court wrote: "On its face, the exemption applies to members of the Native American Church, without regard to tribal membership. The bona fide religious use of peyote cannot serve as the basis for prosecuting members of the Native American Church under state law." See: Salt Lake Tribune, June 23 2004, Utah State Supreme Court Decision"


http://www.erowid.org/plants/peyote/peyote_law.shtml

 

[bibleberean]

There will be no promotion of drug use for spiritual or recreational purposes in this forum. :angel:

End of Story.

All posts that distract from the subject of this thread by changing into a debate about drugs will be deleted.

Watch what happens if this post is not heeded.

"Go ahead, make my day". :D

 

[Andyhill]

Good evening all!

Well, I voted that I would not be disappointed to find a Hindu in Heaven. Our Sages teach that, "The righteous of all nations have a share in the world-to-come."

Be well!

Andyhill

 

[soma]

The fake Christians have attacked everyone and now are even attacking Christians exposing their own shallow beliefs. We are lucky they don't know where we live because they would crucify us for sure. I pray you get a relationship with Jesus our savior so you are not so lonely.

 

[Lyric's Dad]

Would I be disappointed to find a Hindu in heaven?

HECK NO!!

I would rejoice to no end at the mercy and love that is Jesus Christ.

 

[bibleberean]

The bible is clear that nonbelievers will not be in heaven.

A believer in Christ would no longer be a Hindu...

And the truth is in the words of Christ.


Jesus gave the Jews these words who rejected Him.

John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

All non believers are children of wrath or we may as well throw out our bibles because that is exactly what it says.

Talking to believers the apostle Paul states:

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

All believers were at one time children of wrath and all non believers are children of wrath.

To believe or not to believe. Now that is the question.

 

[Gendou Ikari]

I won't be a bit surprised to find a Hindu in heaven. I mean, He won't still be a Hindu but you know what I mean.

For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified. Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence; thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power. For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy is being abolished: death. For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him. Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.) (I Corinthians 15:22-28)

Who is the Image of the invisible God, Firstborn of every creature, for in Him is all created, that in the heavens and that on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones, or lordships, or sovereignties, or authorities, all is created through Him and for Him, and He is before all, and all has its cohesion in Him. And He is the Head of the body, the ecclesia, Who is Sovereign, Firstborn from among the dead, that in all He may be becoming first, for in Him the entire complement delights to dwell, and through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens. (Colossians 1:15-20)

(for for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers. These things be charging and teaching. (1 Timothy 2:10)

 

[Solo]

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Romans 1:16-32

 

[DivineNames]

There will be no promotion of drug use for spiritual or recreational purposes in this forum. :angel:

End of Story.

All posts that distract from the subject of this thread by changing into a debate about drugs will be deleted.

Watch what happens if this post is not heeded.

"Go ahead, make my day". :D

Was that aimed at me?

I don't remember trying to promote drug use in this thread, not for any reason. I do remember trying to address questionable claims that you were making.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Would I be disappointed to find a Hindu in heaven?

HECK NO!!

I would rejoice to no end at the mercy and love that is Jesus Christ.

Good answer....