Yechezkel - Ezekiel - Chapter 28

[stovebolts]

I have heard it said that this describes the fall of Satan... I tend to disagree.

Thoughts?

 

[whirlwind]

I have heard it said that this describes the fall of Satan... I tend to disagree.

Thoughts?

I believe it does describe his fall in the first age as well as his present reign and ultimate trip to the pit. Why do you disagree?

 

[stovebolts]

Because it's addressed to "the prince of Tyre".

Tyre played a crucial role building the Temple with Solomon.

 

[whirlwind]

Because it's addressed to "the prince of Tyre".

Tyre played a crucial role building the Temple with Solomon.

True...but does that make it good?

• Matthew 11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin ! woe unto thee, Bethsaida ! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

 

[NIGHTMARE]

I have heard it said that this describes the fall of Satan... I tend to disagree.

Thoughts?

Ezekiel 28: 3 "Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:"

This aint refering to no man......Many things can be hide from a man whether he is a king or not,,,,and the only man I know wiser then Daniel is Solomon (Christ excluded of course)

But satan,,,,satan is wiser then Daniel and Solomon and you cant hide nothing from him except your inner thoughts but can see you and here you......

Satan is the only pesron that qualifies for this.......

 

[follower of Christ]

I have heard it said that this describes the fall of Satan... I tend to disagree.

Thoughts?

Ezekiel 28: 3 "Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:"

This aint refering to no man......Many things can be hide from a man whether he is a king or not,,,,and the only man I know wiser then Daniel is Solomon (Christ excluded of course)

But satan,,,,satan is wiser then Daniel and Solomon and you cant hide nothing from him except your inner thoughts but can see you and here you......

Satan is the only pesron that qualifies for this.......

Well, waddayano...we dont disagree on every single detail ;)

 

[jasoncran]

i believe that verse describes the fall of satan, and tyre was a city along sidon that laughed at the captivity of jerusalem and God judged them for that, the prince of it was a tool of the devil also. I will looksie at versie a little more to see and verify.

jason

 

[stovebolts]

Because it's addressed to "the prince of Tyre".

Tyre played a crucial role building the Temple with Solomon.

True...but does that make it good?

• Matthew 11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin ! woe unto thee, Bethsaida ! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

What are the mighty works of Tyre? Did not Tyre supply cedars for YHVH's Temple in the reign of Solomon (1 Kings 7-9)? Did not Tyre supply gold and craftsman to build Isreal's Temple? Was not the Temple built on Mt. Moriah (2 Chronicles 3:1) where Abraham offered his only beloved son Isaac (Genesis 22:2)? You know, the Jews to this day still believe that it was on top of Mt. Moriah where Abraham offered his only beloved son that the first man Adam was formed from the dust of the ground... Jerusalem oh Jerusalem.. No wonder it is revered as such a holy place.

 

[stovebolts]

I have heard it said that this describes the fall of Satan... I tend to disagree.

Thoughts?

Ezekiel 28: 3 "Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:"

This aint refering to no man......Many things can be hide from a man whether he is a king or not,,,,and the only man I know wiser then Daniel is Solomon (Christ excluded of course)

But satan,,,,satan is wiser then Daniel and Solomon and you cant hide nothing from him except your inner thoughts but can see you and here you......

Satan is the only pesron that qualifies for this.......

Exekiel 28:3 is mocking and taunting Tyre as gods.... It's a play off Daniel 4:6. Tyre helped build the Holy Temple of YHVH... and now, within the context of exile, what role is Tyre playing?

I await your answer.

Grace and peace.

 

[whirlwind]

Because it's addressed to "the prince of Tyre".

Tyre played a crucial role building the Temple with Solomon.

True...but does that make it good?

• Matthew 11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin ! woe unto thee, Bethsaida ! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

What are the mighty works of Tyre? Did not Tyre supply cedars for YHVH's Temple in the reign of Solomon (1 Kings 7-9)? Did not Tyre supply gold and craftsman to build Isreal's Temple? Was not the Temple built on Mt. Moriah (2 Chronicles 3:1) where Abraham offered his only beloved son Isaac (Genesis 22:2)? You know, the Jews to this day still believe that it was on top of Mt. Moriah where Abraham offered his only beloved son that the first man Adam was formed from the dust of the ground... Jerusalem oh Jerusalem.. No wonder it is revered as such a holy place.

In God's great plan I see the place Abraham offered his son as the same place our Father gave His Son. But, I don't understand what you mean by, "that the first man Adam was formed from the dust of the ground." Do you see that as being on Mt. Moriah or Jerusalem?

I love the fact that you use YHVH. So many write YHWH or Yahweh.

The works of Tyre are mighty but that doesn't make them good. Tyre/Tyrus is associated with Satan and Satan is involved in the building of temples, synagogues, mosques and churches. His men were in control of the temple during the time of Christ.

In Ezekiel, as you have pointed out, we see the "prince of Tyrus," as well as the "king of Tyrus." Same entity at different stages.

• Ezekiel 28:12-13 "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, 'Thus saith the Lord GOD; 'Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

When he was the "king" he was loved by the Father. Notice that he was in the garden of God and that he was "created," not born! This speaks of the first age....before his rebellion and fall. When we first see him in the garden in Genesis he is already in his fallen state. In that first age, when he was king he was ruler over God's children, represented by the precious stones. Those same precious stones represent the twelve tribes on the breastplate worn by the priests...the "Umim and the Thummim, however, in this age there are an additional three.

In Ezekiel, concerning the first age, we see....sardius, topaz, diamond, beryl, onyx, jasper, sapphire, emerald, carbuncle. In [Exodus 28-17-20], in this present age, we have sardius, topaz, carbuncle, emerald, sapphire, diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper with the addition of ligure, agate, amethyst.

• 28:14-15 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so; thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

The iniquity found in him caused the katalbo, the overthrow, the destruction of the first earth age. Now, in this present age he has been demoted to prince.....

• 28:2 "Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, 'Thus saith the Lord GOD; 'Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, 'I am a GOD, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas;' yet thou art a man, and not GOD, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
  
  [list:l82dgn40]11 Thessalonians 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the Temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

[/list:u:l82dgn40]

 

[Sinthesis]

I have heard it said that this describes the fall of Satan... I tend to disagree.

Thoughts?

You are correct.
The only confusion arises because of the literary device of personifying an entire culture. Tyre's sin was pride; God was going to reward that pride with destruction. :fullauto

 

[Sinthesis]

Because it's addressed to "the prince of Tyre".

Tyre played a crucial role building the Temple with Solomon.

True...but does that make it good?

• Matthew 11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin ! woe unto thee, Bethsaida ! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

Matthew 11:21 is just another word-search-non-sequitur. :naughty

 

[whirlwind]

Because it's addressed to "the prince of Tyre".

Tyre played a crucial role building the Temple with Solomon.

True...but does that make it good?

• Matthew 11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin ! woe unto thee, Bethsaida ! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

Matthew 11:21 is just another word-search-non-sequitur. :naughty

So...it means nothing? It is just added to the Bible for no reason? It seems to me that the verse says a great deal.

 

[Heneni]

Because it's addressed to "the prince of Tyre".

Tyre played a crucial role building the Temple with Solomon.

Hi there! You are right Tyre did play a role in rebuilding a temple. That would not be the first temple of solomon but a rebuilding of a temple. By that time tyre was under persian control and the prophecy against the prince and king of tyre in Ezekiel about their empire coming to ruin was fullfilled by then.

 

[Sinthesis]

True...but does that make it good?

• Matthew 11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin ! woe unto thee, Bethsaida ! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

Matthew 11:21 is just another word-search-non-sequitur. :naughty

So...it means nothing? It is just added to the Bible for no reason? It seems to me that the verse says a great deal.

Don't be so quick to retreat into hyperbolic nonsense.
The simple fact is that Matthew 11:21 has NOTHING to do with Ezekiel 28 beyond the sharing of the words Tyrus and Zidon. The messages are different.

 

[Heneni]

So...it means nothing? It is just added to the Bible for no reason? It seems to me that the verse says a great deal.

Hi there! I think that we cannot simply overlook the fact that there is this sentence in the text ''you were in the garden of eden''

The only people that we know were in the garden of eden was satan, adam and eve. I do think that the text shows his gradual fall from glory. I probably dont interpret it the way you do.

I see him in heaven walking among the fiery stones, then i see him falling and in the garden of eden (paradise) then i see him falling further, to the earth, and then i see him in the pit in the NT. He keeps on going from bad to worse.

I think that the prince and the king were simply father and son, both corrupted. Maybe that aludes to the dragon and the beast in revelation?

The dragon is the father, and the beast is his son.

Revelation 13:2
. 2The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.

The dragon (father) gives the beast (son) his authority. Looks like is trying to copy the son (jesus) and father relationhip.

God bless
Heneni

 

[whirlwind]

Don't be so quick to retreat into hyperbolic nonsense.
The simple fact is that Matthew 11:21 has NOTHING to do with Ezekiel 28 beyond the sharing of the words Tyrus and Zidon. The messages are different.

Don't be so quick to dismiss it as exaggeration. Of course it has everything to do with the subject of TYRE/TYRUS. Jesus is clearly telling us about Tyrus and...it isn't good. Do you think Jesus finds fault with it is because it is located on an ugly stretch of beach? This thread is about Tyre being associated with Satan and his fall.

• Matthew 11:22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. (24) But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

He placed Tyre in the same lesson with Sodom. What does that tell you? :yes

Steve wrote.....

StoveBolts wrote:
I have heard it said that this describes the fall of Satan... I tend to disagree.

Thoughts?

His reason for it not being associated with the fall of Satan is....

Because it's addressed to "the prince of Tyre".

Tyre played a crucial role building the Temple with Solomon

From the above verses you see the true nature of Tyre. They have everything to do with the subject! :amen

 

[Sinthesis]

Don't be so quick to retreat into hyperbolic nonsense.
The simple fact is that Matthew 11:21 has NOTHING to do with Ezekiel 28 beyond the sharing of the words Tyrus and Zidon. The messages are different.

Don't be so quick to dismiss it as exaggeration. Of course it has everything to do with the subject of TYRE/TYRUS. Jesus is clearly telling us about Tyrus and...it isn't good. Do you think Jesus finds fault with it is because it is located on an ugly stretch of beach? This thread is about Tyre being associated with Satan and his fall.

• Matthew 11:22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. (24) But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

He placed Tyre in the same lesson with Sodom. What does that tell you? :yes

Steve wrote.....

StoveBolts wrote:
I have heard it said that this describes the fall of Satan... I tend to disagree.

Thoughts?

His reason for it not being associated with the fall of Satan is....

[quote:2wof1t31]Because it's addressed to "the prince of Tyre".

Tyre played a crucial role building the Temple with Solomon

From the above verses you see the true nature of Tyre. They have everything to do with the subject! :amen[/quote:2wof1t31]
Read Ezekiel 27 and tell me if the author was ever to lament for Satan.

Ezekiel 28 follows where the blame for Tyre's destruction is placed on the king and prince of Tyre who let their success in commerce go to their heads. Because they felt themselves masters of their own fate God chose to put them in their place. The Garden of Eden reference conveys the fact that Tyre was not always on God's bad side, for it was worthy to help build the first temple.

In Matthew 11:21 Jesus is condemning Chorazin and Bethsaida where He had preached and performed miracles, yet they had rejected Him. For this, their sin was greater than that of Tyre and Sidon, as would be their punishment. Capernaum's sin and punishment would overshadow that of Sodom.

If you believe Ezekiel 28 is actually about Satan, then you would not support your argument with Matthew 11 unless you think Satan would have repented in sackcloth and ashes had only Jesus preached to him.

Ezekiel 28 tells Tyre that they have fallen from God's favor so they are going down. This may have parallels to Satan's fall, but it is about, and directed to, Tyre, unless maybe you think Satan has a sidekick named Sidon. :D

 

[whirlwind]

Don't be so quick to retreat into hyperbolic nonsense.
The simple fact is that Matthew 11:21 has NOTHING to do with Ezekiel 28 beyond the sharing of the words Tyrus and Zidon. The messages are different.

Don't be so quick to dismiss it as exaggeration. Of course it has everything to do with the subject of TYRE/TYRUS. Jesus is clearly telling us about Tyrus and...it isn't good. Do you think Jesus finds fault with it is because it is located on an ugly stretch of beach? This thread is about Tyre being associated with Satan and his fall.

• Matthew 11:22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. (24) But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

He placed Tyre in the same lesson with Sodom. What does that tell you? :yes

Steve wrote.....

StoveBolts wrote:
I have heard it said that this describes the fall of Satan... I tend to disagree.

Thoughts?

His reason for it not being associated with the fall of Satan is....

[quote:qaus4ltq]Because it's addressed to "the prince of Tyre".

Tyre played a crucial role building the Temple with Solomon

From the above verses you see the true nature of Tyre. They have everything to do with the subject! :amen

Read Ezekiel 27 and tell me if the author was ever to lament for Satan. [/quote:qaus4ltq]

He laments for Tyrus...not the prince or king of Tyrus.

Ezekiel 28 follows where the blame for Tyre's destruction is placed on the king and prince of Tyre who let their success in commerce go to their heads. Because they felt themselves masters of their own fate God chose to put them in their place. The Garden of Eden reference conveys the fact that Tyre was not always on God's bad side, for it was worthy to help build the first temple.

When Satan was the "king of," he was in good standing. That was in the first age before his rebellion and he was loved by God.

In Matthew 11:21 Jesus is condemning Chorazin and Bethsaida where He had preached and performed miracles, yet they had rejected Him. For this, their sin was greater than that of Tyre and Sidon, as would be their punishment. Capernaum's sin and punishment would overshadow that of Sodom.

If you believe Ezekiel 28 is actually about Satan, then you would not support your argument with Matthew 11 unless you think Satan would have repented in sackcloth and ashes had only Jesus preached to him.

Satan isn't Tyre....he is the prince of and was the king of.

Ezekiel 28 tells Tyre that they have fallen from God's favor so they are going down. This may have parallels to Satan's fall, but it is about, and directed to, Tyre, unless maybe you think Satan has a sidekick named Sidon. :D

Tell me Sintheis...what do you believe Tyre represents? If I am correct in seeing Satan as the prince of Tyrus then...what is Tyrus itself? I see it as a type for the first beast, the one world system...which gets it's power from Satan.

 

[Sinthesis]

He laments for Tyrus...not the prince or king of Tyrus.

Seriously, do you just shoot from the hip?

Eze 28:12 - Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

When Satan was the "king of," he was in good standing. That was in the first age before his rebellion and he was loved by God.

Was that when he was named 'Hiram'? More with your fabled first age.

Satan isn't Tyre....he is the prince of and was the king of.

No...The prince of Tyre is only a man.

Eze 28:2 - Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart [is] lifted up, and thou hast said, I [am] a God, I sit [in] the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou [art] a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

Tell me Sintheis...what do you believe Tyre represents? If I am correct in seeing Satan as the prince of Tyrus then...what is Tyrus itself? I see it as a type for the first beast, the one world system...which gets it's power from Satan.

Tyre represents...Tyre!!! A successful culture who's worldview had become satanic and deserved God's wrath. One of many throughout biblical history.