should we have billionaires?

[jasonc]

True, and its a competition between farming and industry for that scarce resource. Its being used much faster than its being replenished.

Big evil bodies of water,reverse osmosis .problem solved.

Or reuse ,just like the space station does and submarines and navy ships for years.water unless contained will cycle back to,the ocean .

 

[WIP]

True, and its a competition between farming and industry for that scarce resource. Its being used much faster than its being replenished.

It's more than just farming and industry. People use the water too.

Here's a big part of the problem. More and more farmers are drilling wells to supply irrigation systems in dry times and on dry soils to improve crop health and this draws water from the aquifer. At the same time, many also install pattern tiling to draw surface water off the fields in wet times and on wet areas to improve crop health and this diverts water to rivers and eventually the ocean that would otherwise be soaking into the soil to replenish the aquifer. As a result there is a net loss for the aquifer.

Industry falls into the same group as people. Both draw water from city or local wells to draw water from the aquifer for processing, cooking, washing, waste management, etc. Many of the city sewage treatment facilities have open systems where water is collected in pools where it evaporates rather than being allowed to permeate back into the soil to replenish the aquifer. The end result is a net loss for the aquifer.

Also, when it comes to people and industry, every building, street, highway, parking lot, etc. occupies surface area, preventing rain water from permeating back into the soil to replenish the aquifer. Additionally, most if not all cities also employ storm water controls to handle the rain water and just like farmers' tiling systems, the water is diverted to rivers and eventually the ocean that would otherwise be soaking into the soil and replenishing the aquifer.

Over the past 50 years, the average family in the US has dropped from about four down to about 2.5 while at the same time the average size family home in the US has increase almost double. This means that every man, woman, and child today consumes approximately 4x the land surface area as we did 50 years ago. Plus, the population of the US has increased by 60% in the same 50 year span. This all translates into more water consumption and less water being allowed to permeate into the soil to replenish the aquifer and results in a net loss for the aquifer.

Although I haven't found any information about this, it is also my belief that I am not going too far out on a limb to say the amount of land consumed by cities per capita has increased quite a bit in the last 50 years as well. This too means less land area to absorb water and replenish the aquifer resulting in a net loss.

We are all part of the problem and pointing fingers elsewhere is self righteous.

 

[Michael74]

Big evil bodies of water,reverse osmosis .problem solved.

Desalinization uses vast amounts of energy, and is hideously expensive. Its mostly only Saudi that does a significant amount of desalinization. Oil subsidizes it. Few places have that kind of oil to subsidize the process.

 

[Michael74]

Over the past 50 years, the average family in the US has dropped from about four down to about 2.5 while at the same time the average size family home in the US has increase almost double. This means that every man, woman, and child today consumes approximately 4x the land surface area as we did 50 years ago.

Yes, non safety zoning that mandates fantastic McMansions is contributing to the situation. Allowing people to build modest homes would help.

 

[jasonc]

Desalinization uses vast amounts of energy, and is hideously expensive. Only Saudi does a significant amount of desalinization. Oil subsidizes it. Few places have that kind of oil to subsidize the process.

Florida wells even at 1000 ft has salt ,the county and the city grids ,the later using reverse osmosis since 91 and fully,reverse osmotic is cheaper then the county also fully osmotic .water bills because of higher use is 30 dollars a month .

You can't have water from,a well,in,my,stare without risk of salt water intrusion .its Not that expensive the membranes remove impurities then using lime or treated well water the water is drinkable ,can't drink ro,it can in large amounts kill you .

 

[Michael74]

Florida wells even at 1000 ft has salt ,the county and the city grids ,the later using reverse osmosis since 91 and fully,reverse osmotic is cheaper then the county also fully osmotic .water bills because of higher use is 30 dollars a month .

Yes, but lightly salted wells are not the same as the ocean's heavy salt. Plus you only need to treat enough from wells to drink. Desalinating the ocean to produce water for showering, maintaining the lawn, industry, plus drinking is very expensive.

 

[jasonc]

Yes, but lightly salted wells are not the same as the ocean's heavy salt. Plus you only need to treat enough from wells to drink. Desalinating the ocean to produce water for showering, maintaining the lawn, industry, plus drinking is very expensive.

Ok if you say so,we don't dump the brine back into,the ocean or river as it kills fish ,its not as you say,it's the opposite .the brine can't be dumped into the lagoon ,it must be filtered .massive amount of gallons is filtered and then brine flushed .the county has three area to rid brine .I live not far from one,worked at one time south of the main one,the city deep,well one I have seen .

Miillions of gallons treated daily ,when you buy salt that's from reverse osmosis not a salt mine.

 

[Michael74]

Wired article on pros and cons of desalinization.

Won't help inland arable farmland.

 

[jasonc]

Wired article on pros and cons of desalinization.

Won't help inland arable farmland.

Florida's use of irrigation canals instead of water grids predates most cities.my,county using them.drained the land first then later on using it for irrigation and also the marsh system.

The only north flowing river in the US. Starts in my county and years ago during a hard rain. You could canoe from the st.johns river to the lake Okeechobee .much of the marsh connecting that is still around .

I never said it was the only solution .you wouldn't drink irrigation water ,reuse is often used ,or plain untreated brackish water ,think of all the oil leaks working into that and you drinking it

 

[Michael74]

...think of all the oil leaks working into that and you drinking it

Yuck.

 

[jasonc]

Most farm irrigation is reuse ,as well,as irrigation for properties .they save water by selling reuse .sometimes they pressuruze it

 

[daninthelionsden]

Florida's use of irrigation canals instead of water grids predates most cities.my,county using them.drained the land first then later on using it for irrigation and also the marsh system.

The only north flowing river in the US. Starts in my county and years ago during a hard rain. You could canoe from the st.johns river to the lake Okeechobee .much of the marsh connecting that is still around .

I never said it was the only solution .you wouldn't drink irrigation water ,reuse is often used ,or plain untreated brackish water ,think of all the oil leaks working into that and you drinking it

Water wells where oil fracking has been done are at risk of chemical contamination. In some cases, this has already happened. Of course, the lovers of money deny this.

 

[jasonc]

Most farm irrigation is reuse ,as well,as irrigation for properties .they save water by selling reuse .

 

[jasonc]

Water wells where oil fracking has been done are at risk of chemical contamination. In some cases, this has already happened. Of course, the lovers of money deny this.

As is the case with lithium,silica mines .

 

[WIP]

Water wells where oil fracking has been done are at risk of chemical contamination. In some cases, this has already happened. Of course, the lovers of money deny this.

Not just the lovers of money. We want the oil so we can get our gasoline, diesel fuel, home heating oils, LP gas, and yes even natural gas, etc. at prices we can afford. For everything we do there is a consequence.

Imagine the carbon footprint and ecological impact if we never learned how to use crude oil or coal but just burned wood. Air pollution would be a far, far bigger problem then it is today with soot, ash, and toxic gases pouring into the atmosphere at much higher rates than they are now.

We keep pointing our fingers at big business and government while excluding ourselves when we as a unit comprise a much higher contribution to the problem. We want lower carbon emissions but we expect and wait for government to do the work when we as a people can already take huge steps toward improving the situation. How many of us have invested in the highest efficiency automobiles to replace our lower ones? I'm not talking about electric cars either because they demand electricity and 75% of our electricity comes from carbon fuel sources.

How many of us have started to pedal bicycles or walk to our jobs, especially when we could do one or the other faster than driving a car? How many of us are car-pooling with multiple others? How many of us are downsizing our homes to return land back to nature and reduce our consumption of land area? How many of us have replaced our incandescent lamps with LEDs? How many of us make a conscious effort to save water or reduce waste? We want and feel we deserve all the niceties of life but we are not willing to sacrifice for them ourselves unless we force others to do likewise by pressuring government to mandate it.

God says to love one another. He doesn't say to demand it from others nor does He say to wait for government to mandate it by law. The same is true with caring for our earth.

 

[daninthelionsden]

Not just the lovers of money. We want the oil so we can get our gasoline, diesel fuel, home heating oils, LP gas, and yes even natural gas, etc. at prices we can afford. For everything we do there is a consequence.

Imagine the carbon footprint and ecological impact if we never learned how to use crude oil or coal but just burned wood. Air pollution would be a far, far bigger problem then it is today with soot, ash, and toxic gases pouring into the atmosphere at much higher rates than they are now.

We keep pointing our fingers at big business and government while excluding ourselves when we as a unit comprise a much higher contribution to the problem. We want lower carbon emissions but we expect and wait for government to do the work when we as a people can already take huge steps toward improving the situation. How many of us have invested in the highest efficiency automobiles to replace our lower ones? I'm not talking about electric cars either because they demand electricity and 75% of our electricity comes from carbon fuel sources.

How many of us have started to pedal bicycles or walk to our jobs, especially when we could do one or the other faster than driving a car? How many of us are car-pooling with multiple others? How many of us are downsizing our homes to return land back to nature and reduce our consumption of land area? How many of us have replaced our incandescent lamps with LEDs? How many of us make a conscious effort to save water or reduce waste? We want and feel we deserve all the niceties of life but we are not willing to sacrifice for them ourselves unless we force others to do likewise by pressuring government to mandate it.

God says to love one another. He doesn't say to demand it from others nor does He say to wait for government to mandate it by law. The same is true with caring for our earth.

I agree that individuals need to take personal accountability, but those in a position of power are more accountable simply because they have much more influence, resources and manpower to do more than suck the "lifeblood" from the earth in an irresponsible way.

 

[WIP]

I agree that individuals need to take personal accountability, but those in a position of power are more accountable simply because they have much more influence, resources and manpower to do more than suck the "lifeblood" from the earth in an irresponsible way.

Here's the hypocrisy. We push our own agendas through government control but in the mean time don't actually live according to our agendas. We don't put our money where our mouth is. I'll give you an example.

Those who are pushing for green new deal still drive their filthy carbon-producing automobiles instead of pedaling a bicycle, walking, or even riding a horse to their destinations. They still use electric washing machines and dryers to launder their clothing instead of doing it by hand. They spend hours on their cell phones, computers, and televisions and all of these things consume electricity, 75% of which is still produced using carbon-based fuels.

I either read this or was told this once but I believe it makes a world of sense. "The best, most influential leaders are those who are willing to go where they require others to go."

 

[daninthelionsden]

Here's the hypocrisy. We push our own agendas through government control but in the mean time don't actually live according to our agendas. We don't put our money where our mouth is. I'll give you an example.

Those who are pushing for green new deal still drive their filthy carbon-producing automobiles instead of pedaling a bicycle, walking, or even riding a horse to their destinations. They still use electric washing machines and dryers to launder their clothing instead of doing it by hand. They spend hours on their cell phones, computers, and televisions and all of these things consume electricity, 75% of which is still produced using carbon-based fuels.

I either read this or was told this once but I believe it makes a world of sense. "The best, most influential leaders are those who are willing to go where they require others to go."

I agree partially with what you're saying, but to be truly objective and step back to take a look, we have to include those who place themselves above the rest. The elite consider themselves our leaders yet they do little to make a dent in the waste.
If each new house built were mandated to have solar panels/water heaters, that would take considerable load off of the electric grid. Cars were mandated to become safer through seatbelts/airbags through their manufacturing. This was a good thing for the most part. Houses can be mandated to become much more energy efficient/independent as well.

 

[jasonc]

I agree partially with what you're saying, but to be truly objective and step back to take a look, we have to include those who place themselves above the rest. The elite consider themselves our leaders yet they do little to make a dent in the waste.
If each new house built were mandated to have solar panels/water heaters, that would take considerable load off of the electric grid. Cars were mandated to become safer through seatbelts/airbags through their manufacturing. This was a good thing for the most part. Houses can be mandated to become much more energy efficient/independent as well.

Mandated solar or solar water heaters,imagine a storm ripping off then and no power .

Imagine the impact of large scale silica mining ,net meter,can't always produce power in the summer ,

Renewable Energy Intermittency Explained: Challenges, Solutions, and Opportunities

Critics of renewable energy often cite the fact that technologies like wind and solar only produce energy when the wind is blowing or the sun is shining.

blogs.scientificamerican.com

Cant help,but use batteries in a house .

 

[jasonc]

How Intermittent Renewables Are Harming The Electricity Grid | OilPrice.com

Many people are hoping for wind and solar PV to transform grid electricity in a favorable way, but when you analyze the impact of renewables on the grid, this outcome seems unlikely

www.google.com