Bible Study Why would the Apostle Paul say such a thing?

[JLB]

Abraham - please read Genesis 22 about his scrafice.

God told him to sacrifice his son, which God stoppped him and provided His own sacrifice.

Again this was not a sacrifice for sin.

It was the obedience of faith.


JLB

 

[JLB]

You spreading a false gospel!

It’s not the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


Noah was declared righteous by faith, because he obeyed God.

Same with Abel.

Here is the Gospel being preached to Abraham.


Now the LORD had said to Abram:
“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
So Abram departed as the LORD had spoken to him,
Genesis 12:1-4



JLB

 

[JLB]

You spreading a false gospel! Brother Stovebolts please speak to him about this asap!

Abraham - please read Genesis 22 about his scrafice.

The O/T Saints where saved by their Faith in God and by their Faith in that sacrifice they took to the high priest would forgive them of their sins. All whose faith was only in God and forsook the sacrifice went to hell.

New N/T Saints are doing the same as the O/T Saints. They say their faith is in Jesus (God), but have no faith in the atoning Sacrifice (the Lamb of God-Christ Crucified 1 Cor. 2:2). This is called Apostasy. Matthew 7:14, Matthew 7:21-23

Please post the scripture that says we must “place and maintain our faith exclusively in Christ and Him crucified”.

That way we can discuss the scripture you are referring to.




JLB

 

[JLB]

You spreading a false gospel! Brother Stovebolts please speak to him about this asap!

Please post the scripture that says we must “place and maintain our faith exclusively in Christ and Him crucified”.


That way we can determine who is spreading a false gospel.



JLB

 

[Quantrill]

Brother read it again.

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
2 Corinthians 5:21

What does become mean to you?


John says it this way —


But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:12


JLB

It means what it says. God made Christ sin that we might become the righteousness of God in Christ. God's plan of salvation is a progressive work with Him, going all the way back to Adam. Leading to our being 'in Christ', which was a tremendous work on His part. We are the righteousness of God, only 'in Christ'.

If you're suggesting our 'becoming sons or children of God' in (John 1:11) is a process for the believer also, I disagree. Contrast was made in (1:10) between Christ's own, and those who were not His own. In other words, Jews and Gentiles. Christ's own rejected Him. Those that received Him who were not His own, He gave the power or right to become the children of God. Which occurs through belief. (1:12)

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

You are declared righteous because you are righteous...
not because you are righteous.


Do you understand the law of faith; the righteousness of faith?



JLB

I don't understand your first statement.

I know what I understand. Doesn't mean I agree with what you understand.

Quantrill

 

[JLB]

It means what it says. God made Christ sin that we might become the righteousness of God in Christ.

I agree. That we might become the righteousness of God in Christ.

Do you believe we must mature, that is to say, grow up into Christ? That we must mature in our ability to walk as a Jesus walked?

• till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children

And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ.
Ephesians 4:11-15



JLB

 

[JLB]

I don't understand your first statement.

I know what I understand. Doesn't mean I agree with what you understand.

Quantrill

Im sorry, this was a typo. I fixed it. When i type from my phone sometimes I will write out a word and my phone just decides to change the word into a different word.

I find myself having to go back and fix things in my posts all the time.


You are declared righteous because you are righteous...
not because you are unrighteous.

IOW if God declares us to be righteous, we are right with Him.


Here is the principle of righteousness.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
1 John 3:7





But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 2 Timothy 2:20-22


Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace...






JLB

 

[Quantrill]

I agree. That we might become the righteousness of God in Christ.

Do you believe we must mature, that is to say, grow up into Christ? That we must mature in our ability to walk as a Jesus walked?

• till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children

And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ.
Ephesians 4:11-15



JLB

But, you don't agree with what I said.

I have said that we grow in maturity. Just as in our knowledge of God. Just as we grow in faith. But, we do not grow in righteousness.

The day you were born-again, you were as righteous as you will ever be.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Im sorry, this was a typo. I fixed it. When i type from my phone sometimes I will write out a word and my phone just decides to change the word into a different word.

I find myself having to go back and fix things in my posts all the time.


You are declared righteous because you are righteous...
not because you are unrighteous.

IOW if God declares us to be righteous, we are right with Him.


Here is the principle of righteousness.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
1 John 3:7





But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 2 Timothy 2:20-22


Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace...






JLB

I don't agree with your statement that you are declared righteous because you are righteous. If that is so, then it is your righteousness. And it is not an imputed righteousness that you stand in. It is yours.

(1 John) is a difficult book. He is not writing as Paul does. He brings in stark contrasts that appear at times to contradict. All he says is true, but you really have to study the book. To just pull a verse out of (1 John) to prove a point could be misleading.

For example, John says in (1 John 3:9) "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin because he is born of God."

So if I see a Christian sin, then I know, according to this verse, that he is not a Christian. Because a Christian cannot sin. Right?

Quantrill

 

[Edward]

The day you were born-again, you were as righteous as you will ever be.

True enough, but consider that this is in spirit only and not in the flesh. Now go out there and be ye Holy, even as He is Holy...but walk this out in your flesh. Pursue it in your flesh. Bringing your flesh into subjection to your spirit.

 

[JLB]

But, you don't agree with what I said.

I have said that we grow in maturity. Just as in our knowledge of God. Just as we grow in faith. But, we do not grow in righteousness.

The day you were born-again, you were as righteous as you will ever be.

Quantrill

The day we were born again, we were “accredited“ with righteousness.

Again we must understand the principle of faith; the righteousness which is according to faith.

Abram believed the LORD, and He credited it to him as righteousness. Genesis 15:6 NIV


This “accredited” or “accounted” righteous would at some point need to be paid; to be fulfilled.


Discussing the principle of faith will bring this to light.







JLB

 

[JLB]

I don't agree with your statement that you are declared righteous because you are righteous.

It is imputed righteousness; accredited righteousness.


JLB

 

[JLB]

True enough, but consider that this is in spirit only and not in the flesh. Now go out there and be ye Holy, even as He is Holy...but walk this out in your flesh. Pursue it in your flesh. Bringing your flesh into subjection to your spirit.

Amen.

Practicing righteousness as He did; as He is.


Just when I overcome one sinful habit, He shows me the next thing I get to repent of and see His character formed in me.


Thank God I can continue to change.



JLB

 

[Edward]

I don't agree with your statement that you are declared righteous because you are righteous. If that is so, then it is your righteousness. And it is not an imputed righteousness that you stand in. It is yours.

(1 John) is a difficult book. He is not writing as Paul does. He brings in stark contrasts that appear at times to contradict. All he says is true, but you really have to study the book. To just pull a verse out of (1 John) to prove a point could be misleading.

For example, John says in (1 John 3:9) "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin because he is born of God."

So if I see a Christian sin, then I know, according to this verse, that he is not a Christian. Because a Christian cannot sin. Right?

Quantrill

Wrong. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. You must remember that you are spirit and you are flesh. You who were dead in your sins did become 'born again' and you received new life within you, your spirit now lives! Your spirit does not sin but your flesh man may stumble and sin.

Why was King David called a man after God's own heart? He committed adultery with a man's wife and then murdered her husband to cover up the crime. It is because he repented his sin and always turned himself back unto the Lord, confessed his sin and asked forgiveness. He listened to his spirit and allowed his flesh to be governed by his spirit. Understand?

 

[Quantrill]

True enough, but consider that this is in spirit only and not in the flesh. Now go out there and be ye Holy, even as He is Holy...but walk this out in your flesh. Pursue it in your flesh. Bringing your flesh into subjection to your spirit.

Of course we certainly have a walk to walk.

Quantrill

 

[JLB]

The day you were born-again, you were as righteous as you will ever be.

Then why the call to pursue righteousness, if we have already arrived?


But you, O man of God, flee these things and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness.
1 Timothy 6:11


Peter says it this way —


But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 2 Peter 1:5-9




JLB

 

[Quantrill]

It is imputed righteousness; accredited righteousness.


JLB

I don't think your idea of imputed righteousness is the same as mine.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Wrong. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. You must remember that you are spirit and you are flesh. You who were dead in your sins did become 'born again' and you received new life within you, your spirit now lives! Your spirit does not sin but your flesh man may stumble and sin.

Why was King David called a man after God's own heart? He committed adultery with a man's wife and then murdered her husband to cover up the crime. It is because he repented his sin and always turned himself back unto the Lord, confessed his sin and asked forgiveness. He listened to his spirit and allowed his flesh to be governed by his spirit. Understand?

I don't think you understood what I said.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Then why the call to pursue righteousness, if we have already arrived?


Peter says it this way —


But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 2 Peter 1:5-9




JLB

Nothing wrong in pursuing righteousness. But your pursuit never adds to or takes away from the righteousness imputed to you.

Quantrill