Not if you kill the old man and are reborn from God's seed !
It is written..."We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1 John 5:18)
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
God's Great Free Gift of Salvation for Everyone
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
It is written..."We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1 John 5:18)
You "will be", not "you are".
It is written..."Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." (Rom 5:9)
That blood is applied at our "immersion" into His death and burial.
Robert Pate
Member
Our old Adamic nature can be subdued but it cannot be inhilated. Paul confessed that he was a sinner, 1 Timothy 1:15 also Romans 7:7-25. Born again Christians will not deliberately sin, but will confess that they are sinners, 1 John 1:8.
I agree with your last sentence.
Some make believe they're saved for one reason or another.
But this does not mean that everyone that falls away never was saved.
How would you explain
Colossians 1:21-23
21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.
We don't get saved one day and then MAYBE return to a life of sin
and think that we can still be saved.
Jesus said that we must remain in Him and He in us in order to remain
attached to the fine. If we're not attached, we no longer are fed by the vine.
John 15:1-2
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away;
John 15:5-6
5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
Ephesians 1:13
13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
If you believe that the above means that once we are saved we are sealed forever, then the NT has many conflicting verses.
Due to the following which state that we are NOT sealed forever.
And which necessarily means that this sealing means something else.
1 Timothy 4:1 We can depart from the faith.
Hebrews 6:4-6 Some that were enlightened and tasted the heavenly gift and have shared in the Holy Spirit, have fallen away.
2 Corinthians 11:3 Our thoughts can be led astray from a pure and sincere devotion to Christ.
Revelation 2:4-5 Some had abandoned their first love---they have fallen.
Hebrews 3:12-19 It is possible to fall away from the living God.
2 Peter 2:20-22 We can AGAIN become entangled in the defileness of the world.
Romans 11:19-22 Branches were broken off because of unbelief.
and many more.
So what do we do about this discrepancy and conflict within the NT?
It sure can be killed, and in fact destroyed. (Rom 6:6, Gal 5:24)
It is written..."We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1 John 5:18)
How do you know this? Or are you just making an unfounded judgement?
Robert Pate
Member
There are varying degrees of faith in Christ. In the parable of the Sower not all of the seed fell on good ground. The seed that fell on the good ground were the born-again Christians that were sealed with the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13. There is nothing that can separate those from the love of God that is in Jesus Christ, Romans 8:35-39.
Robert Pate
Member
There are many carnal Christians that have not been born again by the Gospel, 1 Peter 1:23, they are counterfeits.
Robert Pate
Member
Paul struggled with sin because he was a sinner. See Romans 7:7-25.
The warnings are given to believers. Their future is dependent on remaining faithful. Remember what happened to God's chosen people. They are still outside the Kingdom of God. No way would backsliders be warned against falling away. They are already goners.
In whom ye also trusted, after that, ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. (Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV)
The Spirit is called the Spirit of the promise (future tense). He is often promised in the Old Testament but withdrawn from His own people due to their disobedience. (Isa_32:15; Eze_36:20; Joe_3:1, etc.)
Until the spirit be poured upon us from on high, and the wilderness be a fruitful field, and the fruitful field be counted for a forest. (Isaiah 32:15)
Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it: And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them. (Ezekiel 36:18-19)
For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, (Joel 3:1)
Nevertheless, the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. (2 Timothy 2:19)
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)
The promise is conditional and dependent on our faithfulness, right living and obedience. Hence the warnings about backsliding or turning away.
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Robert Pate
Member
Obedience to Christ and his Gospel are evidence that one has been born again and is a genuine Christian. However, there are many that are still immature and are still growing in the faith.
He was in the narrative he presented describing his past in the flesh.
Rom 7:5 says..."For when we were in the flesh..."
You don't seem to put enough stock in rebirth from God's seed.
Growing in the faith is good. God looks on the heart, pride is not liked and He knows our innermost thoughts from our outward appearance. God is unchanging but we are not and there is no room in the Kingdom of Heaven for the backslider. Out of all the Israilites who left Egypt, only three entered the promised land despite them being God's chosen people, the elect of God. As for the rest who did not make it, their end is worse than their beginning.
They did what you say we can do and look at them. Are you going to continue to say that?
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Robert Pate
Member
That is not true. We are always in the flesh. We will be in the flesh until the day that we die.
Robert Pate
Member
Those that did not enter the promised land were under God's wrath, Hebrews 4:3. They were unbelievers, Hebrews 3:19.
Robert Pate
Member
The Holy Spirit does not make one holy. God wants us to be part of the human race so that we can reach others with the Gospel. Holiness people are separationist. They are so holy that they cannot mingle with lost sinners. Remember, Jesus ate with sinners, a Jewish no, no. Go have a beer with a lost sinner and tell him about Jesus.
Moses was one of those who did not enter the Promised Land. Are you saying he, his brother and the Levite Priests did not believe in the one they offered sacrifices to daily? Who do you think they believed held back the water, fed them with manor from heaven and guided them by day and night.
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Scripture shows you don't have enough information on the topic.
First off, not every use of the word "flesh" defines skin and bones.
Often it describes the "fleshly mindedness" of the old, unconverted man.
For instance..."There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Rom 8:1)
We all have skin and bones, but what is it we "walk after"? The things of this world, or the things of God?
One is of the flesh/world, while the other is of God/heaven.
"That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit." (Rom 8:4-5), This is another example of fleshly mindedness/worldly thinking juxtaposed with Godliness/Godly thinking thinking.
"So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Rom 8:8-9)
Again, Paul isn't writing of skin and bones, but about the goals in the mind of the Godly oriented converted.
So, back to Rom 7..."For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death." (Rom 7:5)
This is a reference to his past, (and ours, if we are now in Christ), walking after the things of this world and not after God.
"For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not." (Rom 7:18)
Paul's body is not the topic.
His mind, and what it was once oriented after, is the topic.
"I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." Rom 7:25)
This is the summation of Paul's Rom 7 experiences, first as a Pharisee unsuccessfully trying to satisfy God with Law keeping, and then as a new man free of the "fleshly" oriented world.
In the "flesh" he couldn't successfully serve God.
The new Paul, raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, (Rom 6:4), can successfully serve the Law of God.
I sometimes wish the KJV would have said "skin and bones" instead of "flesh" so there wouldn't be such confusion.