True. He was a Pharisee. But he was not a devil.
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Pharisees believe in God, but killed Jesus, why they didn't accept God's incarnation?
- Thread starter davidtitor
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True. He was a Pharisee. But he was not a devil.
smaller
Member
Picture: Judas/Satan entered. Was ONE of them a devil? Uh, yeah. The DEVIL.
It is a principle of the Gospel. Not only is every unbeliever 'blinded' in their minds to the Gospel by Satan, the devil, the god of this world ala Mark 4:15, Acts 26:18, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2 etc, every sin of everyone is also connected directly to the devil via 1 John 3:8.
So, yeah, Mark 4:15 and the other seed parables IS a universal matter for all of mankind.
And as such, it is entirely pointless to see 'just man' in any theological equation because there are "other parties" to these matters that are NOT man, called the devil and his messengers.
Jesus said, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” John 6:70 Satan entering Judas does not change the fact Judas was a devil.
By your own logic Jesus chose an innocent man to betray him.
Certainly not. Mark 4:15 says if a man does not understand, then Satan snatches away what was sown. So whatever words were sown will be taken away. So we know who they are who do not understand. His word isn't in them. They never quote Jesus. It's always one line in Paul and they can not even understand that.
smaller
Member
I know 2 things on this subject.
A. That mankind are not devils
and
B. That I can look at Judas as a man, and also see that Satan entered him, and that this means ONE of them was a devil, and that would be THE DEVIL. John 13:27, Luke 22:3
It's only unfortunate when 'believers' can't see the obvious DEVIL in the equations, and then multiply such lack of sight by making people into devils.
Jesus did not come to save any devils. And no devils are "converted" into children of God.
IF mankind are devils, then Jesus saves no one and we're wasting our time.
Jim Parker
Member
Jesus was using a metaphor. If we follow such a literal understanding of that statement then, if someone says of a man, "He's a jackass." then, if you said "hello" to that man, would you fully expect him to respond with, "HEE-haw"?
Judas was a flesh and blood human being. At John 6:71 he is referred to as Judas the son of Simon the Iscariot. Human beings so not beget demons as sons. They beget human beings. (OK, except in comic books)
Another example is found at John 8:44 where Jesus said to the Pharisees, “You are of your father the devil..." Obviously, their fathers were not literally devils since the pharisees were all flesh and blood. Angels, fallen or not, do not beget human beings.
So Judas was not literally a devil but he did the devil's work.
iakov the fool
smaller
Member
Jesus was using a metaphor. If we follow such a literal understanding of that statement then, if someone says of a man, "He's a jackass." then, if you said "hello" to that man, would you fully expect him to respond with, "HEE-haw"?
Judas was a flesh and blood human being. At John 6:71 he is referred to as Judas the son of Simon the Iscariot. Human beings so not beget demons as sons. They beget human beings. (OK, except in comic books)
Another example is found at John 8:44 where Jesus said to the Pharisees, “You are of your father the devil..." Obviously, their fathers were not literally devils since the pharisees were all flesh and blood. Angels, fallen or not, do not beget human beings.
So Judas was not literally a devil but he did the devil's work.
iakov the fool
Seeing we probably agree on basics, I applaud your sight above.
What this really means for theology is almost always overlooked.
There are two parties involved. A captive and a CAPTOR.
Everyone is "subject" to the intrusions of the CAPTOR in their flesh through lusts, temptations, deceptions, etc. etc.
Sadly, few figure this out and even fewer seem to be able to pin the real culprit down, preferring to think themselves as "immune." Nothing could be further from the truth, and imho, that itself is proof of the blinding power of the CAPTOR.
1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Count 'em. TWO PARTIES.
Same with the Pharisee's. There is a Pharisee, and a 'child of the devil' involved with the Pharisee's. Again, TWO.
The scriptural math can't be any clearer.
One of those parties, Jesus LOVED. The other were His enemies, that Jesus came to DIVIDE them from.
So, which one wasn't hearing?
Matthew 13:13
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
2 Corinthians 3:14
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Count 'em. TWO PARTIES. One location.
Again, in Romans 9:18-24
Again, in 2 Cor. 12:7
Again, in 2 Tim. 2:20-21
Again, in Romans 11:8
There are so many examples of this in the N.T. it's only amazing that "believers" can't see it. So, WHY? Uh, yeah. Do the math. Except ONE of these parties won't do the math, and can't do the math and will not allow the CAPTIVE to do the math, to see the math, to hear the math.
Jim Parker
Member
Jesus was using a metaphor. If we follow such a literal understanding of that statement then, if someone says of a man, "He's a jackass." then, if you said "hello" to that man, would you fully expect him to respond with, "HEE-haw"?
Judas was a flesh and blood human being. At John 6:71 he is referred to as Judas the son of Simon the Iscariot. Human beings so not beget demons as sons. They beget human beings. (OK, except in comic books)
Another example is found at John 8:44 where Jesus said to the Pharisees, “You are of your father the devil..." Obviously, their fathers were not literally devils since the pharisees were all flesh and blood. Angels, fallen or not, do not beget human beings.
So Judas was not literally a devil but he did the devil's work.
iakov the fool
Those who hear the words of God are of God. The reason you don't hear them is because you are not of God. John 8:47
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Jim Parker
Member
Absolutely
Then what is this name calling business that you can't hear? Jesus' sayings are teachings not name calling.
Jim Parker
Member
Do you mean like:
Mat 15:7 “Hypocrites!"
or
Mat 22:18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, “Why do you test Me, you hypocrites?"
or
Mat 23:13, 14, 15, 23, 25, 27, and 29 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!"
or
Mat 12:34 “Brood of vipers!"
or
Mat 23:33 “Serpents, brood of vipers!"
or
Jhn 6:70 “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?”
Those sayings and teachings?
Iakov the fool
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Just what I said.
Jim Parker
Member
Jim Parker
Member
Who said there are no devils????
Do you mean like:
Mat 15:7 “Hypocrites!"
or
Mat 22:18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, “Why do you test Me, you hypocrites?"
or
Mat 23:13, 14, 15, 23, 25, 27, and 29 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!"
or
Mat 12:34 “Brood of vipers!"
or
Mat 23:33 “Serpents, brood of vipers!"
or
Jhn 6:70 “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?”
Those sayings and teachings?
Iakov the fool
That's not the same as calling someone a 'jackass'.
The Pharisees were hypocrites and they were devils. Jesus said the Pharisees were of the devil. 'you are of your father the devil.'
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Is a devil a metaphor or not?
Jim Parker
Member
whatever
Jim Parker
Member
It depends on the context in which the word is used.
Jim Parker
Member
They were hypocrites.
They were not devils. They were flesh and blood human beings. Devils are incorporeal spirits, fallen angels.