Yes this is for believers; ie followers of Jesus Christ.
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
Wresting or Reasoning Scripture
- Thread starter netchaplain
- Start date
Yes this is for believers; ie followers of Jesus Christ.
Please use scripture.
Those who are already born again, and have the Holy Spirit can be led by the Spirit, in which they are led to do the will of the Father.
The will of the Father for unbelievers is to believe and be saved.
JLB
Rather it shows one loves God. A genuine and sincere faith.
Its repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus and you will receive the Spirit. While one is not required to give half the wealth to the poor or pay back someone they cheated 4 times the amount cheated it is a genuine sign of a change of heart and spirit of repentance. Likewise those who deliberately continue to sin have not repented. They will not receive the Spirit God gives to those that obey Him. Therefore they have not known Jesus. God knows those that love Him or those that love God are known by God.
Gods faithfulness in His covenant and mercy is to those who love Him and keep His commands. Just as it was with the first covenant God made with Israel.
The inward circumcision by the Spirit on the hearts of the people is how God writes the covenant Jesus introduced by His blood on those He calls His children.
By their fruit you will recognize them.
I would have thought you knew this.
Matt 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
The enemies of God are still in the world and they do not do the will of the Father in heaven but the will of their Father the devil.
God desire is for all to believe and be saved but we know all don't believe.
But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
Sorry but you are just talking in circles because you don’t have a scripture that says we are born again by deeds.
Here is your statement —
believing in Jesus andpledging a good conscience towards God. A change of heart, a spirit of repentance. By mouth and deeds.
So until you can produce a scripture that says we are born again, regenerated by doing deeds, I will move on from discussing this subject with you. Because I don’t want to keep repeating the words of scripture that show how we are saved, while you keep talking in circles.
Again here is what I believe we must do to be saved; to be born again.
Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12
- lest they should believe and be saved.
Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Acts 16:30-31
- Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved,
JLB
Last edited:
His answer was longer. He is the head of the body of Christ and He asked the man to sell all He had and give it to the poor and follow Him. The man walked away downcast. In acts it was repent and be baptized and you will receive the promised Holy Spirit.
What happened to your believe only and be saved?
A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. You know the commandments: ‘You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.’ ”
“All these I have kept since I was a boy,” he said.
When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was very wealthy. Jesus looked at him and said, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.
Faith without deeds is dead. And while its believe and be saved is shown other testimonies such as the one I gave you from the head of the body of Christ states there is more depth then that.
As in only those who do the will of the Father in heaven. I am willing to end the discussion.
Bye.
What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
Jethro Bodine
Member
The problem is the church has separated Paul's justification by faith from James' justification by works, erroneously thinking that James' justification by works is the damnable works gospel that Paul railed against.
There is no such thing as being justified by faith without also being justified by works. But the church is certain you can be saved by faith that is 'alone'. Paul taught 'justification apart from works', which is NOT the same as James' 'faith alone'. But they have been so thoroughly confused with each other that we now have a church full of people who think their dead faith saves them. It's a very disturbing thing that is happening in our churches at this time in history.
Again, you are mixing up what a person who is already born again must do to remain in Christ and receive the salvation of their soul, at the end of their faith, with what we need to do to be born again.
receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:9
Peter is speaking to those who are already saved by faith, encouraging them to remain steadfast in their faith through trials and persecution.
I have addressed this before but I guess you still don’t understand.
James says “show me your faith” to people who already have faith and are saved.
This is the answer that was given to somehow who was looking to become saved —
“Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Acts 16:30-31
again
Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12
again
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9
- believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Please acknowledge that you understand these are referring to people who are hearing the Gospel for the first time.
Do you understand this?
JLB
This isn't the complete answer is it? Believe and be saved. I am not mixing anything.
This is the complete answer=> Those who hold to the testimony of Jesus and obey His commands.
I have asked but not received a answer in regard to born again. Why do you think God gives the gift of the Spirit to those that continue to willfully sin when both in acts and the Lords own testimony stated the Spirit is given to those that obey Him?
Paul taught against a righteousness that is obtained by works of the law such as circumcision. Paul expressed importance in faith expressing itself though love. Which is not far from James or John in regard to loving others which shows your faith as genuine not just by your mouth but also by what you do.
John=>Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person
John=>No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
James=>
If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.
12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
You most certainly are.
You are confusing people who are unsaved, with people who are saved.
This is the answer that was given to somehow who was looking to become saved —
“Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Acts 16:30-31
again
Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12
again
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9
- believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Do you understand these verses refer to how a person who is unsaved, becomes saved by faith; born again, regenerated?
Biblical believing results in salvation, which is why we see verses that also say obey the Gospel, rather than believe the Gospel.
Biblical believing carries the meaning of trust and obey.
Like I said before, what believe means is another discussion.
We are saved, born again by the Spirit, when we believe the Gospel.
JLB
Last edited:
If one who proclaims Christ as Lord holds to the testimony and obey Jesus commands that would show me they belong to Him. If such a one continues to deliberately sin after coming to the knowledge of the truth that would show me despite what they may state they do not know Jesus and are still slaves to sin.
There is also a testimony as in repent and be baptized and you will receive the promised Holy Spirit as well as the Apostles and the Holy Spirit were witnesses to such things whom God gives to those who obey Him.
One cannot fool the witness of the Holy Spirit. God knows those who truly love Him.
Jethro Bodine
Member
I think all three of them are right on.
The church can't see it, though.
The church is sure James' dead faith can save them.
Ernest T. Bass
Member
The text does not say Judas was always a devil always a betrayer for that is what he become.
I don't think Judas was born a devil.
This is what the Lord stated. It was present tense.
Then Jesus replied, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!"
Judas-“Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages. ” He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.
Its clear to me Judas loved money more then he loved God. The love of money is the root of many evils.
And the LORD said to me, "Throw it to the potter"--the handsome price at which they valued me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them to the potter at the house of the LORD.
God chose one devil to fulfill the scriptures.
Ernest T. Bass
Member
Judas was at that present time a devil but not always a devil...he became a devil. He was not born a thief or betrayer but is what he become.
Lk 6:13-16 Judas was a disciple of Christ....."His disciple" 'his' being a possessive pronoun, Judas was a possession of Christ who was given to Christ that Christ held in his hand, Jn 17:2-12. John 17:2 those given to Christ, as Judas (v6) were given eternal life.
Matt 10
-Judas was given miraculous powers vs 1,8
-Judas was commissioned to preach the gospel to the lost vs 6-7
-Judas was a sheep not a wolf v16
-Judas was inspired by the Holy Spirit in what he spoke vs 19-20
-God was Judas' Father (vs 20, 29) not Satan
-Judas became lost because he did not endure (v22) not be cause he was 'always lost never saved'
-receiving Judas was the same as receiving Christ v40
Judas was at one time saved but later fell away becoming lost, becoming a devil, thief, betrayer.
Judas was a devil. I don't know the timeline during all those events when Jesus stated he was a devil. The scripture did not state Judas as you posted. It was a general statement in regard to the 12. Judas was a Apostle as he was chosen. He held that office until he abandoned the office by denying Jesus by his betrayal.
Even to those that had driven out demons in Jesus name Jesus stated never knew them because they did not do His Fathers will in heaven. Judas is certainly is someone who participated in the Holy Spirit and by what He did turned his back on Jesus. That was allowed to fulfilled scripture as Jesus stated the one "doomed" to destruction.
All God had to do was pick someone who loved money so much they would betray even the Son of God for payment. That one was doomed to destruction. Its only one person to fulfill Gods purpose. The cross was in Gods plans of redemption. So it was a unique event. Not something to build theology upon. Jesus kept the others safe. Likewise anyone born of God is chosen.
Ernest T. Bass
Member
No verse says Judas was always a devil.
The verses I cited prove Judas was once a child of God but later fell away.
The verses you showed stated Judas was a Apostle. The verses I showed showed the condition of his heart. I agree Judas was a Apostle and was chosen by Jesus.
The fault was in Judas's heart from the beginning. God knew that. Jesus did call Judas a devil and the Apostles noted he was a thief. That was during the ministry and before the betrayal.
Ernest T. Bass
Member
The verses in Matthew 10 say more than Judas was just an Apostle.
-Judas was given miraculous powers vs 1,8
-Judas was commissioned to preach the gospel to the lost vs 6-7
-Judas was a sheep not a wolf v16
-Judas was inspired by the Holy Spirit in what he spoke vs 19-20
-God was Judas' Father (vs 20, 29) not Satan
-Judas became lost because he did not endure (v22) not be cause he was 'always lost never saved'
-receiving Judas was the same as receiving Christ v40
All of the above would not be true of a person never saved, but always lost, unforgiven reprobate.
Jn 17:2 "As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him."
Judas was one given to Christ (Jn 17:6,9). Hence Judas was one given eternal life but later lost it.
No verse says Judas was always lost, never saved but always a devil. People are assuming that idea into the Bible.