An old question- Was Jesus God?

[JLB]

Is that not what the scriptures say? (eg: Acts 13:29-30 and Ephesians 2:5-6). It is a real concern that you have thought I could have a view that conflicts with what scripture says. Do you think I am not entitled to know why?

If there is any fault, it is mine.

I just didn’t understand your point, and was only trying to clarify.

Is that not what the scriptures say?

Yes that’s what the scriptures say.


Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”
Acts 1:9-11


He ascended physically up to heaven and will return the same way.




JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

View attachment 9725
Here is a diagram I made to explain. It won't be like any other explanation, but it won't contradict scripture. Oh, and I didn't know how to draw the Holy Spirit working through ALL that is God.

It's all God's Spirit working through His sovereignty for what He puts in place.

 

[Serving Zion]

Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”
Acts 1:9-11


He ascended physically up to heaven and will return the same way.

1 John 4:1 warns us that not every spirit has been sent by God. I do not see any reason to believe the two men in Acts 1:10-11 were of the Christian spirit (Matthew 24:11). I wonder what you can say about that.

 

[JLB]

1 John 4:1 warns us that not every spirit has been sent by God. I do not see any reason to believe the two men in Acts 1:10-11 were of the Christian spirit (Matthew 24:11). I wonder what you can say about that.

What is a Christian spirit?


Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”
Acts 1:9-11

Here Is what the scripture says —

This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

Do you believe scripture?


Do you believe Jesus will be seen by every eye when He returns?


JLB

 

[Serving Zion]

What is a Christian spirit?

What are you trying to say by saying that?

Here Is what the scripture says —

This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

Do you believe scripture?

That is not what the scripture says, you have misquoted it. The scripture says " suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11“Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.” (Berean Study Bible, Acts 1:10-11).

My question is to you, why have you believed that the words spoken by those two men whom we know nothing about, are to be revered as inspired words of God? You know that there are things said in the bible that are not the inspired words of God, don't you?

Do you believe Jesus will be seen by every eye when He returns?

Yes I do. Jesus has said that His coming will be seen as lightning is seen flashing from East to West.

 

[JLB]

What are you trying to say by saying that?

Its a question.

I‘m asking a question.

What is a Christian spirit?


JLB

 

[JLB]

That is not what the scripture says, you have misquoted it.

Actually I quoted the scripture directly from the Bible.

Here it is again —

Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”
Acts 1:9-11 NKJV


Here Is what the scripture says —

• This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

Do you believe scripture?

Maybe you believe some scripture, but not necessarily this scripture.


Here is the other question I asked you.

It also comes from scripture.


Do you believe Jesus will be seen by every eye when He returns?


Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. Revelation 1:7




JLB

 

[Serving Zion]

Its a question.

I‘m asking a question.

What is a Christian spirit?


JLB

How can you be asking that question and also assuming to teach me about scripture?

 

[Serving Zion]

Do you believe scripture?

I believe the truth of scripture, but that requires that it is handled correctly. In this case, I am showing you that you are not handling the scripture correctly, and I have a valid cause to question the reliability of the claim based upon the origin of the claim.

Maybe you believe some scripture, but not necessarily this scripture.

I believe that the scripture is reliable insofaras it says that the two men said those things. What I don't necessarily believe, is the assumption you have made that the words spoken by those two men are words inspired by God.

There are other examples in the scriptures, of people saying things that are visibly not the inspired words of God. If someone is to copy/paste those words, saying that they come from the bible, should they then be regarded as the words of God?

Here is the other question I asked you.

It also comes from scripture.

Do you believe Jesus will be seen by every eye when He returns?

I answered that question. Do you think you might be able to answer my question too? Here it is again:

My question is to you, why have you believed that the words spoken by those two men whom we know nothing about, are to be revered as inspired words of God? You know that there are things said in the bible that are not the inspired words of God, don't you?

 

[JLB]

I believe the truth of scripture, but that requires that it is handled correctly. In this case, I am showing you that you are not handling the scripture correctly, and I have a valid cause to question the reliability of the claim based upon the origin of the claim.

Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”
Acts 1:9-11 NKJV


Here Is what the scripture says —

• This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

What part of this scripture do you claim that I’m not handling correctly?



JLB

 

[Serving Zion]

Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”
Acts 1:9-11 NKJV


Here Is what the scripture says —

• This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

What part of this scripture do you claim that I’m not handling correctly?



JLB

You are assuming that the words those two men have spoken are inspired by God. That is intellectually dishonest, especially in light of the fact that I have asked you now five times to explain why.

 

[JLB]

I believe that the scripture is reliable insofaras it says that the two men said those things. What I don't necessarily believe, is the assumption you have made that the words those two men said are inspired by God.

Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”
Acts 1:9-11 NKJV

• two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

What is it in this passage that leads you to believe, that these two men who are clothed in what apparel, are speaking falsely?


I believe what they are saying lines up with scripture, in that Jesus was seen ascending to heaven on a cloud and will be seen returning on the clouds of heaven.




JLB

 

[JLB]

You are assuming that the words those two men have spoken are inspired by God. That is intellectually dishonest, especially in light of the fact that I have asked you now five times to explain why.

I believe the scriptures.

I believe these two men were speaking the truth because what they said lines up with scripture, in that Jesus was seen ascending to heaven on a cloud and will be seen returning on the clouds of heaven.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Yes I do. Jesus has said that His coming will be seen as lightning is seen flashing from East to West.

Amen.

Great scripture.

 

[Serving Zion]

What post number was it that you answered this question, that asks.... Do you believe Jesus will be seen by every eye when He returns?

JLB

In post #225 I said "Yes I do". Did you not see that?

 

[JLB]

In post #225 I said "Yes I do". Did you not see that?

yes. I see it.

 

[Serving Zion]

I believe the scriptures.

I believe these two men were speaking the truth because what they said lines up with scripture, in that Jesus was seen ascending to heaven on a cloud and will be seen returning on the clouds of heaven.



JLB

In Mark 14:62, Jesus told the High Priest that he would see Him coming with the clouds of heaven. Do you believe that scripture?

 

[JLB]

In Mark 14:62, Jesus told the High Priest that he would see Him coming with the clouds of heaven. Do you believe that scripture?

Yes.

Jesus will physically return and be seen.

Jesus said, “I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.”
Mark 14:62


“Every eye” means just what it says.

Those in hell, those in heaven and those on earth will see Him.



JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

1 John 4:1 warns us that not every spirit has been sent by God. I do not see any reason to believe the two men in Acts 1:10-11 were of the Christian spirit (Matthew 24:11). I wonder what you can say about that.

Not sure what you mean by a Christian

Ephesians 4:10 actually says He ascended above *all* heavens, and gives the reason why: that He may fill all things. Having been given the name above all names - He is seated at the right hand of the father, whom King Solomon understood was unable to abide within the heavens of the heavens (1 Kings 8:27).

The word "heaven" literally means "the realm above", which is understood in carnal terms as being the sky "where the birds of the heavens" live and the "waters of the heavens" abide.

Genesis begins in fact saying that in the beginning God created the heavens (plural) and the earth. So there is an acknowledgment that a realm exists being higher than the earth, and expressed theology from the start that there are higher realms therein.

Also to note is that the serpent was cursed to go on his belly liking dust, and it being cursed more than every other creature so that it is always lower in status than those of other realms. We understand the fallen angels have been imprisoned in chains of deep darkness too, having fallen from the presence of the Father, and Jesus has descended in order to preach to them. That rebellious, misguided, sinful house is the spiritual realm of the hell that Jesus said the gates of would not prevail against His church (Matthew 16:18) because we follow the guidance of the heavenly father. Thus the grades of the spiritual realm are distinguished as higher or lower in status (John 8:23) and earth is the carnal realm - the battleground, where the spirits war and vie for absolute victory (Daniel 9:26c) and where humans are either slaves to sin or are redeemed as slaves to Christ, or are Christ's freed men.

There are three heavens, thus God using the plural in Genesis 1:

First heaven - The firmament, Earths Atmosphere -which is the immediate sky, where the “fowls of the heaven” (Genesis 2:19; 7:3,23; Psalms 8:8, etc.), “the eagles of heaven” (Lamentations 4:19), it is our atmosphere that surrounds the earth.

Second Heaven - Outer Space, the starry heavens (Deuteronomy 17:3; Jeremiah 8:2; Matthew 24:29).

The second heaven is the starry heavens, where our atmosphere ends. It is the heavens in which the sun, moon, and stars are fixed in orbit.

Third Heaven - This is where God, Jesus and the holy angels dwell plus the very breath of just men dwell as when we die it is that breath that returns back to God. It is called “The heaven of heavens,” (Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalms 115:16; 148:4). (1Kings 8:27) - “The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. The third heaven is beyond the space and stars. Where no man has seen by telescope. This heaven is the dwelling-place of God (John 3:13).

 

[for_his_glory]

1 John 4:1 warns us that not every spirit has been sent by God. I do not see any reason to believe the two men in Acts 1:10-11 were of the Christian spirit (Matthew 24:11). I wonder what you can say about that.

Not sure what you mean by a Christian spirit, can you explain this?

Acts 1:10-11 Those two men that stood by them in white apparel were two angels sent by God as messengers to those who were standing gazing up into heaven. God sent them to let these men know that He who ascended up to heaven will return someday in like manner in His glorified body.