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Would you be in support of banning the Koran in the USA?

Would you be in support of banning the Koran in the USA?

  • 1. YES. God yes! We are at war with theses heathens and need to root out the ideologies of this fals

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    13
Soma-Sight said:
Here is some good verses to justify from the OT.

Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)

"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."


Now let's see what the actual, nonrevised Bible says:

Deutronomy 21:10-14:

When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful women, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her haead, and pare her nails; And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shall not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.


[quote:06c98]Sex Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

First of all, the Bible uses the word "betrothed" or married or engaged to. It says, if the woman doesn't please him, not sexually, but as a wife, then should he redeem her.

You've misunderstood the context of this. This is talking about if a servant sells his daughter. Please read the whole thing before jumping to conclusions from out of context verses.


Murderer of Innocent

1st Samuel 15: 2,3 RSV

2 Thus says the LORD of hosts, 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way, when they came up out of Egypt.

3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.'"

If you would have read on...1 Samuel 15:17-19, you would find out that Samuel was testing Solomon, and 1 Samuel 15:18 says: And the LORD sent thee on a journey, and said, Go and utterly destroy the sinners the Amalekites, and fight against them until they be consumed.

Smashing the Heads of Infants Onto Rocks
Psalm 137: 7-9 RSV

7 Remember, O LORD, against the Edomites the day of Jerusalem, how they said, "Raze it, raze it! Down to its foundations!"

8 O daughter of Babylon, you devastator! Happy shall he be who requites you with what you have done to us!

9 Happy shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!
[/quote:06c98]

Again, you are misquoting: Here they are all sad and they asked to be sung a song. He's talking about the LORD, by saying 'Remember, O LORD,' He's being sarcastic in a sad way by referring to 'Happy shall he be.' Notice he's not even talking about the LORD. What he really means is whoever did that is screwed.

----------------------------------
Maybe instead of looking for sorry excuses for a 'vengeful' God in the OT, you should maybe focus on actual mercies He Himself did to people, especially sparing them from destruction.
 
If you would have read on...1 Samuel 15:17-19, you would find out that Samuel was testing Solomon, and 1 Samuel 15:18 says: And the LORD sent thee on a journey, and said, Go and utterly destroy the sinners the Amalekites, and fight against them until they be consumed.

I guess you are right on this.

Babies are sinners due to original sin and God was Good in killing them since they were pagan.
 
It would be pointless to ban it, since every practicing Muslim has it memorized completely, and can recite the entire Quran from front to back.

What American Christians need is a really excellent English translation of the Quran so that they can understand the Muslim view, and then point out the obvious errors in the Quran.

Trust me, there's so many errors in the Quran it's ridiculous. Muhammad wrote this book to convince his followers that his actions were justified because of he claimed he was divinely inspired. The truth is, it wasn't any divinity that inspired that man.
 
Fath said:
It would be pointless to ban it, since every practicing Muslim has it memorized completely, and can recite the entire Quran from front to back.
Not true at all. Many non-Arabic speaking Muslims (the majority of Muslims) know very little about what is in the Quran. They may be able to recite some verses.... but to imply that most Muslims can recite the whole Quran is incorrect.

Fath said:
What American Christians need is a really excellent English translation of the Quran so that they can understand the Muslim view, and then point out the obvious errors in the Quran.
Many are available online. No need to waste money on a Quran.

A good Internet site for several translations on the Quran is:
http://www.quranbrowser.com/

It has translations by

Orthodox Muslims:
Pickthall
Yusuf Ali
Hilali-Khan
Shakir

Non-Orthodox Muslims:
Sher Ali
Khalifa

Non-Muslims:
Arberry
Palmer
Rodwell
Sale

Others:
Arabic Transliteration


Fath said:
Trust me, there's so many errors in the Quran it's ridiculous. Muhammad wrote this book to convince his followers that his actions were justified because of he claimed he was divinely inspired. The truth is, it wasn't any divinity that inspired that man.
Yes, there are many contradictions in the Quran
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/index.html

However, I think that the best way to disprove Islam is to look at the life of Muhammad. Jesus said that we would know false prophets by their fruits. The fruits of Muhammad are rotten. We see that even today. It has always been like that.

Muhammad's questionable actions:

  • Muhammad and the Rape of the Female Slaves
    Muhammad and the Murder of Abu Afak
    Muhammad and the Murder of Asma bint Marwan
    The Deception and Murder of Kab al-Ashraf
    Muhammad and the Death of Kinana
    Muhammad and the Death of the Uraynians
    Muhammad and the Killing of Apostates
    Muhammad and the Meccan Ten
    Muhammad and the Treaty of Hudaybiyya
Read more here:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/index.htm

:o
 
Gary said:
Fath said:
It would be pointless to ban it, since every practicing Muslim has it memorized completely, and can recite the entire Quran from front to back.
Not true at all. Many non-Arabic speaking Muslims (the majority of Muslims) know very little about what is in the Quran. They may be able to recite some verses.... but to imply that most Muslims can recite the whole Quran is incorrect.

Fath said:
What American Christians need is a really excellent English translation of the Quran so that they can understand the Muslim view, and then point out the obvious errors in the Quran.
Many are available online. No need to waste money on a Quran.

A good Internet site for several translations on the Quran is:
http://www.quranbrowser.com/

It has translations by

Orthodox Muslims:
Pickthall
Yusuf Ali
Hilali-Khan
Shakir

Non-Orthodox Muslims:
Sher Ali
Khalifa

Non-Muslims:
Arberry
Palmer
Rodwell
Sale

Others:
Arabic Transliteration


Fath said:
Trust me, there's so many errors in the Quran it's ridiculous. Muhammad wrote this book to convince his followers that his actions were justified because of he claimed he was divinely inspired. The truth is, it wasn't any divinity that inspired that man.
Yes, there are many contradictions in the Quran
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/index.html

However, I think that the best way to disprove Islam is to look at the life of Muhammad. Jesus said that we would know false prophets by their fruits. The fruits of Muhammad are rotten. We see that even today. It has always been like that.

Muhammad's questionable actions:

  • Muhammad and the Rape of the Female Slaves
    Muhammad and the Murder of Abu Afak
    Muhammad and the Murder of Asma bint Marwan
    The Deception and Murder of Kab al-Ashraf
    Muhammad and the Death of Kinana
    Muhammad and the Death of the Uraynians
    Muhammad and the Killing of Apostates
    Muhammad and the Meccan Ten
    Muhammad and the Treaty of Hudaybiyya
Read more here:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/index.htm

:o
Another fine post, Gary. Keep up the good work. :D
 
Gary said:
Fath said:
It would be pointless to ban it, since every practicing Muslim has it memorized completely, and can recite the entire Quran from front to back.
Not true at all. Many non-Arabic speaking Muslims (the majority of Muslims) know very little about what is in the Quran. They may be able to recite some verses.... but to imply that most Muslims can recite the whole Quran is incorrect.

The key word in my post was "practicing."

Those who actively practice their religion can indeed recite the Quran from front to back; I have witnessed this first hand several times. Not all Muslims fall into the category of "practicing," not even the moderate Muslims, and certainly not those who know very little of what is written in the Quran.

Gary said:
Many are available online. No need to waste money on a Quran.

A good Internet site for several translations on the Quran is:
http://www.quranbrowser.com/

It has translations by

Orthodox Muslims:
Pickthall
Yusuf Ali
Hilali-Khan
Shakir

Non-Orthodox Muslims:
Sher Ali
Khalifa

Non-Muslims:
Arberry
Palmer
Rodwell
Sale

Others:
Arabic Transliteration

I have over 25 English ranslations, including all those listed on that website you posted. However, if you compare translations between those people, you will notice that many verses of the Quran are translated according to their personal interpretation, and because of that you will find broad differences in the meanings of specific verses so much, in fact, that they do not even resemble each other.

Take the Hilali/Khan translation, for example. They interpolate so much personal interpretation that they display the Quran with ruthless bias towards Christians and Jews so much, in fact, that the Quran is teaching Muslims to hate Christians and Jews. And this particular version of teh Quran is the one that is state sanctioned by the Saudi Arabian government and handed out free. It is the most common Quran in Sauadi Arabia.


Fath said:
Trust me, there's so many errors in the Quran it's ridiculous. Muhammad wrote this book to convince his followers that his actions were justified because of he claimed he was divinely inspired. The truth is, it wasn't any divinity that inspired that man.

Gary said:
Yes, there are many contradictions in the Quran
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/index.html

However, I think that the best way to disprove Islam is to look at the life of Muhammad. Jesus said that we would know false prophets by their fruits. The fruits of Muhammad are rotten. We see that even today. It has always been like that.

Muhammad's questionable actions:

  • Muhammad and the Rape of the Female Slaves
    Muhammad and the Murder of Abu Afak
    Muhammad and the Murder of Asma bint Marwan
    The Deception and Murder of Kab al-Ashraf
    Muhammad and the Death of Kinana
    Muhammad and the Death of the Uraynians
    Muhammad and the Killing of Apostates
    Muhammad and the Meccan Ten
    Muhammad and the Treaty of Hudaybiyya
Read more here:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/index.htm

:o

Answering Islam is a great place for dealing with issues from Muslims regarding the Quran. But it is no match whatsoever against someone who has walked the walk of Islam, such as converts like myself and millions others. Not only do we see contradictions such as listed at that website, but we see the Muslims actually contradicting each other, including their own scholars who contradict each other.

The Muslims have an interesting science known as the "Science of the aHadith." Hadiths are scraps of ancient parchment which the Muslims use to determine the meanings of the Quran. These parchments number in the thousands, and are dated back to the time of Muhammad.

If they find any parchment that verifies that Jesus was crucified, they will consider it a false Hadith, and destroy it. They have found dozens of these such parchments, including some in Muhammad's own words, which state specifically that Jesus was crucified.

The truth is, hard line Muslims have been taught to hate Christians and Jews, and anything that goes against that view- even from the mouth of Muhammad- will be regarded as false.

They don't know what love is, because they don't know Christ.
 
Solo said:
How is God going to handle the Muslims when Jesus returns?

You already know:

Phi 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of heavenly ones, and of earthly ones, and of ones under the earth;
 
Fath said:
Solo said:
How is God going to handle the Muslims when Jesus returns?

You already know:

Phi 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of heavenly ones, and of earthly ones, and of ones under the earth;
What will their eternal destiny be?
 
Solo said:
Fath said:
Solo said:
How is God going to handle the Muslims when Jesus returns?

You already know:

Phi 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of heavenly ones, and of earthly ones, and of ones under the earth;
What will their eternal destiny be?

That can be answered with a question:

If every knee shall bow to Christ at the end of days, and this includes those who are Muslims, will their final destination be hell?
 
Fath said:
Solo said:
Fath said:
Solo said:
How is God going to handle the Muslims when Jesus returns?

You already know:

Phi 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of heavenly ones, and of earthly ones, and of ones under the earth;
What will their eternal destiny be?

That can be answered with a question:

If every knee shall bow to Christ at the end of days, and this includes those who are Muslims, will their final destination be hell?

Are those that bow to Christ both those that are born again, and those that are not born again? Are those that bow to Christ both believers and unbelievers? Are those that bow to Christ both wicked and righteous?
 
Are those that bow to Christ both those that are born again, and those that are not born again? Are those that bow to Christ both believers and unbelievers? Are those that bow to Christ both wicked and righteous?

All will bow to Christ. This is submission; surrerender. Submission and surrender to Christ is worth more than all the baptisms, beliefs, and righteous acts combined.

For submission to Christ is the greatest act of them all. The total and unconditional surrender to Christ means that your sins, beliefs, acts, and deeds are forgiven. Therefore, those who are in heaven, those who are alive on earth, and those who lay dead in their graves under the earth will all surrender to the authority of Christ.
 
Fath said:
Are those that bow to Christ both those that are born again, and those that are not born again? Are those that bow to Christ both believers and unbelievers? Are those that bow to Christ both wicked and righteous?

All will bow to Christ. This is submission; surrerender. Submission and surrender to Christ is worth more than all the baptisms, beliefs, and righteous acts combined.

For submission to Christ is the greatest act of them all. The total and unconditional surrender to Christ means that your sins, beliefs, acts, and deeds are forgiven. Therefore, those who are in heaven, those who are alive on earth, and those who lay dead in their graves under the earth will all surrender to the authority of Christ.

Ahh, You are a Universal Reconciliationist, which is a subject that is not allowed on this forum, but it all makes sense now. I will not comment further upon this heretical doctrine as it is against the forum's Terms of Service. It is sad to think that there are people that believe some of this nonsense.
 
Solo said:
Fath said:
Are those that bow to Christ both those that are born again, and those that are not born again? Are those that bow to Christ both believers and unbelievers? Are those that bow to Christ both wicked and righteous?

All will bow to Christ. This is submission; surrerender. Submission and surrender to Christ is worth more than all the baptisms, beliefs, and righteous acts combined.

For submission to Christ is the greatest act of them all. The total and unconditional surrender to Christ means that your sins, beliefs, acts, and deeds are forgiven. Therefore, those who are in heaven, those who are alive on earth, and those who lay dead in their graves under the earth will all surrender to the authority of Christ.

Ahh, You are a Universal Reconciliationist, which is a subject that is not allowed on this forum, but it all makes sense now. I will not comment further upon this heretical doctrine as it is against the forum's Terms of Service. It is sad to think that there are people that believe some of this nonsense.

With all due respect, your accusations are unfounded and untrue. All will bow to Christ in submission; this is written within the bible. Every knee will bow.

Are we to exclude Muslims and other faiths from this? Will Christ not be their Lord? Will Islamic Muslims still exist?

All will submit to Christ, but will all be judged by God the same way? Will the submission of many come too late? Think about this.

All will be forced to acknowledge the truth of Christ and be subject to it. But that by no means provides an escape route from the judgment.

Despite the forgiveness of sins, there will be no time for repentance at the end of days. Therefore, you will be judged by God based upon your actions and deeds, but if you have no good deeds due to running out of time to enact a repentance, then you will have no fruit to give to the Lord our God.

Yet, those of us who heard His voice, and turned from sin while upon the earth, and did the works our Father desired of us, we are those who will bear the fruits of our labors to the Father, and with all sins forgiven, and the fruits of our labors in hand, we shall be a walking evidence of the work of Christ.

Yes, all will surrender, all will be forgiven, and all will bow their knee.

But not all will escape the judgment.
 
Fath said:
It would be pointless to ban it, since every practicing Muslim has it memorized completely, and can recite the entire Quran from front to back.
Gary said:
Not true at all. Many non-Arabic speaking Muslims (the majority of Muslims) know very little about what is in the Quran. They may be able to recite some verses.... but to imply that most Muslims can recite the whole Quran is incorrect.
Fath said:
The key word in my post was "practicing." Those who actively practice their religion can indeed recite the Quran from front to back; I have witnessed this first hand several times. Not all Muslims fall into the category of "practicing," not even the moderate Muslims, and certainly not those who know very little of what is written in the Quran.
Point taken. However, if you take the number of Muslims who can recite the whole Quran (and understand what they are saying), then that number is actually very low. I would suspect in the region of 50,000 - 100,000. At best, a few hundred thousand. However, Muslims who would call themselves "practicing" would be in the 100's of millions. That was my point. I did not want to leave the impression that most Muslims know and can recite the Quran. The opposite is true.

Gary said:
Many are available online. No need to waste money on a Quran.

A good Internet site for several translations on the Quran is:
http://www.quranbrowser.com/

It has translations by

Orthodox Muslims:
Pickthall
Yusuf Ali
Hilali-Khan
Shakir

Non-Orthodox Muslims:
Sher Ali
Khalifa

Non-Muslims:
Arberry
Palmer
Rodwell
Sale

Others:
Arabic Transliteration
Fath said:
I have over 25 English ranslations, including all those listed on that website you posted. However, if you compare translations between those people, you will notice that many verses of the Quran are translated according to their personal interpretation, and because of that you will find broad differences in the meanings of specific verses so much, in fact, that they do not even resemble each other.

Take the Hilali/Khan translation, for example. They interpolate so much personal interpretation that they display the Quran with ruthless bias towards Christians and Jews so much, in fact, that the Quran is teaching Muslims to hate Christians and Jews. And this particular version of teh Quran is the one that is state sanctioned by the Saudi Arabian government and handed out free. It is the most common Quran in Sauadi Arabia.
I agree. I also have the Hilali/Khan translation and I agree with your comments. My version also has a whole additional section on Jihad. How Muslims can still defend the position that Jihad is a peaceful activity after reading that... beats me! :o The section is called "The call to Jihad (Holy Fighting in Allah's Cause) in the Quran"

Fath said:
Trust me, there's so many errors in the Quran it's ridiculous. Muhammad wrote this book to convince his followers that his actions were justified because of he claimed he was divinely inspired. The truth is, it wasn't any divinity that inspired that man.
Gary said:
Yes, there are many contradictions in the Quran
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/index.html

However, I think that the best way to disprove Islam is to look at the life of Muhammad. Jesus said that we would know false prophets by their fruits. The fruits of Muhammad are rotten. We see that even today. It has always been like that.

Muhammad's questionable actions:

  • Muhammad and the Rape of the Female Slaves
    Muhammad and the Murder of Abu Afak
    Muhammad and the Murder of Asma bint Marwan
    The Deception and Murder of Kab al-Ashraf
    Muhammad and the Death of Kinana
    Muhammad and the Death of the Uraynians
    Muhammad and the Killing of Apostates
    Muhammad and the Meccan Ten
    Muhammad and the Treaty of Hudaybiyya
Read more here:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/index.htm

:o
Fath said:
Answering Islam is a great place for dealing with issues from Muslims regarding the Quran. But it is no match whatsoever against someone who has walked the walk of Islam, such as converts like myself and millions others. Not only do we see contradictions such as listed at that website, but we see the Muslims actually contradicting each other, including their own scholars who contradict each other.
Yes, I understand. Several of the authors who contribute to Answering-Islam are also ex-Muslims.

Fath said:
The Muslims have an interesting science known as the "Science of the aHadith." Hadiths are scraps of ancient parchment which the Muslims use to determine the meanings of the Quran. These parchments number in the thousands, and are dated back to the time of Muhammad.
Yes, I am very aware of the Hadith. It has to be one of the best ways to highlight the inconsistencies in Muhammad's life. Today the Hadith are online so we can sort and analyse them. Muslims hate us doing that. Here is some work I have done on the Hadith:
The “Wisdom of Muhammad†from the Hadith
http://answer-islam.org/Inspiredhadith2.html

Fath said:
If they find any parchment that verifies that Jesus was crucified, they will consider it a false Hadith, and destroy it. They have found dozens of these such parchments, including some in Muhammad's own words, which state specifically that Jesus was crucified.
Please provide some proof of this.... I would be very interested.

Fath said:
The truth is, hard line Muslims have been taught to hate Christians and Jews, and anything that goes against that view- even from the mouth of Muhammad- will be regarded as false.

They don't know what love is, because they don't know Christ.
I agree

Regards
Gary
 
Acknowledging that Jesus is Lord is in no way submitting to him.

Jesus said, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity". Matthew 7:21-23

The verse of scripture, Philippians 2:10 states that at the name of Jesus every knew should bow, of things in heaven (angels and all principalities of heaven), things in earth (those alive on the earth), and things under the earth (those that have died and are in the grave); and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Philippians 2:9-11

20 "Come, gather together,
and draw near, you fugitives of the nations.
Those who carry their wooden idols,
and pray to a god who cannot save,
have no knowledge. 21 Speak up and present [your case] -
yes, let them take counsel together.
Who predicted this long ago?
Who announced it from ancient times?
Was it not I, the Lord?
There is no other God but Me,
a righteous God and Savior;
there is no one except Me. 22 Turn to Me and be saved,
all the ends of the earth.
For I am God,
and there is no other. 23 By Myself I have sworn;
Truth has gone from My mouth,
a word that will not be revoked:
Every knee will bow to Me,
every tongue will swear allegiance. 24 It will be said to Me: Only in the Lord
is righteousness and strength."
All who are incensed against Him
will come to Him and be put to shame. 25 All the descendants of Israel
will be justified and find glory through the Lord.
Isaiah 45:20-25


All will be judged by the one that they discover is Lord God, Jesus Christ, and they will bow to their knees and confess with their tongues that Jesus Christ is Lord. This does not deliver them from their eternal destiny of condemnation and everlasting fire if they were unbelievers.

If one is not born of God they will not enter into the Kingdom of God, they will be condemned.

Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."

Nicodemus answered and said unto him, "How can these things be?"

Jesus answered and said unto him, "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God".
John 3:5-21


Those that believe are not condemned but those that believe not are condemned already.

When Jesus separates the believers from the unbelievers, they are sent in two directions. The believers are sent to eternal life, and the unbelievers are sent to everlasting fire and punishment.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. Matthew 25:41-46

 
Fath said:
With all due respect, your accusations are unfounded and untrue. All will bow to Christ in submission; this is written within the bible. Every knee will bow.

Are we to exclude Muslims and other faiths from this? Will Christ not be their Lord? Will Islamic Muslims still exist?

All will submit to Christ, but will all be judged by God the same way? Will the submission of many come too late? Think about this.

All will be forced to acknowledge the truth of Christ and be subject to it. But that by no means provides an escape route from the judgment.

Despite the forgiveness of sins, there will be no time for repentance at the end of days. Therefore, you will be judged by God based upon your actions and deeds, but if you have no good deeds due to running out of time to enact a repentance, then you will have no fruit to give to the Lord our God.

Yet, those of us who heard His voice, and turned from sin while upon the earth, and did the works our Father desired of us, we are those who will bear the fruits of our labors to the Father, and with all sins forgiven, and the fruits of our labors in hand, we shall be a walking evidence of the work of Christ.

Yes, all will surrender, all will be forgiven, and all will bow their knee.

But not all will escape the judgment.

It is my belief that yes, through Christ we will all be forgiven our sins. But is the forgiveness of sins all that is required to escape the judgment? And what will we be judged of? Will we be judged on our sins?

How often do we see Christ speaking of the rewards of heaven? And what are our rewards associated with?

Mat 6:1 Take heed that you do not do your merciful deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward with your Father in Heaven

Mat 6:4 so that your merciful deeds may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret Himself shall reward you openly.


It has been written that faith without works is dead. What of those who repent, get baptised, yet do nothing? If they live the rest of their lives absolutely sinless, yet do nothing for God or mankind, then what have they gained? What rewards have they shored up in heaven?

Being forgiven of our sins is only half the battle. Therefore, how then can we be judged on sins alone? If we are forgiven of our sins, how then can we be judged at all if there's nothing else to judge us for?

Will you escape the judgment just because you are sinless?

I say a resounding no.

When we are judged the justice of God will be righteous. The reward of that justice will not be based upon sin, but upon our deeds. God will give greater rewards to those who shored their treasures in heaven while they were upon the earth. The treasures you shore up in heaven will be the rememberance of your deeds.

Mat 19:21 Jesus said to him, If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in Heaven. And come, follow Me.

Luk 12:34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Thus, our hearts must always be in heaven, and not beholden to the things of this earth. We must do the works for the glory of God and not to save our souls. For if we are selfish to do the works for our own benefit, then our motives become clear to our intercessor; Christ. He can see within our hearts and see our selfishness, and if we knock upon his door and say to him:

Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your name, and through Your name throw out demons, and through Your name do many wonderful works?"

But then he shall reply:

Mat 7:23 And then I will say to them, "I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness!"

As you can see, those who knocked on his door are those who heard his word, yet failed to adopt the heart of Christ as their own. They did the works, but for all the wrong reasons.

"Compassion."

What an incredible word "compassion" is. To reach out to someone desperately in need- not because of wanting to shore treasure in heaven- but because YOU have compassion and love for them; this is the greatest treasure.

"Have love for one another."

Will you do this just because it's a commandment from Christ? If you do, then you are not feeling anything for those whom you claim you love. Put your heart into it, not only for the love of God, but because you have love, and you feel love, and you give the greatest gift away that God gave to you; love

And don't think about your reward in heaven, but be humble in your works and your thoughts. For the works that you do, do not belong to you, for it is the Father within you; it is He who does the works.

Therefore, how do we claim our treasure in heaven when it is the Father who does the works through us? We don't. We can't.

It will be God who gives us the treasure in heaven, for all things belong to Him. It will be God who rewards us, and not because we deserve it, but simply because we loved Him, and we showed it by giving His love and His compassion to others.

And the greatest treasure in heaven is simply God Himself.

:angel:
 
This isnt the first time that Americans have tried to either degrade, corrupt or as we see here ban the Quran...

There has been a modified version of the Quran, calle "The True Furqan"....some say thats a play on words to give F Quran, quess what the F stands for?

Its been for 7 years now, published by 2 American firms, Omega 2001 and Wine Press, and one of the places its being distrubuted to children in Private English schools in Kuwait.

It has only 77 Chapters, out of the true original 144. It starts every Chapter with the Trinity rather than praise to Allah. It even goes as far as attacking Allah!

"The purpose of The True Furqan is a tool of evangelism, because so far we have not found a breakthrough way to reach the Muslim world for Christ," Al-Mahdy (Omega 2001) said. "We have tried medicine, schools, books, movies and many other methods.

So is the way to go about bringing people to ur religion, by corrupting their Holy Book and passing it on to them? And look at all the other tools they have used. Why must these people enforce their religion on others?


So u think the Quran is a threat? Look at what these Christians are doing?
 
You offer no proof for your allegation.

There is no need to have a modified Quran.

The Quran and the Hadith are enough to sink Islam. Anyone who reads them with an open mind would see the contradictions and the absurdities of Muhammad's own power game, the Jihad.

:o
 
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