Would you be in support of banning the Koran in the USA?

[Gary]

It was the war-lord Muhammad who issued this challenge:

• "Say: 'If the whole/ of mankind and Jinns/ Were to gather together/ to produce the like/ of this Qur'an they could not produce/ the like thereof, even if/ They backed each other/ With help and support'" (The Holy Qur'an, Surah 17:88).

So why are you so worried?

I think that the Furgan is more logical than the Quran and it contains no Jihad verses.

Muhammad's challenge has been met... and bettered.

This is not the first time.

 

[Solo]

It is my belief that yes, through Christ we will all be forgiven our sins. But is the forgiveness of sins all that is required to escape the judgment? And what will we be judged of? Will we be judged on our sins?

How often do we see Christ speaking of the rewards of heaven? And what are our rewards associated with?

Mat 6:1 Take heed that you do not do your merciful deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward with your Father in Heaven

Mat 6:4 so that your merciful deeds may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret Himself shall reward you openly.

It has been written that faith without works is dead. What of those who repent, get baptised, yet do nothing? If they live the rest of their lives absolutely sinless, yet do nothing for God or mankind, then what have they gained? What rewards have they shored up in heaven?

Being forgiven of our sins is only half the battle. Therefore, how then can we be judged on sins alone? If we are forgiven of our sins, how then can we be judged at all if there's nothing else to judge us for?

Will you escape the judgment just because you are sinless?

I say a resounding no.

When we are judged the justice of God will be righteous. The reward of that justice will not be based upon sin, but upon our deeds. God will give greater rewards to those who shored their treasures in heaven while they were upon the earth. The treasures you shore up in heaven will be the rememberance of your deeds.

Mat 19:21 Jesus said to him, If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in Heaven. And come, follow Me.

Luk 12:34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Thus, our hearts must always be in heaven, and not beholden to the things of this earth. We must do the works for the glory of God and not to save our souls. For if we are selfish to do the works for our own benefit, then our motives become clear to our intercessor; Christ. He can see within our hearts and see our selfishness, and if we knock upon his door and say to him:

Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your name, and through Your name throw out demons, and through Your name do many wonderful works?"

But then he shall reply:

Mat 7:23 And then I will say to them, "I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness!"

As you can see, those who knocked on his door are those who heard his word, yet failed to adopt the heart of Christ as their own. They did the works, but for all the wrong reasons.

"Compassion."

What an incredible word "compassion" is. To reach out to someone desperately in need- not because of wanting to shore treasure in heaven- but because YOU have compassion and love for them; this is the greatest treasure.

"Have love for one another."

Will you do this just because it's a commandment from Christ? If you do, then you are not feeling anything for those whom you claim you love. Put your heart into it, not only for the love of God, but because you have love, and you feel love, and you give the greatest gift away that God gave to you; love

And don't think about your reward in heaven, but be humble in your works and your thoughts. For the works that you do, do not belong to you, for it is the Father within you; it is He who does the works.

Therefore, how do we claim our treasure in heaven when it is the Father who does the works through us? We don't. We can't.

It will be God who gives us the treasure in heaven, for all things belong to Him. It will be God who rewards us, and not because we deserve it, but simply because we loved Him, and we showed it by giving His love and His compassion to others.

And the greatest treasure in heaven is simply God Himself.

:angel:

What Do Jesus And The Bible Say About Hell?

There are alot of opinions about hell, the last thing that you need is another one. So, lets see what Jesus and the Bible say about hell, there is no higher authority.

If you disagree with that, then the burden of proof falls at your feet to disprove what Jesus taught and his resurrection after three days in the tomb. Jesus prophesised that he would in fact rise again after three days.

The resurrection is a historical fact, therefore, this validates everything that Jesus taught, thus proving that he is God in the flesh and the only way to heaven since he alone paid the penalty for our sins on the cross.

Take the time to carefully examine the historic, manuscript, prophetic, biblical, and the internal evidence of the Gospel's themselves.

Hell Is Eternal Torment:

"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."
Daniel 12:2


"The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?"
Isaiah 33:14


"And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh."
Isaiah 66:24


"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels."
Matthew 25:41


"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power."
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9


"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit."
Hebrews 6:1-3


"Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever."
Jude 13


"And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."
Mark 9:47-48


"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
Matthew 25:46


"And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."
Revelation 14:11


"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, From whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
(Revelation 20:10-15)




Judment In The Old Testament:

"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."
Daniel 12:2


"The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?"
Isaiah 33:14


"And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh."
Isaiah 66:24


"For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil."
Ecclesiastes 12:14


"Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish."
Psalm 1:5-6


"And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. But ye should say, Why persecute we him, seeing the root of the matter is found in me? Be ye afraid of the sword: for wrath bringeth the punishments of the sword, that ye may know there is a judgment."
Job 19:29



Many People Go To Hell:

"Enter in at the narrow gate; for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be who go in that way; because narrow is the gate, and hard is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
Matthew 7:13


Alot Of People Who Call Themselves Christians Are Going To Hell:

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Matthew 7:21-23


You Should Take Drastic Measures (Not Literal) To Avoid Hell:

"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.''
Mark 9:43-48



There Is No Escape From Hell:

"There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence."
Luke 16:19-26


After Death Comes The Judgment:

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."
Hebrews 9:27-28


Ok, So How Do We Get To Heaven?


Salvation Is A Free Gift Apart From Our Good Works Through The Atoning Death Of Christ In Our Place:

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast."
Ephesians 2:8-9


"Not by works of righteousness which you have done, but according to his mercy he saved us."
Titus 3:5


"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."
Romans 4:4-5


"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."
Galatians 2:16


"Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."
Romans 11:5-6


"Be it known unto you, therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins; And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses."
Acts 13:38-39


"I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"
Galatians 2:21


"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ, our Lord."
Romans 6:23


"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
Romans 10:9


Jesus Is The Only Way To Heaven:

"I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh to the Father, but by me."
John 14:6


"Niether is there salvation in any other; for there is no other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
Acts 4:12


"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man, Christ Jesus."
1 Timothy 2:5


"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber...Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture."
John 10:1,7-9


"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father."
1 John 2:22-24


"Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God."
1 John 4:15


"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him...He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."
1 John 5:1, 10-12


"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him."
John 5:23


Dear Friend,

Could I please have a minute of your time? I humbly ask you to consider the fate of your eternal soul.



"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
John 3:16


Friend, God loved you so much that he sent Jesus to take your place on the cross. You see, the penalty for sin is death and an eternity separated from a just and Holy God in hell. God is so holy that He cannot even look upon evil (Habakkuk 1:13). In this state of sin you are God's enemy and you must be reconciled to Him, His way.


"God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day."
Psalm 7:11


"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."
Romans 3:23


"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
Romans 5:8


"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ, our Lord."
Romans 6:23


Friend you do not earn salvation, it is a gift from God.



"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast."
Ephesians 2:8-9


"Not by works of righteousness which you have done, but according to his mercy he saved us..."
Titus 3:5


"Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."
Romans 5:1


If the Sovereign God is moving you to take that step of faith and trust in Him; confess to Jesus that you are a sinner and then turn from them. Ask Him to forgive you of your sins and to come into your heart, believing that He took your place on the cross to pay the penalty that you deserved. Believing that He rose again bodily on third day, and that there is no other way to heaven, but by His finished work on the cross.


"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
Romans 10:9


"Be it known unto you, therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins; And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses."
Acts 13:38-39


"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."
Romans 4:4-5


There is only one way to God, and it is through Jesus Christ, He alone paid the price for the sins of mankind.


"I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh to the Father, but by me."
John 14:6


"Neither is there salvation in any other; for there is no other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
Acts 4:12


"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man, Christ Jesus."
1 Timothy 2:5


Here's Something To Ponder...


Here's something to think about, let's say that I'm wrong about the Bible, let's assume that it is false, 50 years from now it won't matter, we will both be dead and buried pushing up daisies.

But, if it is true, 50 years from now, you will be in unspeakable agony, wishing for all of eternity that you had just one minute back on earth to repent of your sins, but, there will be no second chance my friend, you are in hell and there is no way out.

Have you ever thought of this? Nobody is guaranteed tomorrow, it could be you, or me, who is translated into eternity this very day! People spend so much time planning for the next 10, 15, 20 years, all the while neglecting eternity. That is very foolish indeed, be wise and prepare to meet your Maker.

Take the time to carefully examine the historic, manuscript, prophetic, biblical, and the internal evidence of the Gospel's themselves.


"Whereas ye know not what shall be on the next day. For what is your life? It is even a vapor that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away."
James 4:14




Retrieved from http://www.myfortress.org/Hell.html

 

[Fath]

It is my belief that yes, through Christ we will all be forgiven our sins. But is the forgiveness of sins all that is required to escape the judgment? And what will we be judged of? Will we be judged on our sins?

How often do we see Christ speaking of the rewards of heaven? And what are our rewards associated with?

Mat 6:1 Take heed that you do not do your merciful deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward with your Father in Heaven

Mat 6:4 so that your merciful deeds may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret Himself shall reward you openly.

It has been written that faith without works is dead. What of those who repent, get baptised, yet do nothing? If they live the rest of their lives absolutely sinless, yet do nothing for God or mankind, then what have they gained? What rewards have they shored up in heaven?

Being forgiven of our sins is only half the battle. Therefore, how then can we be judged on sins alone? If we are forgiven of our sins, how then can we be judged at all if there's nothing else to judge us for?

Will you escape the judgment just because you are sinless?

I say a resounding no.

When we are judged the justice of God will be righteous. The reward of that justice will not be based upon sin, but upon our deeds. God will give greater rewards to those who shored their treasures in heaven while they were upon the earth. The treasures you shore up in heaven will be the rememberance of your deeds.

Mat 19:21 Jesus said to him, If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in Heaven. And come, follow Me.

Luk 12:34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Thus, our hearts must always be in heaven, and not beholden to the things of this earth. We must do the works for the glory of God and not to save our souls. For if we are selfish to do the works for our own benefit, then our motives become clear to our intercessor; Christ. He can see within our hearts and see our selfishness, and if we knock upon his door and say to him:

Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your name, and through Your name throw out demons, and through Your name do many wonderful works?"

But then he shall reply:

Mat 7:23 And then I will say to them, "I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness!"

As you can see, those who knocked on his door are those who heard his word, yet failed to adopt the heart of Christ as their own. They did the works, but for all the wrong reasons.

"Compassion."

What an incredible word "compassion" is. To reach out to someone desperately in need- not because of wanting to shore treasure in heaven- but because YOU have compassion and love for them; this is the greatest treasure.

"Have love for one another."

Will you do this just because it's a commandment from Christ? If you do, then you are not feeling anything for those whom you claim you love. Put your heart into it, not only for the love of God, but because you have love, and you feel love, and you give the greatest gift away that God gave to you; love

And don't think about your reward in heaven, but be humble in your works and your thoughts. For the works that you do, do not belong to you, for it is the Father within you; it is He who does the works.

Therefore, how do we claim our treasure in heaven when it is the Father who does the works through us? We don't. We can't.

It will be God who gives us the treasure in heaven, for all things belong to Him. It will be God who rewards us, and not because we deserve it, but simply because we loved Him, and we showed it by giving His love and His compassion to others.

And the greatest treasure in heaven is simply God Himself.

:angel:

What Do Jesus And The Bible Say About Hell?

There are alot of opinions about hell, the last thing that you need is another one. So, lets see what Jesus and the Bible say about hell, there is no higher authority.

If you disagree with that, then the burden of proof falls at your feet to disprove what Jesus taught and his resurrection after three days in the tomb. Jesus prophesised that he would in fact rise again after three days.

The resurrection is a historical fact, therefore, this validates everything that Jesus taught, thus proving that he is God in the flesh and the only way to heaven since he alone paid the penalty for our sins on the cross.

Take the time to carefully examine the historic, manuscript, prophetic, biblical, and the internal evidence of the Gospel's themselves.

Hell Is Eternal Torment:

"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."
Daniel 12:2


"The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?"
Isaiah 33:14


"And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh."
Isaiah 66:24


"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels."
Matthew 25:41


"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power."
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9


"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit."
Hebrews 6:1-3


"Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever."
Jude 13


"And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."
Mark 9:47-48


"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
Matthew 25:46


"And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."
Revelation 14:11


"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, From whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
(Revelation 20:10-15)




Judment In The Old Testament:

"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."
Daniel 12:2


"The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?"
Isaiah 33:14


"And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh."
Isaiah 66:24


"For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil."
Ecclesiastes 12:14


"Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish."
Psalm 1:5-6


"And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. But ye should say, Why persecute we him, seeing the root of the matter is found in me? Be ye afraid of the sword: for wrath bringeth the punishments of the sword, that ye may know there is a judgment."
Job 19:29



Many People Go To Hell:

"Enter in at the narrow gate; for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be who go in that way; because narrow is the gate, and hard is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
Matthew 7:13


Alot Of People Who Call Themselves Christians Are Going To Hell:

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Matthew 7:21-23


You Should Take Drastic Measures (Not Literal) To Avoid Hell:

"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.''
Mark 9:43-48



There Is No Escape From Hell:

"There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence."
Luke 16:19-26


After Death Comes The Judgment:

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."
Hebrews 9:27-28


Ok, So How Do We Get To Heaven?


Salvation Is A Free Gift Apart From Our Good Works Through The Atoning Death Of Christ In Our Place:

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast."
Ephesians 2:8-9


"Not by works of righteousness which you have done, but according to his mercy he saved us."
Titus 3:5


"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."
Romans 4:4-5


"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."
Galatians 2:16


"Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."
Romans 11:5-6


"Be it known unto you, therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins; And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses."
Acts 13:38-39


"I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"
Galatians 2:21


"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ, our Lord."
Romans 6:23


"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
Romans 10:9


Jesus Is The Only Way To Heaven:

"I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh to the Father, but by me."
John 14:6


"Niether is there salvation in any other; for there is no other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
Acts 4:12


"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man, Christ Jesus."
1 Timothy 2:5


"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber...Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture."
John 10:1,7-9


"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father."
1 John 2:22-24


"Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God."
1 John 4:15


"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him...He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."
1 John 5:1, 10-12


"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him."
John 5:23


Dear Friend,

Could I please have a minute of your time? I humbly ask you to consider the fate of your eternal soul.



"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
John 3:16


Friend, God loved you so much that he sent Jesus to take your place on the cross. You see, the penalty for sin is death and an eternity separated from a just and Holy God in hell. God is so holy that He cannot even look upon evil (Habakkuk 1:13). In this state of sin you are God's enemy and you must be reconciled to Him, His way.


"God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day."
Psalm 7:11


"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."
Romans 3:23


"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
Romans 5:8


"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ, our Lord."
Romans 6:23


Friend you do not earn salvation, it is a gift from God.



"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast."
Ephesians 2:8-9


"Not by works of righteousness which you have done, but according to his mercy he saved us..."
Titus 3:5


"Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."
Romans 5:1


If the Sovereign God is moving you to take that step of faith and trust in Him; confess to Jesus that you are a sinner and then turn from them. Ask Him to forgive you of your sins and to come into your heart, believing that He took your place on the cross to pay the penalty that you deserved. Believing that He rose again bodily on third day, and that there is no other way to heaven, but by His finished work on the cross.


"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
Romans 10:9


"Be it known unto you, therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins; And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses."
Acts 13:38-39


"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."
Romans 4:4-5


There is only one way to God, and it is through Jesus Christ, He alone paid the price for the sins of mankind.


"I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh to the Father, but by me."
John 14:6


"Neither is there salvation in any other; for there is no other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
Acts 4:12


"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man, Christ Jesus."
1 Timothy 2:5


Here's Something To Ponder...


Here's something to think about, let's say that I'm wrong about the Bible, let's assume that it is false, 50 years from now it won't matter, we will both be dead and buried pushing up daisies.

But, if it is true, 50 years from now, you will be in unspeakable agony, wishing for all of eternity that you had just one minute back on earth to repent of your sins, but, there will be no second chance my friend, you are in hell and there is no way out.

Have you ever thought of this? Nobody is guaranteed tomorrow, it could be you, or me, who is translated into eternity this very day! People spend so much time planning for the next 10, 15, 20 years, all the while neglecting eternity. That is very foolish indeed, be wise and prepare to meet your Maker.

Take the time to carefully examine the historic, manuscript, prophetic, biblical, and the internal evidence of the Gospel's themselves.


"Whereas ye know not what shall be on the next day. For what is your life? It is even a vapor that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away."
James 4:14




Retrieved from http://www.myfortress.org/Hell.html

The greatest words ever spoken in the bible are just a handful of small verses by Jesus:

Mat 22:37 Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

All the written laws, and every word the prophets spoke, is all summed up in the above.

Hell does not matter to me. It is not a tool I use to love someone with. It is not something I use to witness with. I don't look at someone of different faith and condemn them to hell. I myself am not worthy enough to escape hell, but only by the mercy and grace of God.

Don't you see? If we love God, then we love all that God represents. And if we love each other, then we show our love for God, and all that He represents.

None of us needs to know much more than that, because love is what it's all about. It's what it's always been about. The whole message of Jesus is about loving God and each other.

For if we love God will we then sin? Will we hate our neighbor? Will we commit adultry, lie, covet, fasle witness et al? No, for if we trully love God, how then can we sin?

And if we trully love one another can we sin? Do we pick and choose who we love and show compassion to? Did Jesus? Did he not heal the Greek woman's child? Did he not do the works?

Jesus did the works. He showed his faith by the works he did. He healed the sick, fed the hungry, and loved all of mankind.

He died because he loves you. He died because of his compassion for you. The greatest work the man ever did was die for all of us; a sacrifice to demonstrate the greatest love known to mankind.

Hell is not my focus in my life. The judgment is not by focus in my life. The words of the prophets, apostles, or disciples are not the focus of my life.

It is so simple; if you love God and each other, that love will manifest itself through you, and you will not be able to refrain from doing the works because of your compassion and love.

Faith alone?

Jam 2:19 You believe that there is one God, you do well; even the demons believe and tremble.
Jam 2:20 But will you know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jam 2:22 Do you see how faith worked with his works, and from the works faith was made complete?
Jam 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was imputed to him for righteousness, and he was called the friend of God."
Jam 2:24 You see then how a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

 

[Solo]

8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: 9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound. 10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; 18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. 24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. 2 Timothy 2:22-26

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:9-17

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matthew 28:18-20

The most important words that Jesus spoke, Then said Jesus unto his disciples, "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me". Matthew 16:24


"Enter in at the narrow gate; for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be who go in that way; because narrow is the gate, and hard is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Matthew 7:13


"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Matthew 7:21-23


"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.'' Mark 9:43-48


"There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence." Luke 16:19-26

 

[Bilal]

It was the war-lord Muhammad who issued this challenge:

• "Say: 'If the whole/ of mankind and Jinns/ Were to gather together/ to produce the like/ of this Qur'an they could not produce/ the like thereof, even if/ They backed each other/ With help and support'" (The Holy Qur'an, Surah 17:88).

So why are you so worried?

I think that the Furgan is more logical than the Quran and it contains no Jihad verses.

Muhammad's challenge has been met... and bettered.

This is not the first time.

Where in that verse does it say its ok to distort the Holy Quran? What it is in fact saying is such is the majestic Quran, that it cannot be duplicated to distortion and succeed as a successor. Allah has said that the Quran shall remain unaltered until the Day of Judgement. How ull say, how has this been allowed to become altered? The answer- this is not the Quran, it is a forgery. The true and perfect Quran shall never be altered. Is said earlier, there are many people who have memorized the Quran, i know many, some as young as 11. SO if some1 was to strut around reciting false verses, he would be stopped and told that he was indeed incorrect. IIRC, there arent such a number of ppl who have memorized the Bible are they?

This is besides the point. My point is why do these Evangelicals need to distort and blatantly change someones Holy Book, FOR THE PURE CAUSE OF CONVERTING THEM TO THEIR OWN RELIGION. the matey says it himslef, they have tried everything from medicine, schools, education, and they have all failed..now attack what is right at the heart of the religion..the Quran...

Surely you must agree with me that this is nothing else but DECEIT in order to further ones religion?
Is this the way your religion teaches you to spread faith?
Or is it that the Muslims that have been targetted before had too strong a faith to be corrupted?
Or was it that their message was too weak for anyone o accept over Islam?

Answer these qs please...thnx

 

[Bilal]

Fath: on your very good point of taking a risk and gamble on ones eternal destiny, i agree with you. Ppl of the world will live 4 60, maybe a little more years, but then what? They'll spend etrnity in either of one places: Heaven or Hell. This qs of yours needs to be presneted to the Atheists and those who reject faith...

Bcz if u ask say a Muslim, its a somewhat different matter...bcz a Muslim can ask you the very same qs...and ull answer will no doubt be that u have v. strong faith in Xianity...but then also the Muslim will be in the same position with unmovebale faith in their Islam...so its a dead lock isnt it?

 

[Gary]

It was the war-lord Muhammad who issued this challenge:

• "Say: 'If the whole/ of mankind and Jinns/ Were to gather together/ to produce the like/ of this Qur'an they could not produce/ the like thereof, even if/ They backed each other/ With help and support'" (The Holy Qur'an, Surah 17:88).

So why are you so worried?

I think that the Furgan is more logical than the Quran and it contains no Jihad verses.

Muhammad's challenge has been met... and bettered.

This is not the first time.

Where in that verse does it say its ok to distort the Holy Quran?

The challenge is to produce "the like thereof"... and that has been done.

What it is in fact saying is such is the majestic Quran, that it cannot be duplicated to distortion and succeed as a successor.

It does NOT say that. It issues a challenge. The challenge has been met.

Allah has said that the Quran shall remain unaltered until the Day of Judgement.

The Quran HAS been altered... many times.

How ull say, how has this been allowed to become altered?

The Quran you have in your hands HAS been altered.

The answer- this is not the Quran, it is a forgery. The true and perfect Quran shall never be altered.

Not true... the Quran has been altered. Many times.

Is said earlier, there are many people who have memorized the Quran, i know many, some as young as 11. SO if some1 was to strut around reciting false verses, he would be stopped and told that he was indeed incorrect.

History and the Hadith are clear evidence that the Quran has been altered.

IIRC, there arent such a number of ppl who have memorized the Bible are they?

The Bible is 3-4 times longer than Muhammad's booklet.

This is besides the point. My point is why do these Evangelicals need to distort and blatantly change someones Holy Book, FOR THE PURE CAUSE OF CONVERTING THEM TO THEIR OWN RELIGION.

Not true. It is in response to Muhammad's challenge.

the matey says it himslef, they have tried everything from medicine, schools, education, and they have all failed..now attack what is right at the heart of the religion..the Quran...

I have also already said it... there is no need to "attack" the Quran. Read it carefully and you will find the contradictions. Read the Hadith and you will see that Muhammad (by his deeds) is a false prophet.

Surely you must agree with me that this is nothing else but DECEIT in order to further ones religion? Is this the way your religion teaches you to spread faith?

The Furan is not deceit; it is a response to Muhammad's challenge. It disproves the Quran.

Or is it that the Muslims that have been targetted before had too strong a faith to be corrupted?Or was it that their message was too weak for anyone o accept over Islam?

The Bible tells us that many will be misled by false prophets.

However, many Muslims have come to see the light.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Testimonies/index.html

 

[Bilal]

Gary, you are misleading this discussion...

"Say: 'If the whole/ of mankind and Jinns/ Were to gather together/ to produce the like/ of this Qur'an they could not produce/ the like thereof, even if/ They backed each other/ With help and support'" (The Holy Qur'an, Surah 17:88).

Now look at it clearly. It is not offering a challenge in the sense that it orders everyone to go out and make distortion of the Quran. But in fact, it says that IF (keyword) someone was to do so, they "could not produce" it and succeed with it. Of course if you take it as a physical sense, anyone can start writing their own rubbish and pass it off as the TRUE Quran (as these Christians have done so), but the question is, will it prevail? Of course not.

Who can be the judge to say whether or not if is a rightoeus succeessor to the Quran. OBviously those who have the Quran, the Muslims. And they take it as a farce. Now when someone can replicate the Quran, pass it off as the truth, AND OBTAIN THE UNANIMOUS APPROVAL OF MUSLIMS WORLDWIDE, then you can say the so-called challeneg has been met and won. Until then, you'll have to live with reality.

As i have stressed before, rather than saying it is perfectally ok to distort the Quran, it is emphasisng the TRUTH of the Quran and saying that it will be protected. This verse is at question here, so dont start on the whole "the quran is false/been distorted" thing. Im merely rectifying your misunderstaning.

Yet is it humourous to see u defend such an action...is that what Christianity teaches you? To go by whatever means neccessary to ge ppl to come to ur religion, even if it means doing it in a way that is morally wrong.

Simple: Do you condone the distortion of a religions HOLY bookand then passing it off as the REAL one, in order for your own gain?

What the Christians are doing here is simple, it is cowardice to say the least. Its clear for anyone to see. They say they have tried all other devious methods, (and failed) now they want to try this..shameful

 

[Fath]

Fath: on your very good point of taking a risk and gamble on ones eternal destiny, i agree with you. Ppl of the world will live 4 60, maybe a little more years, but then what? They'll spend etrnity in either of one places: Heaven or Hell. This qs of yours needs to be presneted to the Atheists and those who reject faith...

Bcz if u ask say a Muslim, its a somewhat different matter...bcz a Muslim can ask you the very same qs...and ull answer will no doubt be that u have v. strong faith in Xianity...but then also the Muslim will be in the same position with unmovebale faith in their Islam...so its a dead lock isnt it?

My faith is not in Christianity; it is in God, as taught to me by Christ. You, on the other hand, have faith in Islam, as taught to you by Muhammad.

You accuse Christians of joining gods with Allah as in the Trinity, yet most of Muhammad's commands to Muslims are:

"Obey Allah and His Messenger."

Muhammad joined himself to your God Allah, and you and millions of Muslims can't even see it. He made it so that whatever he said was to be understood as coming from Allah. And with this evidence all through the Quran, you think you can point your fingers at Christians? How is it you cannot see the hypocracy?

There is no disputing the fact that Muslims hate the Christians and Jews. Not with me. I have been in Islam, and I know what is taught on your middle eastern TV stations and radio broadcasts. State sanctioned broadcasts condemning Christians and Jews, calling Jews apes and pigs and thrusting hatred to a feverish pitch.

There is no comparrison of the Lord God of the Christians and Jews and that of the Islamic god of Allah. They are not the same god whatsoever, in any way, shape, or form.

Therefore, this dead-lock you present is not one based upon differing opinions on God, but of one based upon the God of the Christians and Jews, and the god Allah of Muslims.

 

[Bilal]

Fath: on your very good point of taking a risk and gamble on ones eternal destiny, i agree with you. Ppl of the world will live 4 60, maybe a little more years, but then what? They'll spend etrnity in either of one places: Heaven or Hell. This qs of yours needs to be presneted to the Atheists and those who reject faith...

Bcz if u ask say a Muslim, its a somewhat different matter...bcz a Muslim can ask you the very same qs...and ull answer will no doubt be that u have v. strong faith in Xianity...but then also the Muslim will be in the same position with unmovebale faith in their Islam...so its a dead lock isnt it?

My faith is not in Christianity; it is in God, as taught to me by Christ. You, on the other hand, have faith in Islam, as taught to you by Muhammad.

You accuse Christians of joining gods with Allah as in the Trinity, yet most of Muhammad's commands to Muslims are:

"Obey Allah and His Messenger."

Muhammad joined himself to your God Allah, and you and millions of Muslims can't even see it. He made it so that whatever he said was to be understood as coming from Allah. And with this evidence all through the Quran, you think you can point your fingers at Christians? How is it you cannot see the hypocracy?

There is no disputing the fact that Muslims hate the Christians and Jews. Not with me. I have been in Islam, and I know what is taught on your middle eastern TV stations and radio broadcasts. State sanctioned broadcasts condemning Christians and Jews, calling Jews apes and pigs and thrusting hatred to a feverish pitch.

There is no comparrison of the Lord God of the Christians and Jews and that of the Islamic god of Allah. They are not the same god whatsoever, in any way, shape, or form.

Therefore, this dead-lock you present is not one based upon differing opinions on God, but of one based upon the God of the Christians and Jews, and the god Allah of Muslims.

Is that a quote from the Quran or have you summarised your understanding of it?

One. You acknowledge the fact that Christians join Christ to God.
Muslims dont. Allah is soley to be worshipped. We dont worship Muhammad.

The Trinity is an insult to God himself. It is giving 3 forms to something that should have only one. So whose guilty of adjoining partners with God.

Hate the Christians and Jews? To be honest i dont hate Christians or Jews. It just so happens that those murders who are commiting grave atrocities against my fellow brothers and sisters, are Christians and Jews. When it comes to murder, no-one can out-strip the award from Christians.

 

[Fath]

Is that a quote from the Quran or have you summarised your understanding of it?

One. You acknowledge the fact that Christians join Christ to God.
Muslims dont. Allah is soley to be worshipped. We dont worship Muhammad.

The Trinity is an insult to God himself. It is giving 3 forms to something that should have only one. So whose guilty of adjoining partners with God.

Hate the Christians and Jews? To be honest i dont hate Christians or Jews. It just so happens that those murders who are commiting grave atrocities against my fellow brothers and sisters, are Christians and Jews. When it comes to murder, no-one can out-strip the award from Christians.

You all say that you don't worship Muhammad, but every single last bit of evidence strongly indicates that you do.

1. You have Muhammad's gravesite set up as a largest gravesite shrine on earth.

2. Muslims are to turn towards Mecca- the direction of Muhammad's grave- when they pray.

3. When the dead are buried, they are placed on their sides in the grave, facing the direction of Muhammad's grave in Mecca.

4. When professing the Shahada, all new converts must state, "There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is THE Messenger of Allah." Nobody can be accepted as a Muslim UNLESS Muhammad's name is included in the Shahada with Allah. This is definitely joining Muhammad to Allah, no matter how you slice and dice it.

5. You embellish Muhammad's legacy by stating things such as he was illiterate, and thus the Quran is a miracle because he was illiterate. You also create legends of Muhammad flying to heaven during his lifetime.

6. When the cartoons of Muhammad were released, Muslims went nuts all over the world, and their excuse was "Muhammad is a prophet of Allah. We would get this upset if it were ANY prophet of Allah." Yet, when the movie "The Passion of the Christ" came out, why then didn't Muslims go nuts all over the world?

7. The Quran states specifically that Allah does not make a distinction between ANY of the Messengers, yet Muslims exalt Muhammad over all the prophets?

As far as Christians being murders, that's all ancient history and largely went out with the Crusades. Today, most American soldiers are Christians by birth, but hardly any practice the faith. Thus, it is not a religious body that is in Iraq, but a government body. Muslims automatically view America as a Christian nation, and automatically assume that any military action is Christian motivated.

You don't see Americans cutting off people's heads and shouting "Allah Akbar" do you? You don't see them killing anyone and praising god do you? NO you don't. You only see Muslims doing that, so don't talk to me about who is committing muders in the name of their religion, because it's clearly not Americans.

Period.

 

[Soma-Sight]

4. When professing the Shahada, all new converts must state, "There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is THE Messenger of Allah." Nobody can be accepted as a Muslim UNLESS Muhammad's name is included in the Shahada with Allah. This is definitely joining Muhammad to Allah, no matter how you slice and dice it.

When professing Being Born Again, all new converts must state, "There is no God but Jesus , and the Bible is the Word." Nobody can be accepted as a Christian UNLESS the Bible is venerated to to the point of worship. No Bible Book = No Jesus This is definitely joining Jesus to a Book, no matter how you slice and dice it.

:P :

Replace Muhammed with the Bible and we get the same logic!

 

[Fath]

4. When professing the Shahada, all new converts must state, "There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is THE Messenger of Allah." Nobody can be accepted as a Muslim UNLESS Muhammad's name is included in the Shahada with Allah. This is definitely joining Muhammad to Allah, no matter how you slice and dice it.

When professing Being Born Again, all new converts must state, "There is no God but Jesus , and the Bible is the Word." Nobody can be accepted as a Christian UNLESS the Bible is venerated to to the point of worship. No Bible Book = No Jesus This is definitely joining Jesus to a Book, no matter how you slice and dice it.

:P :

Replace Muhammed with the Bible and we get the same logic!

I agree, and for the record, I am not a trinitarian.

 

[Gary]

The Trinity is an insult to God himself. It is giving 3 forms to something that should have only one. So whose guilty of adjoining partners with God.

Poor old Muhammad was very confused. He thought that the Trinity was

• (1) God the Father
  (2) Jesus the Son..... and
  (3) Mary the Mother!

:roll:

 

[Bilal]

Is that a quote from the Quran or have you summarised your understanding of it?

One. You acknowledge the fact that Christians join Christ to God.
Muslims dont. Allah is soley to be worshipped. We dont worship Muhammad.

The Trinity is an insult to God himself. It is giving 3 forms to something that should have only one. So whose guilty of adjoining partners with God.

Hate the Christians and Jews? To be honest i dont hate Christians or Jews. It just so happens that those murders who are commiting grave atrocities against my fellow brothers and sisters, are Christians and Jews. When it comes to murder, no-one can out-strip the award from Christians.

You all say that you don't worship Muhammad, but every single last bit of evidence strongly indicates that you do.

1. You have Muhammad's gravesite set up as a largest gravesite shrine on earth.

2. Muslims are to turn towards Mecca- the direction of Muhammad's grave- when they pray.

3. When the dead are buried, they are placed on their sides in the grave, facing the direction of Muhammad's grave in Mecca.

4. When professing the Shahada, all new converts must state, "There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is THE Messenger of Allah." Nobody can be accepted as a Muslim UNLESS Muhammad's name is included in the Shahada with Allah. This is definitely joining Muhammad to Allah, no matter how you slice and dice it.

5. You embellish Muhammad's legacy by stating things such as he was illiterate, and thus the Quran is a miracle because he was illiterate. You also create legends of Muhammad flying to heaven during his lifetime.

6. When the cartoons of Muhammad were released, Muslims went nuts all over the world, and their excuse was "Muhammad is a prophet of Allah. We would get this upset if it were ANY prophet of Allah." Yet, when the movie "The Passion of the Christ" came out, why then didn't Muslims go nuts all over the world?

7. The Quran states specifically that Allah does not make a distinction between ANY of the Messengers, yet Muslims exalt Muhammad over all the prophets?

As far as Christians being murders, that's all ancient history and largely went out with the Crusades. Today, most American soldiers are Christians by birth, but hardly any practice the faith. Thus, it is not a religious body that is in Iraq, but a government body. Muslims automatically view America as a Christian nation, and automatically assume that any military action is Christian motivated.

You don't see Americans cutting off people's heads and shouting "Allah Akbar" do you? You don't see them killing anyone and praising god do you? NO you don't. You only see Muslims doing that, so don't talk to me about who is committing muders in the name of their religion, because it's clearly not Americans.

Period.

Why dont u go to the library and brush up on your ignorance.

Muhammad's grave IS NOT IN MAKKAH, ITS IN MEDINAH....different city... :roll:

I could forgive you for that, which i do, but it was the way u mentioned it in a way as truth to further your argument.

Fundamental believe in Islam that Allah is ONE, has no son, wife, and isnt divide into multiple entites:

"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him. (The Noble Quran, 112:1-4)"

Narrated 'Umar: "I heard the Prophet saying, 'Do not exaggerate in praising me as the Christians praised the son of Mary, for I am only a Slave. So, call me the Slave of Allah and His Apostle.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Prophets, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 654)"

The above Noble Verses and Saying should be sufficient enough to prove that Muhammad peace be upon him is nothing but an apostle from Allah Almighty. He is in no way Allah Almighty Himself!

When looking at the shahada, it says that yes....to state clealry that Muhammad is a Messenger of Allah, it doesnt say he is or is equvialent to, but says he is a messenger of Allah. Its important to make the distinction there, so as not for one to confuse what Christians believe of Jesus to what Muslims think of Muhammad.

Care to elaborate on 5, please.

On the passion of the Christ, it does affect and hurt Muslims to see Isa being mocked etc. as we believe they were all Prophets of Allah. Dont think we would enjoy and humour ourselves in the mocking of Isa.

"Your point No. 7. The Quran states specifically that Allah does not make a distinction between ANY of the Messengers, yet Muslims exalt Muhammad over all the prophets?"

Ever occured to u that Muslim dosent equal Allah. Yes they are all Prophets of Allah. But Muhammad (saw) is the prophet of this current ummah or nation(of which i am of), Jesus didnt come down for me.

Your last point is a bit random, doesnt have anything to do with the discussion at hand.

 

[Bilal]

The Trinity is an insult to God himself. It is giving 3 forms to something that should have only one. So whose guilty of adjoining partners with God.

Poor old Muhammad was very confused. He thought that the Trinity was

• (1) God the Father
  (2) Jesus the Son..... and
  (3) Mary the Mother!

:roll:

Cant blame him really....heck its really confuzzling....

So God is the father? Father not in biological sense? In what sense? Father of Jesus m presuming?

Jesus the Son? Son of Mary...yes? Or son of God? In what way, son of God?

Mary the mother? Yes Mary happened to be a mother- the mother of Jesus.

Holy Ghost? Uh huh? Whats that all about then?

Is the Trinity some fundamental part of Xianity? Is it a major belive of all Christians? Were exactly does Trinity stand in Christianity?

 

[Fath]

Is that a quote from the Quran or have you summarised your understanding of it?

One. You acknowledge the fact that Christians join Christ to God.
Muslims dont. Allah is soley to be worshipped. We dont worship Muhammad.

The Trinity is an insult to God himself. It is giving 3 forms to something that should have only one. So whose guilty of adjoining partners with God.

Hate the Christians and Jews? To be honest i dont hate Christians or Jews. It just so happens that those murders who are commiting grave atrocities against my fellow brothers and sisters, are Christians and Jews. When it comes to murder, no-one can out-strip the award from Christians.

You all say that you don't worship Muhammad, but every single last bit of evidence strongly indicates that you do.

1. You have Muhammad's gravesite set up as a largest gravesite shrine on earth.

2. Muslims are to turn towards Mecca- the direction of Muhammad's grave- when they pray.

3. When the dead are buried, they are placed on their sides in the grave, facing the direction of Muhammad's grave in Mecca.

4. When professing the Shahada, all new converts must state, "There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is THE Messenger of Allah." Nobody can be accepted as a Muslim UNLESS Muhammad's name is included in the Shahada with Allah. This is definitely joining Muhammad to Allah, no matter how you slice and dice it.

5. You embellish Muhammad's legacy by stating things such as he was illiterate, and thus the Quran is a miracle because he was illiterate. You also create legends of Muhammad flying to heaven during his lifetime.

6. When the cartoons of Muhammad were released, Muslims went nuts all over the world, and their excuse was "Muhammad is a prophet of Allah. We would get this upset if it were ANY prophet of Allah." Yet, when the movie "The Passion of the Christ" came out, why then didn't Muslims go nuts all over the world?

7. The Quran states specifically that Allah does not make a distinction between ANY of the Messengers, yet Muslims exalt Muhammad over all the prophets?

As far as Christians being murders, that's all ancient history and largely went out with the Crusades. Today, most American soldiers are Christians by birth, but hardly any practice the faith. Thus, it is not a religious body that is in Iraq, but a government body. Muslims automatically view America as a Christian nation, and automatically assume that any military action is Christian motivated.

You don't see Americans cutting off people's heads and shouting "Allah Akbar" do you? You don't see them killing anyone and praising god do you? NO you don't. You only see Muslims doing that, so don't talk to me about who is committing muders in the name of their religion, because it's clearly not Americans.

Period.

Why dont u go to the library and brush up on your ignorance.

Muhammad's grave IS NOT IN MAKKAH, ITS IN MEDINAH....different city... :roll:

I could forgive you for that, which i do, but it was the way u mentioned it in a way as truth to further your argument.

Fundamental believe in Islam that Allah is ONE, has no son, wife, and isnt divide into multiple entites:

"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him. (The Noble Quran, 112:1-4)"

Narrated 'Umar: "I heard the Prophet saying, 'Do not exaggerate in praising me as the Christians praised the son of Mary, for I am only a Slave. So, call me the Slave of Allah and His Apostle.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Prophets, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 654)"

The above Noble Verses and Saying should be sufficient enough to prove that Muhammad peace be upon him is nothing but an apostle from Allah Almighty. He is in no way Allah Almighty Himself!

When looking at the shahada, it says that yes....to state clealry that Muhammad is a Messenger of Allah, it doesnt say he is or is equvialent to, but says he is a messenger of Allah. Its important to make the distinction there, so as not for one to confuse what Christians believe of Jesus to what Muslims think of Muhammad.

Care to elaborate on 5, please.

On the passion of the Christ, it does affect and hurt Muslims to see Isa being mocked etc. as we believe they were all Prophets of Allah. Dont think we would enjoy and humour ourselves in the mocking of Isa.

"Your point No. 7. The Quran states specifically that Allah does not make a distinction between ANY of the Messengers, yet Muslims exalt Muhammad over all the prophets?"

Ever occured to u that Muslim dosent equal Allah. Yes they are all Prophets of Allah. But Muhammad (saw) is the prophet of this current ummah or nation(of which i am of), Jesus didnt come down for me.

Your last point is a bit random, doesnt have anything to do with the discussion at hand.

Medinah, fine.

The thing is you never addressed points 1, 2, or 3.

And as far as the Shahada is concerned, if you are not exalting Muhammad and enjoing hin with Allah, why then not say it as:

"There is no God but Allah, and all the prophets are his messengers?"

The Shahada is man-made, and does not come from God.

Fundamental believe in Islam that Allah is ONE, has no son, wife, and isnt divide into multiple entites:

This belief is a direct attack on Christians beliefs, and it was created to be nothing more than an attack on Christian beliefs.

Here's some of the fundamental beliefs of Muslims:

1. There is no trinity.
2. Jesus was not crucified.
3. Jesus was not the son of God.
4. Jesus was nothing more than a messenger of Allah.
5. The Gospel and Torah are corrupted.

Now take a good hard look at the above list, and think. The Quran teaches Muslims to deny the 5 most important beliefs of the Christian faith.

1. Christians believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
2. Jesus was crucified.
3. Jesus was the Son of God.
4. Jesus was more than a prophet; he was the son of God and the Messiah.
5. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the word of God, and is not corrupted.

Mulsims deny everything that is cherished by Christians. Your fundamental beliefs are nothing but a malicious attack against Christianity, and it's as transparent as a pane of glass.

And if you think that Jesus was only sent to the Children of Israel, then you and all Muslims have no claim on him whatsoever when he returns. If you deny him now, then he will most definitely deny you at the end of days.

 

[Bilal]

Is that a quote from the Quran or have you summarised your understanding of it?

One. You acknowledge the fact that Christians join Christ to God.
Muslims dont. Allah is soley to be worshipped. We dont worship Muhammad.

The Trinity is an insult to God himself. It is giving 3 forms to something that should have only one. So whose guilty of adjoining partners with God.

Hate the Christians and Jews? To be honest i dont hate Christians or Jews. It just so happens that those murders who are commiting grave atrocities against my fellow brothers and sisters, are Christians and Jews. When it comes to murder, no-one can out-strip the award from Christians.

You all say that you don't worship Muhammad, but every single last bit of evidence strongly indicates that you do.

1. You have Muhammad's gravesite set up as a largest gravesite shrine on earth.

2. Muslims are to turn towards Mecca- the direction of Muhammad's grave- when they pray.

3. When the dead are buried, they are placed on their sides in the grave, facing the direction of Muhammad's grave in Mecca.

4. When professing the Shahada, all new converts must state, "There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is THE Messenger of Allah." Nobody can be accepted as a Muslim UNLESS Muhammad's name is included in the Shahada with Allah. This is definitely joining Muhammad to Allah, no matter how you slice and dice it.

5. You embellish Muhammad's legacy by stating things such as he was illiterate, and thus the Quran is a miracle because he was illiterate. You also create legends of Muhammad flying to heaven during his lifetime.

6. When the cartoons of Muhammad were released, Muslims went nuts all over the world, and their excuse was "Muhammad is a prophet of Allah. We would get this upset if it were ANY prophet of Allah." Yet, when the movie "The Passion of the Christ" came out, why then didn't Muslims go nuts all over the world?

7. The Quran states specifically that Allah does not make a distinction between ANY of the Messengers, yet Muslims exalt Muhammad over all the prophets?

As far as Christians being murders, that's all ancient history and largely went out with the Crusades. Today, most American soldiers are Christians by birth, but hardly any practice the faith. Thus, it is not a religious body that is in Iraq, but a government body. Muslims automatically view America as a Christian nation, and automatically assume that any military action is Christian motivated.

You don't see Americans cutting off people's heads and shouting "Allah Akbar" do you? You don't see them killing anyone and praising god do you? NO you don't. You only see Muslims doing that, so don't talk to me about who is committing muders in the name of their religion, because it's clearly not Americans.

Period.

Why dont u go to the library and brush up on your ignorance.

Muhammad's grave IS NOT IN MAKKAH, ITS IN MEDINAH....different city... :roll:

I could forgive you for that, which i do, but it was the way u mentioned it in a way as truth to further your argument.

Fundamental believe in Islam that Allah is ONE, has no son, wife, and isnt divide into multiple entites:

"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him. (The Noble Quran, 112:1-4)"

Narrated 'Umar: "I heard the Prophet saying, 'Do not exaggerate in praising me as the Christians praised the son of Mary, for I am only a Slave. So, call me the Slave of Allah and His Apostle.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Prophets, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 654)"

The above Noble Verses and Saying should be sufficient enough to prove that Muhammad peace be upon him is nothing but an apostle from Allah Almighty. He is in no way Allah Almighty Himself!

When looking at the shahada, it says that yes....to state clealry that Muhammad is a Messenger of Allah, it doesnt say he is or is equvialent to, but says he is a messenger of Allah. Its important to make the distinction there, so as not for one to confuse what Christians believe of Jesus to what Muslims think of Muhammad.

Care to elaborate on 5, please.

On the passion of the Christ, it does affect and hurt Muslims to see Isa being mocked etc. as we believe they were all Prophets of Allah. Dont think we would enjoy and humour ourselves in the mocking of Isa.

"Your point No. 7. The Quran states specifically that Allah does not make a distinction between ANY of the Messengers, yet Muslims exalt Muhammad over all the prophets?"

Ever occured to u that Muslim dosent equal Allah. Yes they are all Prophets of Allah. But Muhammad (saw) is the prophet of this current ummah or nation(of which i am of), Jesus didnt come down for me.

Your last point is a bit random, doesnt have anything to do with the discussion at hand.

Medinah, fine.

The thing is you never addressed points 1, 2, or 3.

And as far as the Shahada is concerned, if you are not exalting Muhammad and enjoing hin with Allah, why then not say it as:

"There is no God but Allah, and all the prophets are his messengers?"

The Shahada is man-made, and does not come from God.

[quote:21110]Fundamental believe in Islam that Allah is ONE, has no son, wife, and isnt divide into multiple entites:

This belief is a direct attack on Christians beliefs, and it was created to be nothing more than an attack on Christian beliefs.

Here's some of the fundamental beliefs of Muslims:

1. There is no trinity.
2. Jesus was not crucified.
3. Jesus was not the son of God.
4. Jesus was nothing more than a messenger of Allah.
5. The Gospel and Torah are corrupted.

Now take a good hard look at the above list, and think. The Quran teaches Muslims to deny the 5 most important beliefs of the Christian faith.

1. Christians believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
2. Jesus was crucified.
3. Jesus was the Son of God.
4. Jesus was more than a prophet; he was the son of God and the Messiah.
5. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the word of God, and is not corrupted.

Mulsims deny everything that is cherished by Christians. Your fundamental beliefs are nothing but a malicious attack against Christianity, and it's as transparent as a pane of glass.

And if you think that Jesus was only sent to the Children of Israel, then you and all Muslims have no claim on him whatsoever when he returns. If you deny him now, then he will most definitely deny you at the end of days.[/quote:21110]

Honestly, i thought i made it clear enough about 2 & 3, Muhammad was buried in Medinah, which is a different cit to Makkah, no mulsim pray towards their, and no-one prays to Muhammad's grave. What dont you see?

No.1 > It is not a Shrine, nobody prays to it. Quote: "St. Joseph's Oratory of Mount Royal is the world's largest shrine dedicated to St. Joseph." But still, its not a shrine anyway.

Why dont we change the shahada? Its not in our nature to go around changing things in our religion, just to make them fit better. :roll:

Attack on Xianity? Dpends which way you look at it...the other way, and its an insult to our believe.

Umm...they're nt our fundamental believes, believes, but not fundamental...i thought a former muslim would know :roll:

I am not tryin to insult Christianity at all...

hav 2 go...will Insh'Allah be back.

 

[Gary]

The Trinity is an insult to God himself. It is giving 3 forms to something that should have only one. So whose guilty of adjoining partners with God.

Poor old Muhammad was very confused. He thought that the Trinity was

• (1) God the Father
  (2) Jesus the Son..... and
  (3) Mary the Mother!

:roll:

Cant blame him really....heck its really confuzzling....

LOL.. yes, thanks. You are busy proving that the Quran could NOT have been from God. Surely after 600 years of Christianity ... God would have known that Christians worshiped God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

So God is the father? Father not in biological sense? In what sense? Father of Jesus m presuming? Jesus the Son? Son of Mary...yes? Or son of God? In what way, son of God? Mary the mother? Yes Mary happened to be a mother- the mother of Jesus. Holy Ghost? Uh huh? Whats that all about then? Is the Trinity some fundamental part of Xianity? Is it a major belive of all Christians? Were exactly does Trinity stand in Christianity?

You seem to be as slow as Muhammad to understand. However, at least you can READ. So read this:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Gilchris ... chap2.html

Enjoy!

 

[DivineNames]

Poor old Muhammad was very confused. He thought that the Trinity was

• (1) God the Father
  (2) Jesus the Son..... and
  (3) Mary the Mother!

:roll:

Cant blame him really....heck its really confuzzling....

LOL.. yes, thanks. You are busy proving that the Quran could NOT have been from God. Surely after 600 years of Christianity ... God would have known that Christians worshiped God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

I know the Bible talks such-

1 Corinthians 8:6 (KJV) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

But if you use the term "God" for the Father in this way when you are listing the person's of the Trinity, then it does rather suggest an equality problem. It suggests that the Father is "more" God than the others.