S
Shinto
Guest
So you feel Mohammed and the early Muslims were wrong on principle to silence those who spoke against their teaching by using violence?
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G
Gary
Guest
In the 5 minutes that it took you to reply, you could not possible have read through all the sites I presented to you.
I ask again.... Were you unaware of these events?
I ask again.... Were you unaware of these events?
S
Shinto
Guest
Gary said:In the 5 minutes that it took you to reply, you could not possible have read through all the sites I presented to you.
I ask again.... Were you unaware of these events?
I was aware of the violence that accompanied Mohammed's mission, yes. I read the first three links. Once I understood what you were referencing I moved on.
The funny thing though is that you did not answer my post.
Shinto said:
G
Gary
Guest
Shinto said:Gary said:In the 5 minutes that it took you to reply, you could not possible have read through all the sites I presented to you.
I ask again.... Were you unaware of these events?
I was aware of the violence that accompanied Mohammed's mission, yes. I read the first three links. Once I understood what you were referencing I moved on.
Were you aware of all the incidents that I referenced? If so, why did you ask: What murder and deceit was that specifically?
Do you consider Muhammad's acts in the 8 examples I sited as "murder and deceit"?
S
Shinto
Guest
Gary said:Shinto said:Gary said:In the 5 minutes that it took you to reply, you could not possible have read through all the sites I presented to you.
I ask again.... Were you unaware of these events?
I was aware of the violence that accompanied Mohammed's mission, yes. I read the first three links. Once I understood what you were referencing I moved on.
Were you aware of all the incidents that I referenced? If so, why did you ask: What murder and deceit was that specifically?
Do you consider Muhammad's acts in the 8 examples I sited as "murder and deceit"?
I asked because I've noticed that it is best to fully understand where strangers on the internet are coming from, otherwise a lot of time is wasted.
You are still avoiding answering my question.
It seems to me that you want very badly to discuss the evils of Islam. But I want to discuss your desire to ban the Koran.
Since this thread is titled "Would you support the banning of the Koran in the USA?" perhaps you should answer my question.
G
Gary
Guest
IF you had read my first post, you would have understood that I do not support banning the Quran. I said:
You wanted specifics of Muhammad's "murders and deceit."
I have given them.
So do you now agree that
That is exactly what I have done and will continue to do.Gary said:
You wanted specifics of Muhammad's "murders and deceit."
I have given them.
So do you now agree that
- (1) Muhammad murdered
(2) Muhammad encouraged his followers to be deceitful?
S
Shinto
Guest
Gary said:
No, I just wanted to know exactly what you were refering to when you mentioned it. I scarcely know you after all. I wasn't interested in the topic in itself particularly.
Gary said:So do you now agree that
- (1) Muhammad murdered
(2) Muhammad encouraged his followers to be deceitful?
No, not really Gary. At least not as you see it. I'm afraid you haven't been very persuasive. Maybe it was the bias of the citations, maybe it was the lack of scholarly research and context, maybe it was the hostility of your
. Better luck in the future.I'm happy to hear that you don't support censorship though.
G
Gary
Guest
By the way, we agree on one thing. I also agree that citations from the Quran and the Hadith are not "scholarly research".... There is nothing "scholary" about either.
:D
:D
S
Shinto
Guest
Gary said:
. . . .
Yeah.
Night Gary.
S
salvation122
Guest
Note the bold.
2: No.
No.Soma-Sight said:
No.
No.
No.NOTW said:
No. Christ but you're retarded.
1: Elipses are not necessary after every sentence.Soma-Sight said:
2: No.
S
Soma-Sight
Guest
Hey Salvation 122....
If ANY other Gospel is given to you even from an Angel on High Paul says that he is to be CONDEMNED!
8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
I think our Senior Board member GARY might let you know how much BAD FRUIT Islam has it....
Suicide Bombers and the degredation of human rights.....
The Quran is leading people from the TRUE GOSPEL of CHRIST so why should it be tolerated on our home soil????
Jamestown may have been settled for monetary gain but PLYMOUTH and all the northern colonies were founded for RELIGIOUS REPRESSION and PURITAN IDEALS.....
If you were a Muslim rolling up to town you would be lynched in those day....
PERIOD!
What is the differential between the fruits of Satan and the fruits of Islam???
If ANY other Gospel is given to you even from an Angel on High Paul says that he is to be CONDEMNED!
8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
I think our Senior Board member GARY might let you know how much BAD FRUIT Islam has it....
Suicide Bombers and the degredation of human rights.....
The Quran is leading people from the TRUE GOSPEL of CHRIST so why should it be tolerated on our home soil????
Jamestown may have been settled for monetary gain but PLYMOUTH and all the northern colonies were founded for RELIGIOUS REPRESSION and PURITAN IDEALS.....
If you were a Muslim rolling up to town you would be lynched in those day....
PERIOD!
What is the differential between the fruits of Satan and the fruits of Islam???
S
Shinto
Guest
Soma-Sight said:
And after the Salem Witch Trial hysteria Puritan rule gradually fell out of favor.
Soma, things that the government does are predicated on the threat of violence. That's why religion shouldn't mix itself with worldly things like government. Threatening to do violence to people who don't agree with you doesn't strike me as particularly Christian.
In fact, that is one of the things that has been pointed to as proof of Mohammed's malevolence.
I
Imagican
Guest
PHIL121 said:
Not only genocide, but more important, one-sided education. Look at the poor ignorant Ruskies and the impact state controlled education and public learning has contributed to their damaged society.
No, banning the book or religion is NOT the answer. I've got the answer for you, but no one will want to hear it.
Their BIGGEST problem with us is that they see us as un-Godly people. We 'talk' about God, but 'do' little else other than allow our Government 'free reign' in it's treatment of those that they choose to take advantage of. These people are often devout in their religious walk and see our utter 'lack' of piety as sacrilege.
The answer would be to 'show' them that we believe in God as much as they. Return to values of the past and not only 'talk' about God, but 'act' like God fearing people. This would go a long way in proving to these people that we accept and follow God. Otherwise, their religion teaches that those that follow the world, (infidels), are fair game and have no right to inherit ANYTHING that God has to offer His children.
Do you think that destroying their country is the 'right' way to show them how we really feel. I mean Sodam was a nasty dictator, but these people had lived with this for many years and in all honesty, they are use to this kind of treatment. It seems horrible to us viewing it in on our big-screen TV in our nicely decorated living rooms, but who are we to judge how someone with a completely different set of standards and morals lives out their lives?
If I were one of these people I would probably be 'blowing up' the invaders at just as rapid a pace as they are. Mark my words folks, As soon as we no longer occupy this country, they will return to something VERY similar to the way they lived before.
If our countries politician/s, (Bush), would leave these people alone we wouldn't be in the position we're in right now, worrying about how to deal with 'them'. The difference between now and thirty years ago is that now they have seen our treatment of those in their world and now they have the money, (through oil), to 'hit back'.
Obviously the majority of this country has bought into the lies that have been fed to them from politicians and media. Ben's purpose in attacking America wasn't 'just to kill people'. He was hoping that it would bring their problems with America into view and that the American people themselves would become responsible for the actions of it's government. We do teach the world that America is 'we the people' right. They thought that by striking fear in our hearts that we would begin to face up to the 'truth' of how the actions of our government have affected their people and they are tired of it and will 'sit and watch it' no more.
If you good folks remember, Bush looked us in the eyes on national television and lied to our faces when he stated that Afganistan and Iraq were the attackers of 7-11. So, those that were so gung-ho to agree with him in attacking these countries have caused MUCH more damage than ole Ben did on 9-11. When the final death toll is available, I believe that we probably murdered people that were innocent of this attack on America to the tune of probably 20 or 30 to one.
And you know folks, God looks into our hearts and knows why we do and say the things that we do. He not only judges the wicked, he also judges those that take part in the evil that they do.
Hey, I'm new here...first post.
I'm not going to go deep into comparing Islam with Christianity and such because I've been reading through it all on this thread and now my head is spinning. So I'll give my opinion on that matter later.
I just thought I'd answer the question. Do I support banning the Qur'an in the US? Absolutely not. I don't believe in the banning of anything. I believe people have brains, and they have the right to read whatever they want and make their own decisions on them.
By the way, that poll had two very loaded and biased questions, which isn't fair poll. Just so you know. (Needless to say, I didn't answer it.)
I'm not going to go deep into comparing Islam with Christianity and such because I've been reading through it all on this thread and now my head is spinning. So I'll give my opinion on that matter later.
I just thought I'd answer the question. Do I support banning the Qur'an in the US? Absolutely not. I don't believe in the banning of anything. I believe people have brains, and they have the right to read whatever they want and make their own decisions on them.
By the way, that poll had two very loaded and biased questions, which isn't fair poll. Just so you know. (Needless to say, I didn't answer it.)
I voted, "No," because once you eliminate the freedom of religion, then what's next? Freedom of speech? Freedom of assembly? Press? I'd love it if there were no non-Christians, but there's nothing we can do about it. They'll answer to God on the Day of Judgment.
The best way to show the invalidity of a religion is to start at its story of creation.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Testimonies/leah.html said:
The best way to show the invalidity of a religion is to start at its story of creation.
G
Georges
Guest
Gary said:Expose the Quran by the light of the Bible and the Gospel.
Expose Muhammad by the example of Jesus.
What would Joshua had done if he used the example of Christ while entering the promised land?
Think about it...it is the same thing....
Islam just as the false religions in the land are an abomination to God...what did God require Joshua to do?
Banning the book is the least the US should do....Was not the US a safer place to be in 30 years ago? Islam and radical Islam were not a threat to us then....what has happened since then? Religious tolerance....sorry but that's what happened.
S
Soma-Sight
Guest
Theists hate to admit it but the Biblegod of the OT is a vengeful and angry God.
If Moses was subjected to the likes of the Bhagavad Gita or the Rig Veda of the Hindus I bet God would order it BURNED and anyone in posession of it KILLED.
How is the Koran of today any different to the Fundamentalist mindset?
Soma-Sight said:
Maybe you should cite your examples so I can show you the justification.
One example would be the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrha, or the Flood, but those were because of people's wickedness. You might say that He should reserve judgment for them, but He was preparing for the Covenant with Abraham.
Islam is a religion of war:
Quran 9:5, etc.
Are you an atheist? I would guess so. Do not deceive yourself thinking that all the 'smart' kids do it.
S
Soma-Sight
Guest
Not quite....
First of all the Bible is not God. I hope you can recognize this fact.
Here is some good verses to justify from the OT.
Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)
"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."
Sex Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
Murderer of Innocent
1st Samuel 15: 2,3 RSV
2 Thus says the LORD of hosts, 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way, when they came up out of Egypt.
3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.'"
Smashing the Heads of Infants Onto Rocks
Psalm 137: 7-9 RSV
7 Remember, O LORD, against the Edomites the day of Jerusalem, how they said, "Raze it, raze it! Down to its foundations!"
8 O daughter of Babylon, you devastator! Happy shall he be who requites you with what you have done to us!
9 Happy shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!