[ Young Earth ] Young Earth?

[DiscipleDave]

If you asked me I would just say I don't know. I think I lean more towards the old earth side because I've heard somewhere that there are stars that are millions of years old so I feel like earth would be somewhat close behind that. What do you guys think?

Do you believe Scriptures? yes or no?

Scriptures plainly teach that Jesus turned water into GREAT tasting wine, in an instant.
Scriptures plainly teach that Jesus materialized a few fishes into thousands.
Let us all travel back in time and we are sitting on the ground listening to Jesus, shall we? As we are sitting there, all of us hungry, all of a sudden we see Jesus take a few fishes and suddening there are thousands of fishes. Now one of the Disciples walks up to you and hands you a full sized fish to eat. Now we are the scientist type of person, tell me, as you look at this fish and examine it, what age do you determine this fish to actually be, based on its teeth, size, weight, etc..? Wait this full grown fish is but mere seconds old, you seen Jesus create fish out of thin air. It appears to be years old, but in reality it is mere seconds old.

Let us go back in time and examine that GREAT wine. We examine it and determine that this wine is 50 years old. But wait, we just saw Jesus make it a second ago from water.

People wake up. Any kind of God would be able to create something from thin air. Stop thinking like a human and start thinking like children of God. God who can create water into wine. turn a few fish into thousands of fish, and a few loaves of bread into thousands of loaves of bread, and can walk on water, and raise people from the dead, can easily create a planet in 6 days.

Tell me if God appeared to you right now in your room and asked Him to make you a rock. Could He make a rock appear out of thin air? Really? Do you know how long it takes to make a rock. The time and pressure to turn tiny particles into a solid rock takes many years to make. So can God the creator of the universe create a rock, yes or no? i do not understand why it is so hard for this generation to understand that He is GOD. If God decided to walk on a barren planet and say "Trees" They would immediately pop out of the ground as full grown trees. He is GOD. Why is it so hard for this generation to believe that God, the creator of the universe, couldn't create a planet in 6 days?

Oh and about your comment about the stars. The Stars are a part of Heaven. The Universe was not created when the Earth was created. The Universe, Heaven, the stars all existed a billion of trillions of years before the Earth was even thought of. This generation is sadly mistaken taking thought that the Earth is the center of the universe. The Milky way galaxy is but a speck of sand in the whole ocean. How can i try to explain this? Its like the time Earth has existed (thousands of years) is Heaven, and then just a second ago Earth was created. My point is, Heaven has been in existence, well, forever. Earth was created a week ago (Heaven time)

Carbon 14 dating is only accurate if the same atmosphere we have today is the same atmosphere we have always had. It wasn't. prior to the flood, this atmosphere was different, therefore carbon dating would not be accurate reading things that died in that atmosphere compared to dying in this atmosphere. Click HERE to see the pictures representing why the atmosphere was different.

 

[Who Me]

Do you believe Scriptures? yes or no?

When people believe what atheists teach more than what the bible teaches, they won't be changed or challenged by appeals to the authority of scripture as they have already rejected it.

 

[DiscipleDave]

When people believe what atheists teach more than what the bible teaches, they won't be changed or challenged by appeals to the authority of scripture as they have already rejected it.

Then let the dead bury their own dead. Atheists are just that, let them be. If they will not hearken to sound doctrine they will not hearken to our voices either no matter how hard we try to convince them otherwise. Let the be. What fellowship hath light with darkness? NONE. Let them be. Anyone, no matter who they are, that rejects verses in the Scriptures, reject Jesus Christ, no matter what they claim with their mouths.

 

[WIP]

Then let the dead bury their own dead. Atheists are just that, let them be. If they will not hearken to sound doctrine they will not hearken to our voices either no matter how hard we try to convince them otherwise. Let the be. What fellowship hath light with darkness? NONE. Let them be. Anyone, no matter who they are, that rejects verses in the Scriptures, reject Jesus Christ, no matter what they claim with their mouths.

We want to convince them but the reality is, that is not our task. When Jesus sent out His disciples He said, "Whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet." Matthew 10:15 NKJV

 

[Who Me]

If they will not hearken to sound doctrine they will not hearken to our voices

Discernment is needed as well as a measure of compassion.
One does not know whether what one says will change their mind.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Discernment is needed as well as a measure of compassion.
One does not know whether what one says will change their mind.

This is most certainly True. i am not saying that a person should not defend the Hope that they have in them, nor they should not defend the Faith. Only saying that talking Bible to a people that do not even believe in God, is moot. Sure we are to love them with all our being, and not condemn them, or put them down, or belittle them. But to sit and have dinner with them. or invite them over for a BBQ is something we should not do. For Scriptures plainly teach we are to avoid them.

 

[WIP]

This is most certainly True. i am not saying that a person should not defend the Hope that they have in them, nor they should not defend the Faith. Only saying that talking Bible to a people that do not even believe in God, is moot. Sure we are to love them with all our being, and not condemn them, or put them down, or belittle them. But to sit and have dinner with them. or invite them over for a BBQ is something we should not do. For Scriptures plainly teach we are to avoid them.

I'm not sure I would agree that we are instructed to avoid non-believers for we are instructed to share the gospel with the world. We just need to realize that we can't do much more than that. We share the gospel by the lifestyle we live, the values we hold, and the love we have for our Lord. We are called to witness, which means to tell the truth about Jesus but we are not called to spend a lot of time acting like attorneys to argue and convince others of the truth. The Holy Spirit will do the convicting and convincing. We plant the seeds and God gives the increase.

This is what I believe Jesus meant when He told His disciples that when they are not received they were to shake the dust off their feet. In other words, share the gospel then let the seeds grow.

 

[OzSpen]

Oh and about your comment about the stars. The Stars are a part of Heaven. The Universe was not created when the Earth was created. The Universe, Heaven, the stars all existed a billion of trillions of years before the Earth was even thought of.

Dave,

From where in the Bible did you obtain that information?

Is that the kind of info you teach people you disciple?

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

But to sit and have dinner with them [unblievers]. or invite them over for a BBQ is something we should not do. For Scriptures plainly teach we are to avoid them.

Dave,

You stated Scriptures plainly teach we should not invite unbelievers for BBQ, etc.

But you provided not a single Scripture to demonstrate your point. I find that to be not only negligent but also to be contrary to Scripture.

What you believe contradicts what Jesus did:

13 Jesus went to the lake again, and many people followed him there. So Jesus taught them. 14 He was walking beside the lake, and he saw a man named Levi, son of Alphaeus. Levi was sitting at his place for collecting taxes. Jesus said to him, “Follow me.” Then Levi stood up and followed Jesus.​

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15 Later that day, Jesus and his followers ate at Levi’s house. There were also many tax collectors and others with bad reputations eating with them. (There were many of these people who followed Jesus.) 16 When some teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw Jesus eating with such bad people, they asked his followers, “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”​

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17 When Jesus heard this, he said to them, “It is the sick people who need a doctor, not those who are healthy. I did not come to invite good people. I came to invite sinners" (Mark 2:13-17 ERV).​

How about 1 more verse? This time from the Apostle Paul:

'Someone who is not a believer might invite you to eat with them. If you want to go, then eat anything that is put before you. Don’t ask questions to see if it is something you think is wrong to eat' (1 Cor 10:27 ERV).

The view promoted by you is contrary to Scripture.

Oz

 

[tdidymas]

Dave,

You stated Scriptures plainly teach we should not invite unbelievers for BBQ, etc.

But you provided not a single Scripture to demonstrate your point. I find that to be not only negligent but also to be contrary to Scripture.

What you believe contradicts what Jesus did:

13 Jesus went to the lake again, and many people followed him there. So Jesus taught them. 14 He was walking beside the lake, and he saw a man named Levi, son of Alphaeus. Levi was sitting at his place for collecting taxes. Jesus said to him, “Follow me.” Then Levi stood up and followed Jesus.​

​

15 Later that day, Jesus and his followers ate at Levi’s house. There were also many tax collectors and others with bad reputations eating with them. (There were many of these people who followed Jesus.) 16 When some teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw Jesus eating with such bad people, they asked his followers, “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”​

​

17 When Jesus heard this, he said to them, “It is the sick people who need a doctor, not those who are healthy. I did not come to invite good people. I came to invite sinners" (Mark 2:13-17 ERV).​

How about 1 more verse? This time from the Apostle Paul:

'Someone who is not a believer might invite you to eat with them. If you want to go, then eat anything that is put before you. Don’t ask questions to see if it is something you think is wrong to eat' (1 Cor 10:27 ERV).

The view promoted by you is contrary to Scripture.

Oz

Dave might be thinking of this verse:
1 Cor. 5:9-11 "I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one."

But as you said, Paul makes a distinction between unbelievers who honestly say they are not Christians and those who claim to be Christian yet practice immorality.

I get the idea it is for the purpose of evangelism. If we shun unbelievers, they don't get to see how we live. Jesus said "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven."

I'm in agreement with you. I just thought you might be interested in this verse, as it appears to be even a stronger support for what you said.
TD

 

[DiscipleDave]

I'm not sure I would agree that we are instructed to avoid non-believers ... ...

2Ti_2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

Rom_16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

2Co_6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

That fellowship is what i am discussing. Sure try to preach the Gospel to whomever will receive it, but fellowship with them, that avoid.

I'm not sure I would agree that we are instructed to avoid non-believers for we are instructed to share the gospel with the world.

Sharing the gospel to those who will receive it, most certainly, but trying to share the gospel with those who don't even believe it, is unprofitable and vain.

We just need to realize that we can't do much more than that. We share the gospel by the lifestyle we live, the values we hold, and the love we have for our Lord.

And we are still instructed to not even eat with them, are we not?

1Co_5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

We are instructed to keep no company with them, and these above are called Brothers. If we are not to even keep company with Brothers, how much more we should not keep company with the ungodly (Atheists)?

We are called to witness, which means to tell the truth about Jesus but we are not called to spend a lot of time acting like attorneys to argue and convince others of the truth. The Holy Spirit will do the convicting and convincing. We plant the seeds and God gives the increase.

True, but you can only plant seeds in a ground that is readily acceptable. Atheists are NOT.

This is what I believe Jesus meant when He told His disciples that when they are not received they were to shake the dust off their feet. In other words, share the gospel then let the seeds grow.

True, we are to preach in season and out of season, but only to those who will hear it. NOT to those who will not hear it or believe it.

An Atheist will remain an atheist no matter how much preaching they hear, no matter how much witnessing they hear from us. They will not believe. God will draw them to Himself. ONLY when God does that, will they come to us seeking knowledge concerning the things of God. So Avoid Atheists, until they come to you.

i am not saying treat them like they got a viral disease. i have had many conversations with Atheists, but only when they ask me a question, i fail not to answer them the best i am able to do. If they want to converse with me, it will be about the HOPE that is in me or nothing at all. (exception could be if one is your co-worker, and you have no choices about conversing, then it will only be job related)

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said:


Oh and about your comment about the stars. The Stars are a part of Heaven. The Universe was not created when the Earth was created. The Universe, Heaven, the stars all existed a billion of trillions of years before the Earth was even thought of.

Dave,

From where in the Bible did you obtain that information?

Is that the kind of info you teach people you disciple?

Oz

God reveals to whom God reveals.

There is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets,. .. . . . (Dan 2:28)
God reveals secrets to His Prophets.. .. .(Amos 3:7)

If i then answer the question you ask me, am i arrogant and self righteous? Call me what you will, but i answered your question with the Truth.

 

[stovebolts]

DiscipleDave ,
I can respect where you are at. Nobody is telling you to eat with an Athiest.

Personally, I went out to lunch the other day with an Athiest. Had a great time and we have much in common.

Had dinner with another Athiest I've known, and argued with the past 19 years. He went from being against Christians to now, as he puts it, "I'm a Christian sympathiser"

He actually defends Christians when others are slamming us. I've worked hard to build that relationship with him, and a few seeds have taken. But no doubt others have been planting seeds as well.

Will he ever accept Christ? I don't honestly know, nor do I take credit because that's not my Job. God makes it grow.

If you dispise Athiests, it's probably best for you to stay far, far away from them. Let us who are called into that ministry do what God has brought into our hearts to do.

As a brother in Christ, I ask that you pray for us.

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave ,
I can respect where you are at. Nobody is telling you to eat with an Athiest.

Agreed, nobody has said for me not to eat with an Atheist. The only thing i am saying is what Scriptures says also. We should not have fellowship with them unless they will hear us and hear the HOPE that is in us.

Personally, I went out to lunch the other day with an Athiest. Had a great time and we have much in common.

And this non=god believer was willing to hear you teach the Gospel? or was the Gospel not even brought up, as to not offend him/her?

Had dinner with another Athiest I've known, and argued with the past 19 years. He went from being against Christians to now, as he puts it, "I'm a Christian sympathiser"

So this anti-god person was willing to hear you. This is what Jesus would want as well. Anyone who is willing to hear you concerning the HOPE that is in us, even if they are devil worshipper, we should do it. But anyone does not desire to hear the Gospel, should be avoided. (shake off the dust from you shoes and move on, NOT invite him again to family dinner)

He actually defends Christians when others are slamming us. I've worked hard to build that relationship with him, and a few seeds have taken. But no doubt others have been planting seeds as well.

i never said this was evil or wrong. Anyone who is willing to hear us for the HOPE that we have in us, is accepted to receive seed from us. But anyone who is not willing to hear that HOPE, but would rather for us just to come over and have a BBQ should be avoided.

Will he ever accept Christ? I don't honestly know, nor do I take credit because that's not my Job. God makes it grow.

The mere fact that he use to be against Christians but now is not, is HOPE for him. Keep it up, keep planting seeds.

If you dispise Athiests, it's probably best for you to stay far, far away from them.

No True Christian should despise any person at all, whether they are Atheist, devil worshiper or a child molester. We should love them all and without fail. But we, who are TRUE Christians should obey the Word of God, and not keep company with unbelievers, nor to keep company with even brothers or sisters who are living in continual sinning. Even as Scriptures teach. Teach anyone who is willing to hear about God's LOVE and His Plan for us, but avoid anyone and everyone who will NOT HEAR you concerning those things. What i see and am against is not Atheists, but those who have fellowship with them, with no intentions of sharing the Good news with them, heck they don't even bring that stuff up around them, because it might offend the anti-god believers.

Does this forum promote Atheists to join, when they do not believe one point in this forums Statement of Faith? Or does this forum avoid such people? We in a like manner should surround ourselves with Christian Brothers and Sisters, not Atheists, non believers, devil worshipers and the such.

Let us who are called into that ministry do what God has brought into our hearts to do.

We should all do what God put in our hearts to do, Amen on that.

As a brother in Christ, I ask that you pray for us.

Will do, as i hope i am prayed for as well.

 

[stovebolts]

Agreed, nobody has said for me not to eat with an Atheist. The only thing i am saying is what Scriptures says also. We should not have fellowship with them unless they will hear us and hear the HOPE that is in us.



And this non=god believer was willing to hear you teach the Gospel? or was the Gospel not even brought up, as to not offend him/her?



So this anti-god person was willing to hear you. This is what Jesus would want as well. Anyone who is willing to hear you concerning the HOPE that is in us, even if they are devil worshipper, we should do it. But anyone does not desire to hear the Gospel, should be avoided. (shake off the dust from you shoes and move on, NOT invite him again to family dinner)



i never said this was evil or wrong. Anyone who is willing to hear us for the HOPE that we have in us, is accepted to receive seed from us. But anyone who is not willing to hear that HOPE, but would rather for us just to come over and have a BBQ should be avoided.



The mere fact that he use to be against Christians but now is not, is HOPE for him. Keep it up, keep planting seeds.



No True Christian should despise any person at all, whether they are Atheist, devil worshiper or a child molester. We should love them all and without fail. But we, who are TRUE Christians should obey the Word of God, and not keep company with unbelievers, nor to keep company with even brothers or sisters who are living in continual sinning. Even as Scriptures teach. Teach anyone who is willing to hear about God's LOVE and His Plan for us, but avoid anyone and everyone who will NOT HEAR you concerning those things. What i see and am against is not Atheists, but those who have fellowship with them, with no intentions of sharing the Good news with them, heck they don't even bring that stuff up around them, because it might offend the anti-god believers.

Does this forum promote Atheists to join, when they do not believe one point in this forums Statement of Faith? Or does this forum avoid such people? We in a like manner should surround ourselves with Christian Brothers and Sisters, not Atheists, non believers, devil worshipers and the such.



We should all do what God put in our hearts to do, Amen on that.



Will do, as i hope i am prayed for as well.

I think you mean well, I really do. But part of me feels like you are putting me on trial and finding me guilty of things in your concience, not mine.

I'm tired and I'm just getting over the flu, I'm not going to enguage in long drawn out posts with you.

What I will say is this. Please do not make me or others feel like we are on trial. We are grown adults grounded in God's word. Trust that God is using us and we are gentle as doves, yet wise as serpents.

Thanks for you consideration .

 

[WIP]

That fellowship is what i am discussing. Sure try to preach the Gospel to whomever will receive it, but fellowship with them, that avoid.

Did Jesus avoid the unbelievers? He ate and drank with tax collectors and sinners.

Sharing the gospel to those who will receive it, most certainly, but trying to share the gospel with those who don't even believe it, is unprofitable and vain.

So what do we do? Do we walk on the other side of the street to avoid contact with unbelievers?

True, but you can only plant seeds in a ground that is readily acceptable. Atheists are NOT.

I was not readily acceptable when my neighbor stopped by to introduce himself and thus began my journey back. Had he not done that, I don't know if I would have been readily available to this day.

True, we are to preach in season and out of season, but only to those who will hear it. NOT to those who will not hear it or believe it.

So you're saying we are called to share the gospel with believers only? What did Jesus do?

By your online name you call yourself a disciple. What did Jesus instruct of His disciples? We honestly are not the ones that can judge who is or who is not ready to receive the word of God for we do not know another person's heart. We are to love one another. What greater love is there than to share the love of Christ with a nonbeliever?

 

[OzSpen]

God reveals to whom God reveals.

Dave,

So is God's personal revelation to you superior to the words of Jesus and other teaching in the Scripture?

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Agreed, nobody has said for me not to eat with an Atheist. The only thing i am saying is what Scriptures says also. We should not have fellowship with them unless they will hear us and hear the HOPE that is in us.

Dave,

What do the NT Scriptures state that?

Oz

 

[Nathan12]

...I've heard somewhere that there are stars that are millions of years old...

It is unfortunate that light-years are used to measure astronomical distances, but they are not really a measure of time, but a measure of distance.

"In our solar system, we tend to describe distances in terms of the Astronomical Unit (AU). The AU is defined as the average distance between the Earth and the Sun. It is approximately 150 million km (93 million miles). Mercury can be said to be about 1/3 of an AU from the Sun and Pluto averages about 40 AU from the Sun. The AU, however, is not big enough of a unit when we start talking about distances to objects outside our solar system."

What is a light-year and how is it used??

 

[WIP]

It is unfortunate that light-years are used to measure astronomical distances, but they are not really a measure of time, but a measure of distance.

Why do you think it is unfortunate? What would be a better way to define such a vast distance?

1 LY = 5,879,000,000,000 miles or 9,461,333,376,000 km.

AU isn't any simpler because it too represents some number of miles as you mentioned in your post. It's just that the distances are so great that it is nearly impossible for us to wrap our minds around them.