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God's Great Free Gift of Salvation for Everyone

Robert Pate said:
The old Adam is alive and well, you just don't want to recognize him. If you don't recognize him, you are deceiving yourself. The old Adam has not passed away. You will have to deal with him until you die or Jesus returns. If you are indwelt with the Holy Spirit you will struggle with sin, Romans chapter 7.
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How come you don't believe Romans 6:6?
It is written..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
Why do you insist, contrary to scripture, the old man is still alive?

How come you don't believe 2 Cor 5:17?
It is written..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
Why do you insist that some of the old creature still remains?
 
Hopeful said:
I agree totally, though your scrip' is out of context.
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I agree that my scripture seems to be out of context.
I had an idea when I wrote it, but then I forgot.
I believe it had to do with the fact that we're washed at baptism, and thus we don't need to
be fully washed again (as Jesus told Peter at the washing of the feet in John), but only the feet.
I understand this to mean when we sin - I know you'll disagree.

Hopeful said:
Yes, John did say that, and Jesus does provide the gift of the Holy Ghost, and will bring the fire on the last day.

As 1 John 5:8 makes clear, the water and blood agree in one.
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I associate water with baptism
and blood with the cross.
I'm not really sure how you understand this to be "in one".
(1 John 5:8, your verse).

Hopeful said:
They are one and the same at our water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
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Ditto as above.

Hopeful said:
I agree with your entire post, but also believe that our belief of the gospel will lead us immediately to all the other things to be "believed".
Like repenting from sin, and getting baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
And ultimately, enduring faithfully until the end.
And dozens of other points.

Thank you for participating.
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I agree with your last paragraph.
Baptism is indeed for the remission of past sins.

It would be nice if you explained better how you understand 1 John 5:8...
the 3 witnesses.
Thanks.
 
Hopeful said:
How come you don't believe Romans 6:6?
It is written..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
Why do you insist, contrary to scripture, the old man is still alive?

How come you don't believe 2 Cor 5:17?
It is written..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
Why do you insist that some of the old creature still remains?
Click to expand...
Spiritually, we are new creations in Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:17. Spiritually, we are complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

Physically, "We are the chief of sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15. We only have the first fruits or the down payment of the Holy Spirit and are still in our unredeemed Adamic bodies, Romans 8:23.

The old creature still remains because we struggle with him every day, Galatians 5:17.
 
Robert Pate said:
Spiritually, we are new creations in Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:17. Spiritually, we are complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

Physically, "We are the chief of sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15. We only have the first fruits or the down payment of the Holy Spirit and are still in our unredeemed Adamic bodies, Romans 8:23.

The old creature still remains because we struggle with him every day, Galatians 5:17.
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I agree with the above, but didn't Christ redeem the human race?
Haven't we been bought back from satan?
 
wondering said:
I agree with the above, but didn't Christ redeem the human race?
Haven't we been bought back from satan?
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Spiritually, we have been raised up with Christ and have been made to sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, Ephesians 2:6. Physically, we are still here on the sinful planet in our unredeemed Adamic bodies, Romans 8:23.
 
Robert Pate said:
Spiritually, we have been raised up with Christ and have been made to sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, Ephesians 2:6. Physically, we are still here on the sinful planet in our unredeemed Adamic bodies, Romans 8:23.
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OK,
Our bodies are indeed still unredeemed.
It's our spiritual self that has been bought back from satan.
(at least in the ransom theory of atonement).
 
wondering said:
OK,
Our bodies are indeed still unredeemed.
It's our spiritual self that has been bought back from satan.
(at least in the ransom theory of atonement).
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The spiritual self is our soul that has been raised up together and made to sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, Ephesians 2:6. We are in Christ and Christ is in heaven, Colossians 2:10.
 
Robert Pate said:
The spiritual self is our soul that has been raised up together and made to sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, Ephesians 2:6. We are in Christ and Christ is in heaven, Colossians 2:10.
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You're a dichotomist.
Fine.
For those reading along, I would like
To state that the soul and the spirit are different.
You believe the spirit is a part of the soul, which is ok, I believe the soul and spirit are separate.

As long as we understand that the soul and spirit are different...
 
wondering said:
You're a dichotomist.
Fine.
For those reading along, I would like
To state that the soul and the spirit are different.
You believe the spirit is a part of the soul, which is ok, I believe the soul and spirit are separate.

As long as we understand that the soul and spirit are different...
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The soul is the spiritual part of man, they are not separate. When we die the soul and the Spirit die together not separately.
 
wondering said:
Great question.

I guess our body would be the car...with all the pertinent parts that make it run.
Our soul would be the steering wheel.

Nothing happens unless our soul is involved.
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Correcto'
Which is why I can't understand the folks who think they are still sinners, or unsanctified, just because they have a body.
The body is just the carrying case for our new mind.
 
Hopeful said:
Correcto'
Which is why I can't understand the folks who think they are still sinners, or unsanctified, just because they have a body.
The body is just the carrying case for our new mind.
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The body is guided by our brain.
We can't walk unless our brain tells our legs to move.

Something in our brain is CAUSING the movement. Science is currently trying to understand what the conscious is.

So in this body of ours is a soul and a spirit.
I would hope that everybody knows the difference.

I think the problem is that many call the sinful nature man is born with the body, or the flesh.

Check out Gal 5:24.
But there are verses that state that the flesh sins.

On cell, can't post verses right now...
 
Robert Pate said:
Man is body, soul and spirit.

The body is our physical being.
The soul is our is moral being.
The spirit is what evolves from the physical and the moral being.
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This is too far off topic and so this will be my last post.
The Body is our physical part which his visible.
Our Soul is not visible and comprises our morality, our personality, our will, our reason, conscience and the like.
Our Spirit is that part of us that is in tune with God and that responds to the call of God.
Our spirit influences the soul since the soul contains morality.

Some believe the spirit is part of the soul. That is dicototomy.
What I believe is trichotomy.

The following images is how I understand the trichotomy to be:
1 thes 5:23


circle-spirit-soul-and-body
 
wondering said:
The body is guided by our brain.
We can't walk unless our brain tells our legs to move.

Something in our brain is CAUSING the movement. Science is currently trying to understand what the conscious is.

So in this body of ours is a soul and a spirit.
I would hope that everybody knows the difference.

I think the problem is that many call the sinful nature man is born with the body, or the flesh.

Check out Gal 5:24.
But there are verses that state that the flesh sins.

On cell, can't post verses right now...
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Agreed.
Sometimes I wish the writers in the bible had used the expression "skin and bones" to differentiate the "flesh"ly mindedness of the lost from the vessel we walk in.
Paul once noted that while we still walked in the flesh, (skin and bones), we didn't war after the flesh, (fleshly oriented mindedness/goals). (2 Cor 10:3)
 
Hopeful said:
Agreed.
Sometimes I wish the writers in the bible had used the expression "skin and bones" to differentiate the "flesh"ly mindedness of the lost from the vessel we walk in.
Paul once noted that while we still walked in the flesh, (skin and bones), we didn't war after the flesh, (fleshly oriented mindedness/goals). (2 Cor 10:3)
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Is there a difference between walking IN THE FLESH 2 Cor 10:3
and walking AFTER THE FLESH?

I was reading some commentary and I can't tell.
It seems the same to me.

2 Corinthians 10:3 Commentaries: For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh,

biblehub.com
 
wondering said:
Is there a difference between walking IN THE FLESH 2 Cor 10:3
and walking AFTER THE FLESH?
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Oh yeah !
Again we must differentiate between the skin and bones, (that which surrounds our innards), from the fleshly minded pursuits of the unclean.
One is a vessel and the other is an orientation.
wondering said:
I was reading some commentary and I can't tell.
It seems the same to me.

2 Corinthians 10:3 Commentaries: For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh,

biblehub.com
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I checked out your source, and recommend tossing it out.
What a bunch of mumbo-jumbo.

"My Commentary" of 2 Cor 10:3...Walk in the new vessel of the reborn, and don't pursue the worldly oriented things of the unbelievers.
Be Spiritually instead of mortally minded. :bible
 
Hopeful said:
Oh yeah !
Again we must differentiate between the skin and bones, (that which surrounds our innards), from the fleshly minded pursuits of the unclean.
One is a vessel and the other is an orientation.
Click to expand...

Agreed.
IOW, the sinful nature is what makes the physical body sin.

Since the spirit affects the soul, this would also include thoughts that could be sinful.
I mean, that the spirit would be helpful to us in NOT having sinful thoughts - whatever they might be.
The spirit has a good effect on our soul part.

Hopeful said:
I checked out your source, and recommend tossing it out.
What a bunch of mumbo-jumbo.
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That's not my source...
But after I've tried a few different versions and am not satisfied,
I do go to commentaries. Of course each has its own idea so they must be used carefully.
I find them helpful at time - and at times they sound like mumbo jumbo (like in this case).

Hopeful said:
"My Commentary" of 2 Cor 10:3...Walk in the new vessel of the reborn, and don't pursue the worldly oriented things of the unbelievers.
Be Spiritually instead of mortally minded. :bible
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YOUR commentary is a theme that runs throughout the NT.
 
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