It seems you do not understand Matthew 5:17-18 that Jesus has only fulfilled the righteousness of the law. Many have tried to explain this to you, but your eyes are not opened yet to the understanding.
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Is the Law of God dead? And if yes, how?
- Thread starter Rajesh Sahu
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I disagree. It seems that your eyes are not opened yet to the understanding. I have no desire to trade insults with you.
When you understand we can continue this discussion. But not until then. I believe God!
Ok, gotcha.
My answer here is that this is the whole point of Jesus' teaching. We are to internalize the external commandments, not just work our way around them, or even worse, write new commandments that in effect dismiss them or cancel them out like the Pharisees were doing (not saying you are doing that, but that they were).
You are guided by the Spirit of God who speaks to you the law written on your heart now. It is not some different law. It is the same law, only it is now written on your heart, not just on a page.
Truthfrees
Member
correct - none are/were ever righteous by the law - Matthew 4:4 - 2 Timothy 3:16 - the law is for doctrine/lifestyle reproof correction instruction - and to be great in the kingdom - Matthew 5:19 - and to be wise - Psalm 19:7-8
You answered your own question... The Corinthians were believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, yet they were caught up in all sorts of division and strife, as were the Jewish Christians James wrote to. Because despite being genuine believers who had tasted of the heavenly gift, they were not "loving" their brethren the way God wanted them to. So they were not following the Spirit but the Law.
The fruit of the Spirit described by Paul in Galatians 5:22-23, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law."
Truthfrees
Member
because righteousness is the gift of salvation - coming from God alone
lifestyle is why God gave His commands in the first place - on stone tablets - on the heart/mind - Matthew 4:4 - to live by - to be set apart from the bad lifestyle of the non-believers - to give glory to God - to prove to all people for all time that God alone is holy and worthy of obedience/worship
Gotcha? Very Christian!! Bye!!!
Truthfrees
Member
because Hebrews 8:10 and Hebrews 10:16 says the new covenant is God writing His laws on heart and mind - so it is either God who gets the credit or self - and self is flesh
No they weren't! Lol. Forgive my laughter here. Some people take offense at it, but I'm just enjoying the conversation.
Yes they were not obeying the Spirit, but their motivation for doing so was not to keep the law instead. In fact, James defended the law in his letter by showing them how they were breaking it:
11 Do not speak evil of one another, brethren. He who speaks evil of a brother and judges his brother, speaks evil of the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. 12 There is one Lawgiver who is able to save and to destroy. Who are you to judge another? (James 4:11-12)
You see here? He is appealing to them to obey the Spirit by keeping the law.
Well, it appears I lost him...
I wasn't trying to offend you by anything I said, Jaybo. I was just discussing scripture with you.
So we disagee. So what? Is that any reason to get upset?
Again, why are you twisting my words??
Truthfrees
Member
i'm not twisting your words - just pointing out flesh vs Spirit is what paul was really talking about - you seem to think paul says God's Holy Spirit vs God's Holy Laws
why can't you admit God's laws are holy and now written on the heart and mind?
Because I'm stupid. Satisfied??
Truthfrees
Member
no - not at all - the only reason i talk to you is because you aren't stupid - apologies if i worded things in an offensive way -
i really do want to understand why the new covenant says God's laws are NOW written on heart and mind and that truth gets ignored?
Agreed.
Hardly different.
If one keeps one law, (out side the big nine), they are committed to all of them.
As it is written..."For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them." (Gal 3:10)
Thanks be to God that the death of the flesh, rebirth, a new-divine nature, and the Spirit of God within us allows us to reject all temptation so we need never sin again.
I sincerely doubt, based on what you've written so far, that you really do want to understand why the new covenant says God's laws are NOW written on heart and mind and that truth gets ignored (your words). The last phrase clearly shows your lack of understanding!
You always have to interpret verses in light of the context in which they are found. That is what is so complicated when discussing what parts of "the law" are being discussed. But Paul points out clearly what parts of it he is discussing in Galatians:
2 Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and also took Titus with me. 2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated to them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to those who were of reputation, lest by any means I might run, or had run, in vain. 3 Yet not even Titus who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised. (see also verses 6-10).
Then he speaks of the covenant they had through Abraham, which again came through circumcision.
15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. 16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise. (Galatians 3:15-18)
Then we have this in Chapter 4:
8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods. 9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly principles, to which you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. (Galatians 4:8-10)
Now what days and months and seasons and years is he referring to here? They were Judaizing, and coming under the sway of false teachers saying they should keep the Jewish days and months and years, i.e. the Sabbaths, new moons, festivals, and years of Jubilee, not after a spiritual manner which would have been acceptable but after the strictness of the Jews, even though they were Gentiles. That they were Judaizing is obvious enough from 4:21, where he says, "Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?"
So the "works of the law" he was saying they would be under a curse from if they placed themselves in bondgage to them were the following:
1. Circumcision (Galatians 2:1-10, and see also Galatians 5:1-6 where he again repeats it even more strongly), and
2. Observing the Jewish Holy Days (Galatians 4:8-10).
Nowhere in this letter does Paul denounce or encourage them to renounce the greatest two commandments of the Old Testament upon which the law and the prophets were based: To love the Lord their God with their whole heart, mind, soul and strength, and to love their neighbors as themselves. In fact, he specifically sanctions the continued keeping of the latter in Galatians 5:14:
11 Brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why do I still suffer persecution? Then the offense of the cross has ceased. 12 I could wish that those who trouble you would even cut themselves off! 13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” (Galatians 5:11-14)
Be careful about quoting verses out of their context. He is not talking about Jewish law in its entirety there. He is talking about those parts of the law that were now rendered obsolete through the coming of Christ.
It's unfortunate that you don't understand what the word "fulfill" means. It means bring to completion, but your eyes are not opened yet to the understanding.
I'm done discussing this with you. Have a great evening.
Jaybo, your interpretation is a contradiction of the internal context of the verse itself:
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
If it was "fulfilled" by Christ before heaven and earth passed away (and they have not yet), this would make Christ a liar, and we both know that cannot be the case. So it has to mean something different that the way you are interpreting it.
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