In post #200 I tried to explain this to the best of my understanding as Jesus being coequal to God as being Alpha and Omega, the great I Am.
IMO, I don't think any of us can truly comprehend it thoroughly.
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
An old question- Was Jesus God?
- Thread starter Poor Old Spike
- Start date
In post #200 I tried to explain this to the best of my understanding as Jesus being coequal to God as being Alpha and Omega, the great I Am.
IMO, I don't think any of us can truly comprehend it thoroughly.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
John,
We need to understand that the Council of Nicaea was dealing with the heresy of Arianism, promoted by Arius. He did not believe Jesus was God. So, the Council agreed with Scripture in declaring Jesus God.
Oz
John,
Spike is gone, but the topic of Jesus' deity continues to be a contemporary point of contention, particularly in light of the ever active JWs who knock on our doors.
Let's check a few Scriptures in support of Jesus' deity:
God, the Son, is regarded as God. He has the attributes of deity:
(1) Eternity (Jn 1:15; 8:58; 17:5, 24);
(2) Omniscience (Jn 2:24-25; 16:30; 21:17);
(3) Omnipresence (Mt 18:20; 28:20; Jn 3:13);
(4) Omnipotence. ‘I am the Almighty’ (Rev 1:8; Heb 1:3; Mt 28:18);
(5) Immutable (Heb 1:12; 13:8);
(6) He does the actions of deity:
- He was creator (Jn 1:3; Heb 1:10; Col 1:16);
- holds things together (Col 1:17; Heb 1:3);
- forgives sin (Mt 9:2, 6);
- raises the dead (Jn 6:39-40, 54; 11:25; 20:25, 28);
- he will be the Judge (Jn 5:22) of believers (2 Cor 5:10), of Antichrist and his followers (Rev 19:15), the nations (Ac 17:31), Satan (Gen 3:15) and the living and the dead (Ac 10:42).
Oz
Last edited:
FHG,
Those verses (I read all of them) do not support your claim that "It's three forms of God's Spirit that is manifested in the flesh of Christ being the word of God in the beginning sent down to earth in the flesh of man".
'Three forms of God's Spirit' is the heretical doctrine of the early church.
Modalism and Monarchianism are two false views of the nature of God and of Jesus Christ that appeared in the second and third centuries AD. A modalist views God as one Person instead of three Persons and believes that the Father, Son, and Spirit are simply different modes or forms of the same divine Person. According to modalism, God can switch among three different manifestations. A Monarchian believes in the unity of God (the Latin word monarchia meant “single rule”) to the point that he denies God’s triune nature. Both modalism and Monarchianism inevitably hold to the doctrine of Patripassianism, the teaching that God the Father suffered on the cross with (or as) the Son, and are closely related to Sabellianism (What is Modalism-Monarchianism?)
At this point of your postings, I can't see you promoting an orthodox, biblical understanding of the Trinity. I want to be kind to you. It could be you are thinking out loud as you pursue these issues.
I urge you to do some more thorough study on the Trinity in orthodox systematic theology texts to gain a better understanding (e.g. Geisler, Grudem, Erickson, Berkhof).
Oz
Serving Zion
Member
It is exactly how that picture is imagined in the mind, that is the difficult thing for people, until enough time and the right words have led them to understand it (as I suppose every concept is learned). I think it helps to reinforce that the human body of Jesus was not the eternal thing that spoke (because "the Word became flesh and dwelled among us") therefore the Word, being the son, was with God in the beginning, as God. And also that word belongs to Him who says "heaven and earth will pass away but my words will always remain" .. so who do we recognise as the one who speaks when those words are said? If a person has no concept of spirituality, they will see only the picture of the carnal flesh body of Jesus, and that is what they worship: carnality. Once a person is born again, to recognise the same spirit who said it, is Him who speaks in our midst, then it is a step closer to real understanding of the omniscience of the deity of Christ, and the omnipresence where St. Paul has said "we have the mind of Christ".
Serving Zion
Member
I honestly don’t understand the point you are wanting to make.
So, I asked you a simple question that if answered, would clarify your belief in the subject we are discussing.
Do you agree that Jesus physically ascended to the highest heaven and is seated at the right hand of God?
Thanks, JLB
Serving Zion
Member
I haven’t said anything about you conflicting with the scriptures.
I only asked a question because I don’t really understand from your post, what your point is.
Do you agree that Jesus physically ascended to the highest heaven and is seated at the right hand of God?
JLB
Serving Zion
Member
I know, and that is despite my having asked you to do that three times!
It really does seem that you haven't read me at all, because you asked that question right after I said this:
Ephesians 4:10 actually says He ascended above *all* heavens,
.. therefore, if you cannot understand what I am saying then you need to tell me what I have said that is not what you would naturally expect me to say, in view of the scriptures.
This makes no sense.
I never said or inferred or mentioned, that you are conflicting with the scripture.
You can repeat yourself 1000 times if you like, but it won’t change what I didn’t say.
JLB
I read what you wrote, which is why I asked you the question that I asked.
Here is the question again, with emphasis.
Do you agree that Jesus physically ascended to the highest heaven and is seated at the right hand of God?
JLB
Serving Zion
Member
dianegcook
Member
The trinity is a difficult thing for humans to comprehend.
We are speaking of a different dimension.
In Isa.9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government shall be on His shoulder., and HIS NAME shall be called Wonderful, Councelor, THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER.....
So according to this scripture and others, HE is CALLED GOD.
Period.
The WORD was GOD.....
Jesus was God in the flesh.....
Jesus walked this earth, and was to be an example for us, when Jesus spoke to God, it was for our own benefit, as the example of raising Lazarus.
John 11:42
FATHER, I thank thee that thou hast heard Me..
And I knew that thou hearest Me always,
But, because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe......
The trinity is like different roles that each perform.
Jesus which was God in the flesh played the Saviour role.
Without bloodshed is no remission.
The right-hand is usually referred to power or works....
God's right hand thus, the saving power.....
The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit....
They are One.
.
We are speaking of a different dimension.
In Isa.9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government shall be on His shoulder., and HIS NAME shall be called Wonderful, Councelor, THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER.....
So according to this scripture and others, HE is CALLED GOD.
Period.
The WORD was GOD.....
Jesus was God in the flesh.....
Jesus walked this earth, and was to be an example for us, when Jesus spoke to God, it was for our own benefit, as the example of raising Lazarus.
John 11:42
FATHER, I thank thee that thou hast heard Me..
And I knew that thou hearest Me always,
But, because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe......
The trinity is like different roles that each perform.
Jesus which was God in the flesh played the Saviour role.
Without bloodshed is no remission.
The right-hand is usually referred to power or works....
God's right hand thus, the saving power.....
The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit....
They are One.
.
These are the scriptures I have studied on the Trinity and where I draw my conclusions. I do thank you for giving me those names, but like I have been saying, I really do not think anyone can understand it fully.
Scriptures that reference Jesus being referred to as God:
John 1:1-14; John 10:30; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8, 9; 1 John 5:7, 8, 20; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 2 Corinthians 3:17; 13:14; Isaiah 9:6; 44:6; Luke 1:35; Matthew 1:23; 28:19; John 14:16, 17; Genesis 1:1, 2 (cross reference John 1:1-14); 1 Corinthians 12:4-6; Ephesians 4:4-6; Colossians 1:15-17; John 14:9-11; Philippians 2:5-8; Rev 1:8
Scriptures that refer the Holy Spirit as being God:
Psalms 139:7, 8; John 14:17; 16:13; Isaiah 40:13; 1 Corinthians 2:10, 11; Zechariah 4:6; Luke 1:35; Ephesians 4:4-6; Romans 5:5; 1 Corinthians 6:19; Ephesians 1:13; 1 Thessalonians 1:5; Titus 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21; Jude 1:20
I believe Jesus physically ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of God. How about you, do you believe this?
JLB
dianegcook
Member
LovethroughDove
Member
Here is a diagram I made to explain. It won't be like any other explanation, but it won't contradict scripture. Oh, and I didn't know how to draw the Holy Spirit working through ALL that is God.
Serving Zion
Member