Pregnant woman fired for not marrying fiance

[Deborah13]

yeah I looked into legal services twice 3 years ago and then a year later.They told me since I didnt have children involved and/or abuse wasnt involved I didnt qualify.He has never admitted to his affair and will not even acknowledge there was even a problem but I found plenty for me to leave.Youre right though I would love so much to finally have that over with its his one last way of keeping his thumb on me.Not that Im in a hurry to be married again or even in a relationship.I will talk to God about this again and see if theres something I havent tried/direction he wants me to go(a one way ticket out of this town would be great lol).

In many states now if there are no children and you both agree, you just go to the courthouse fill out a divorce decree form, you sign, he signs, the notary signs, and it's filed with the court clerk. $50 I'm guessing if it's like other types of simple filings.

 

[Deborah13]

I haven't seen anyone say that "if you fornicate with a person you become one flesh in God's eyes" (and I certainly wouldn't agree with that!) I saw some efforts by some members to twist around some other member's statements to try to imply that's what they were saying, but that wasn't the case.

I wasn't saying that anyone in this thread had said that. But I have heard several Christians say that. I heard a pastor in a church I went to say that and he based it on scripture. 1 Corinth. 6:16 . Which makes no sense at all.
In other threads it has been said that one is not married until the marriage is consummated. In the RCC if a marriage has not been consummated then they will allow an annulment.
So what is marriage, I think that it is about the promises we make and that is what God sees and expects us to honor. :neutral

 

[Obadiah]

I wasn't saying that anyone in this thread had said that. But I have heard several Christians say that. I heard a pastor in a church I went to say that and he based it on scripture. 1 Corinth. 6:16 . Which makes no sense at all.
In other threads it has been said that one is not married until the marriage is consummated. In the RCC if a marriage has not been consummated then they will allow an annulment.
So what is marriage, I think that it is about the promises we make and that is what God sees and expects us to honor. :neutral

I see it that way too, it's about the promises (vows) we make to each other and God. As far as consumating, I can't help but wonder how that can be a necessary part of it. What of two people who for some reason are physically incapable?

 

[Deborah13]

Do you care what GOD says about it? He doesn't spell out the ceremony. He says you have to legally obligate yourself to your wife. That's what the wedding license does.

Please show me in the law of Moses where there is any marriage license that must be approved by a civil representative.
What I see is that it was all handled between the families. There was no governmental involvement at all.
And a marriage license does not make a man legally responsible for taking care of his wife either. If she wants him to take care of her she can go to court an file a complaint against him and then if the court agrees and he doesn't do it, then he is breaking the law.

 

[Deborah13]

remember she was bought.

Not always. Sometimes there was no one to receive a dowry.

 

[Deborah13]

It's evil to not be legally bound to the one you're sleeping with. If you're not legally bound to the one you're sleeping with, you are a fornicator. A marriage license just happens to be how you get legally bound to your spouse.

It's pretty meaningless for a couple to accept their own word as their legal bond in marriage. If they really were bound to each other the way they insist, they'd get married to prove it. But as it is, so many are simply leaving the legal door open to leave if they want to some day. Their word is worthless....and they know it. That's why they don't get married.

It is my opinion that you should not be speaking what your motive might be for not getting a marriage license and putting that guilt on others who feel like that marriage is a God given right that the government has no place dictating to. You do realize that when you get a marriage license the state is giving you their permission to marry.
I happen to think that adults don't need the governments permission to get married.

 

[Obadiah]

It is my opinion that you should not be speaking what your motive might be for not getting a marriage license and putting that guilt on others who feel like that marriage is a God given right that the government has no place dictating to. You do realize that when you get a marriage license the state is giving you their permission to marry.
I happen to think that adults don't need the governments permission to get married.

Seems this is a good reason why God gave no requirement for the couple to get a marriage license. For Christians, God is the one who joins the couple together in marriage. He doesn't need the permission or approval of a secular government to do this.

 

[Deborah13]

He plainly said he does not think it necessary to get a marriage license to be married.

Well, neither does the state of Colorado and several other states that still operate under common law, which is Constitutional law.

see the ideas oral writings called the Mishnah which is what the Talmud is an addition to and the sandhedrin uses to base judgment of off. in it its there. that whole ceremony of marriage isn't in the bible, its in the Mishnah!

The Talmud and the Mishnah are not the inspired Word of God. They are full of different opinions from different Rabbis down through the centuries. They are more like commentaries written by different several different men.
They don't even always agree.

I see what you're saying and I'm partially supportive of the idea of keeping the government out of marriage. (Not entirely sure, as there are a few rights granted with that, though the specifics don't come to mind at the moment.) That said, I would consider living together without a marriage license to be guilty of the appearance of evil, if nothing else.

How do you know that everyone in your church has a marriage from a state? There's no visible proof.
Does your church do background checks?

 

[jasonc]

Well, neither does the state of Colorado and several other states that still operate under common law, which is Constitutional law.

The Talmud and the Mishnah are not the inspired Word of God. They are full of different opinions from different Rabbis down through the centuries. They are more like commentaries written by different several different men.
They don't even always agree.

How do you know that everyone in your church has a marriage from a state? There's no visible proof.
Does your church do background checks?

joseph was betrothed to mary, how could he legally have her killed? I quoted that for a reason. so cheat on a man for a divorce and you die? fornication would be one way put noticed it doesn't say that he was to just put her away for that? he had that option, oddly if it was the torah and it alone then it would have been death for her , and the other man if they found him.

 

[Deborah13]

nevermind that any person doesn't have to recongnise any contract that they don't want too if that is to be. marriage is a contract and like it or not that is needful. contracts are in writing. why is that?

Can you write your own will? yes So you can write any agreement or contract you wish and the courts will uphold that contract. You don't have to ask the states permission to enter into a legal contract to buy a house, a car, etc. You and your wife can draw up any contract between you that you choose to and it is legally binding. A pre-nup agreement is not written by the state and you don't need the states permission to write one. But the court will uphold it. Because it's a contract. Under Tort law even an oral contract will be upheld in court if you can prove that there was one. So why should we have to get the states permission to get married?
I guess some people just feel they need one in order to do their duty.

joseph was betrothed to mary, how could he legally have her killed? I quoted that for a reason. so cheat on a man for a divorce and you die? fornication would be one way put noticed it doesn't say that he was to just put her away for that? he had that option, oddly if it was the torah and it alone then it would have been death for her , and the other man if they found him.

Did Joseph have to go to the government to get permission to be betrothed to Mary? Or could they enter into a contract without asking the government first?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Seems this is a good reason why God gave no requirement for the couple to get a marriage license. For Christians, God is the one who joins the couple together in marriage. He doesn't need the permission or approval of a secular government to do this.

God requires that you make a legal commitment to marriage. A license is how we do that today.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It is my opinion that you should not be speaking what your motive might be for not getting a marriage license and putting that guilt on others who feel like that marriage is a God given right that the government has no place dictating to. You do realize that when you get a marriage license the state is giving you their permission to marry.
I happen to think that adults don't need the governments permission to get married.

God requires you to make a legal commitment to your marriage. A license is how we do that today.

God as my witness, Just this past Tuesday a couple I know that thought their co-habitating was a marriage as long as they thought it was have officially ended their relationship. No fanfare (except for the brutal fighting they did), no legal issues to deal with. And you know why? Because they never made a legal commitment to the 'marriage' to begin with.

Deborah, I asked some pretty thought provoking questions about this subject. Feel free to answer them.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

By avoiding the legal aspect of marriage you actually are denying the commitment you claim you have in the relationship. Deborah, people can't hide this simple fact. Over and over again we see the lack of a marriage certificate was actually a lack of commitment and willingness to take responsibility in the marriage. I'm not projecting my own feelings and opinions onto this matter. I sees what I sees with my own eyes.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Without the legal commitment that God requires in marriage you are doing nothing but fornicating. The way we make that legal commitment today is we get a marriage license.

 

[ReginaForbes]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink...
Although we THINK we know what is best for people, we may not always be right. She may have had very valid reasons for not wanting to marry the father of her child. Yes, she is doing a dis-service to the child by not marrying his/her father, but we cannot make judgement calls for her. It's sad that some people forget about grace and mercy.

 

[ReginaForbes]

Without the legal commitment that God requires in marriage you are doing nothing but fornicating. The way we make that legal commitment today is we get a marriage license.

I'm married without a license. My husband and I felt that the procuring of a license violates Exodus 23:32, Exodus 34:12, Deuteronomy 7:2, etc. Besides that, it is also a violation of the Constitution. My husband and I have made a covenant between ourselves and the Living God- recognized and blessed until death do us part. Unlike marriage licensure, divorce is NOT an option. Furthermore, there were no marriage licenses before 1923, that means all of our grandparents, great-grandparents (and some of our parents) did not receive a marriage license.

 

[reba]

it is not the licence that keeps me married. Heaven knows it is not my husband. It is my vow before God.

 

[ReginaForbes]

Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." therefore, the question is, to WHOM does marriage belong? God or Ceasar. If you believe it belongs to "Caesar" then by all means, beg him for recognition of your marriage, but if you feel it belongs to God, then you have no need of "Caesar's" approval.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink...
Although we THINK we know what is best for people, we may not always be right. She may have had very valid reasons for not wanting to marry the father of her child. Yes, she is doing a dis-service to the child by not marrying his/her father, but we cannot make judgement calls for her. It's sad that some people forget about grace and mercy.

Grace is not a license to sin and continue in sin. Grace means having God's forgiveness for the sin that has been found out and having the power to then repent of that sin. But the church has interpreted grace as a license to sin. If this woman is a member of the church and she does not receive God's grace in forgiveness and repentance and a renouncing of her sin she has no place in the church. I personally would not attend a church that taught that grace means you can sin.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I'm married without a license. My husband and I felt that the procuring of a license violates Exodus 23:32, Exodus 34:12, Deuteronomy 7:2, etc. Besides that, it is also a violation of the Constitution. My husband and I have made a covenant between ourselves and the Living God- recognized and blessed until death do us part. Unlike marriage licensure, divorce is NOT an option. Furthermore, there were no marriage licenses before 1923, that means all of our grandparents, great-grandparents (and some of our parents) did not receive a marriage license.

Are you afraid your commitment is not as strong as a piece of paper binding you to the other person? Of course you'll say 'no'. Then I will ask, "then why don't you just do it?" What are you afraid of?

I liken it to baptism. The 'believer' can insist it has no bearing on their relationship with God and that baptism is really just a big nothing. But if that's the case why do they go out of their way to avoid it, almost despising it? It's very irrational logic. The rest of us can see right through it.