davidtitor
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- Oct 27, 2015
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Cannot believe the time when they realize who they killed is God.
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Pharisees believe in God, but killed Jesus, why they didn't accept God's incarnation?
- Thread starter davidtitor
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davidtitor
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- Oct 27, 2015
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- Thread starter
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Ok, I am quite confused that the time they killed Jesus on cross, did them realized he is the God?
- Dec 11, 2010
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Hi davidtitor and welcome to the forums. Please review the guidelines for this forum. Can you rephrase your opening posts to comply with these guidelines?
davidtitor
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- Oct 27, 2015
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J
jocor
Guest
The Jews knew full well that they were not killing the "Eternal God" of Deut 33:27 who created all things. They knew Yahweh existed from before creation up to their day. They knew that "God" could not die. They also did not know they killed "God's" Son (Luke 23:34). They even doubted that he was the Messiah, the chosen of "God" (Luke 23:34).
Sinthesis
Member
- Feb 23, 2009
- 5,188
- 264
They accepted Jesus as messiah until they realized He wouldn't be the messiah they expected or wanted. Nobody accepts Jesus is God until they have converted, and this was not possible until after the resurrection. Jesus had to die and resurrect before anyone could accept He is God.
smaller
Member
- Oct 23, 2003
- 12,380
- 664
Jesus shows a very important Spiritual Principle with the Pharisees.
It's found in Mark 4:15. And since the "priesthood" is on the "front lines" of the noted in Mark 4:15 battles, they are in fact the "first" to fall, because they dispensed and handled God's Words.
The principle is this, that God's Word not only moves man, but also moves Satan to resist God's Words, IN man. This is perhaps somewhat critical to understand. If any believer thinks themselves "exempt" from this "internal activity" they have already been stolen from.
And what we see subsequently "in" the Pharisees is actually the workings of DEVILS in their hearts (John 8:44), noted by the clear and prevailing signs of hypocrisy and self justifications.
This remains a "common anti-spiritual" reality today.
It's found in Mark 4:15. And since the "priesthood" is on the "front lines" of the noted in Mark 4:15 battles, they are in fact the "first" to fall, because they dispensed and handled God's Words.
The principle is this, that God's Word not only moves man, but also moves Satan to resist God's Words, IN man. This is perhaps somewhat critical to understand. If any believer thinks themselves "exempt" from this "internal activity" they have already been stolen from.
And what we see subsequently "in" the Pharisees is actually the workings of DEVILS in their hearts (John 8:44), noted by the clear and prevailing signs of hypocrisy and self justifications.
This remains a "common anti-spiritual" reality today.
smaller
Member
- Oct 23, 2003
- 12,380
- 664
Jesus said some really hard and brutal things to the pharisees.
So, if we don't want to be one, then we have to take what Jesus said to them, seriously, personally, as they obviously didn't.
And I would observe, they could NOT listen or heed.
IF Jesus said things to them that they could NOT believe, then it may be best to actually 'believe' what was being conveyed.
Here's an easy test: Jesus said this to the Pharisees. They rejected His Sight and Statement.
Matthew 23:25
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
If you say, why, that's not ME! you perhaps missed the point. You would in fact be seeing Jesus statement of fact the same way the Pharisees did, and would be offended.
The Gospel is offensive in this way.
Matthew 7:15
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Same exercise. Oh, no, not ME!
Take every woe, and listen. If you can't take it personally, tag! You can't HEAR. No differently than them.
I was personally challenged by this exercise myself, by a couple of different dear believing brothers. Neither knew each others, but both were right. I could not hear.
It caused me to "reverse course," quickly, about much of what I had been handed down and taught by "other religious (christian) Pharisees."
Matthew 23:13
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Sound familiar? It should. These cries and claims still transpire, today, even here.
Matthew 23:14
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Matthew 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Matthew 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Matthew 23:27
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Matthew 23:
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Luke 11:42
But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Luke 11:43
Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye love the uppermost seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets.
If a "believer" hasn't either been trained by such, followed such, or done such in the above, they can not hear.
For the record, I was nailed on every count, one way or another.
In some of the above we can retract, and retrace our steps. But there are other matters above that are just Rock Solid facts that can't be changed. FOR EXAMPLE, when we understand the facts of sin, of internal evil, of sin being of the devil, we can see the ravenous wolf much clearer. And yes, it is a fact and a continuing battle:
A disciple of Jesus will and must learn to be predominant over the enemies in our own flesh/mind and heart, NOT deny that we engage these enemies, within.
Matthew 10:16
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
So, if we don't want to be one, then we have to take what Jesus said to them, seriously, personally, as they obviously didn't.
And I would observe, they could NOT listen or heed.
IF Jesus said things to them that they could NOT believe, then it may be best to actually 'believe' what was being conveyed.
Here's an easy test: Jesus said this to the Pharisees. They rejected His Sight and Statement.
Matthew 23:25
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
If you say, why, that's not ME! you perhaps missed the point. You would in fact be seeing Jesus statement of fact the same way the Pharisees did, and would be offended.
The Gospel is offensive in this way.
Matthew 7:15
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Same exercise. Oh, no, not ME!
Take every woe, and listen. If you can't take it personally, tag! You can't HEAR. No differently than them.
I was personally challenged by this exercise myself, by a couple of different dear believing brothers. Neither knew each others, but both were right. I could not hear.
It caused me to "reverse course," quickly, about much of what I had been handed down and taught by "other religious (christian) Pharisees."
Matthew 23:13
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Sound familiar? It should. These cries and claims still transpire, today, even here.
Matthew 23:14
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Matthew 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Matthew 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Matthew 23:27
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Matthew 23:
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Luke 11:42
But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Luke 11:43
Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye love the uppermost seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets.
If a "believer" hasn't either been trained by such, followed such, or done such in the above, they can not hear.
For the record, I was nailed on every count, one way or another.
In some of the above we can retract, and retrace our steps. But there are other matters above that are just Rock Solid facts that can't be changed. FOR EXAMPLE, when we understand the facts of sin, of internal evil, of sin being of the devil, we can see the ravenous wolf much clearer. And yes, it is a fact and a continuing battle:
A disciple of Jesus will and must learn to be predominant over the enemies in our own flesh/mind and heart, NOT deny that we engage these enemies, within.
Matthew 10:16
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
dianegcook
Member
- Sep 13, 2012
- 1,813
- 903
That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled.
John 12:37-43
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart, that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
42;
Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue,
For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
John 12:37-43
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart, that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
42;
Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue,
For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
LovethroughDove
Member
- Sep 30, 2014
- 2,689
- 1,360
John 8:42-47 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."
Like other people have mentioned, they could not hear the truth because they loved the lie more. This is why he asked them if they can prove him as a liar (guilty of sin)..............they could not!
Like other people have mentioned, they could not hear the truth because they loved the lie more. This is why he asked them if they can prove him as a liar (guilty of sin)..............they could not!
God's plan for salvation was laid out from the foundations of the world..
Rev_13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Those guys at that time did not have a choice...
Rev_13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Those guys at that time did not have a choice...
Jim Parker
Member
- Apr 17, 2015
- 11,259
- 2,694
What do you think would happen today if Jesus showed up in some of our mainline churches today?
What do you think Jesus would have to say at a church that used to preach the gospel but was now conducting a same-sex marriage ceremony?
What do you think Jesus would say at a church that teaches that God wants everybody rich?
How do you think the "pastors" of those churches would react to Jesus' comments?
Just askin.........
iakov the fool
Blake
Member
- Oct 7, 2014
- 1,000
- 611
Indeed. If that were to happen, a lot of us might be surprised at just how pharasaical WE have become.
Corn Pop
Member
- Feb 17, 2013
- 25,176
- 6,596
Jesus would preach the Gospel to his flock, then collect his tithe wages daily earnings and go buy a new mercedes benz.
He needs it for church reasons, upgrade from donkey.
Jim Parker
Member
- Apr 17, 2015
- 11,259
- 2,694
Are you trying to be offensive?
Corn Pop
Member
- Feb 17, 2013
- 25,176
- 6,596
No. Why would I try be offensive. Do you think I could offend Jesus?,even if I did he would just wipe the dust off his feet.
Jim Parker
Member
- Apr 17, 2015
- 11,259
- 2,694
Are you trying to be funny? It can be rather difficult in this medium and easily misconstrued.
