God's Great Free Gift of Salvation for Everyone

[Hopeful]

The Holy Spirit does not make one holy.

It is the holy who have been given the gift of the Holy Ghost.
He will not reside in a polluted temple.

God wants us to be part of the human race so that we can reach others with the Gospel.

Agreed.

Holiness people are separationist. They are so holy that they cannot mingle with lost sinners. Remember, Jesus ate with sinners, a Jewish no, no. Go have a beer with a lost sinner and tell him about Jesus.

We have different ideas on "holy".
As Jesus, holy as God is holy, walked with and for the sinners, so do we.
I won't however, take part in unholy pastimes with them.

 

[Hopeful]

Moses was one of those who did not enter the Promised Land. Are you saying he, his brother and the Levite Priests did not believe in the one they offered sacrifices to daily? Who do you think they believed held back the water, fed them with manor from heaven and guided them by day and night.
.

Doubts, and outright disbelief crept in, and it cost Moses and the entire generation of those who fled Egypt.
They may have recovered themselves before they died, but by then it was too late.
One sin cost Adam and Eve the garden of paradise, and one sin cost Moses the promised land.
Will it be any different for us?

 

[Cooper]

Doubts, and outright disbelief crept in, and it cost Moses and the entire generation of those who fled Egypt.
They may have recovered themselves before they died, but by then it was too late.
One sin cost Adam and Eve the garden of paradise, and one sin cost Moses the promised land.
Will it be any different for us?

It seems similar to the present day. How about you?
.

 

[Cooper]

It seems similar to the present day. How about you?
.

Does that mean there will not be many in the promised land we call heaven, lost for similar reasons?
.

 

[Robert Pate]

It is the holy who have been given the gift of the Holy Ghost.
He will not reside in a polluted temple.

Agreed.

We have different ideas on "holy".
As Jesus, holy as God is holy, walked with and for the sinners, so do we.
I won't however, take part in unholy pastimes with them.

The condition for receiving the Holy Spirit is that God must you "In Christ". It has nothing to do with what you do, Galatians 3:2-5.

 

[Hopeful]

It seems similar to the present day. How about you?
.

I don't know what you are thinking of relevant to "the present day".
As for me, I know that God has provided everything I will need to endure faithfully until the day of judgement.
Stuff like 1 Cor 10:13..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
Thanks be to God !

 

[Hopeful]

Does that mean there will not be many in the promised land we call heaven, lost for similar reasons?
.

If the pattern holds true, Jesus' words that few would be saved will be the final result. (Matt 7:14)

 

[Hopeful]

The condition for receiving the Holy Spirit is that God must you "In Christ". It has nothing to do with what you do, Galatians 3:2-5.

It has lots "to do with me".
Just as Peter said "Repent, and and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
I thank God for giving me the chance to obey.

 

[Robert Pate]

It has lots "to do with me".
Just as Peter said "Repent, and and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
I thank God for giving me the chance to obey.

But you don't obey. You do not have a righteousness that God will accept and is why you need a savior.

 

[Hopeful]

But you don't obey. You do not have a righteousness that God will accept and is why you need a savior.

My Savior provided my righteousness when I died with Him and was raised with Him to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-7)
It is written..."But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: ..." (Rom 3:21-22)
As a believer, His gifts are available to me, including His righteousness.
His righteousness is available to you too.

 

[Robert Pate]

My Savior provided my righteousness when I died with Him and was raised with Him to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-7)
It is written..."But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: ..." (Rom 3:21-22)
As a believer, His gifts are available to me, including His righteousness.
His righteousness is available to you too.

You are confusing the two separate aspects of Christianity.

Spiritually, We are perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. God sees all that are trusting in Christ as perfect and complete "In Christ".

Physically, We are still here on this sinful planet in our unredeemed Adamic bodies, Romans 8:23. and are sinners.

The righteousness of Christ is to our account. We don't have it yet, because we are sinners. It has been reserved for us in heaven, 1 Peter 1:4.

 

[Hopeful]

You are confusing the two separate aspects of Christianity.

Spiritually, We are perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. God sees all that are trusting in Christ as perfect and complete "In Christ".

Physically, We are still here on this sinful planet in our unredeemed Adamic bodies, Romans 8:23. and are sinners.

I call that "The Split Personality Doctrine".
It tries to make a man two different men.
One is holy, while the other is still walking after the supposedly dead fleshly mind.
It is just another doctrine that accommodates sin.

The righteousness of Christ is to our account.

It is the result of our death, burial, and resurrection with Christ, (Rom 6:3-7), and is called the divine nature.
If God gives us righteousness, why do so many resist it?
Because they don't want to be righteous.

We don't have it yet, because we are sinners. It has been reserved for us in heaven, 1 Peter 1:4.

I quit being a sinner when I repented of sin.
Repentance from sin is available to you too.

 

[Robert Pate]

I call that "The Split Personality Doctrine".
It tries to make a man two different men.
One is holy, while the other is still walking after the supposedly dead fleshly mind.
It is just another doctrine that accommodates sin.

It is the result of our death, burial, and resurrection with Christ, (Rom 6:3-7), and is called the divine nature.
If God gives us righteousness, why do so many resist it?
Because they don't want to be righteous.

I quit being a sinner when I repented of sin.
Repentance from sin is available to you too.

Go look in the mirror and you will see a person that has been born after Adam. Your first father was Adam. You have his blood coursing through your veins. Unfortunately, you have inherited his sinful nature, Romans 5:12. It is not your fault that you have the corrupted nature of Adam, Its Adam's fault.

However, it's your fault if you don't call on Christ to save you, Romans 10:13. You will have to live with your unredeemed Adamic nature, Romans 8:23, until you die or Jesus returns.

Paul said, "For this corruptible (you) must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality" 1 Corinthians 15:53.

 

[GodsGrace]

You "will be", not "you are".
It is written..."Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." (Rom 5:9)
That blood is applied at our "immersion" into His death and burial.

My last comment will be this...I don't like to debate forever about something that is apparent...

Baptism is regenerative...it makes us into a new creature.
It makes the Holy Spirit able to dwell within us since we are totally washed, as Jesus
told the Apostels in
John 13:9-10
9Simon Peter said to Him, “Lord, then wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head.”
10Jesus said to him, “He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean,,,

John the Baptist said that the One that came after him would baptize with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Matthew 3:11

We are surely saved by the blood of Jesus.
We are baptized by water for the washing and regeneration.
Christ in our heart makes us spiritually alive from the death of Adam's sin.
Baptism declares us a child of God and with the help of the Holy Spirit allows us to walk with God.

Romans 1:16-17 states that believing the gospel is our salvation.
16For I am not ashamed of this Good News about Christ. It is the power of God at work, saving everyone who believes—the Jew first and also the Gentile.
17This Good News tells us how God makes us right in his sight. This is accomplished from start to finish by faith. As the Scriptures say, “It is through faith that a righteous person has life.”


So we attain life by believing.
And we attain the power of the Holy Spirit by baptism.

I'm saying that Jesus ordered to be baptized, and we must.
But if a believer died before baptism, I can find no biblical evidence that they would be lost.

I would also remind you that before the bible was written, or for many that did not have access to it,
people were still saved that knew nothing about baptism.

 

[GodsGrace]

There are varying degrees of faith in Christ. In the parable of the Sower not all of the seed fell on good ground. The seed that fell on the good ground were the born-again Christians that were sealed with the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13. There is nothing that can separate those from the love of God that is in Jesus Christ, Romans 8:35-39.

This is what happens on these forums.

I post some verses,,,

you ignore them and the idea of the post,

and send your own verses.

How about answering post 105?
I think it's a very important question that I'm asking.
I expected a serious reply.

 

[Hopeful]

Go look in the mirror and you will see a person that has been born after Adam. Your first father was Adam. You have his blood coursing through your veins. Unfortunately, you have inherited his sinful nature, Romans 5:12. It is not your fault that you have the corrupted nature of Adam, Its Adam's fault.

When I look in a mirror, I see the vessel of a man killed and buried with Christ, and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-4)
The old me was crucified with Christ, with the vile affections and lusts. (Rom 6:6, Gal 5:24)

However, it's your fault if you don't call on Christ to save you, Romans 10:13. You will have to live with your unredeemed Adamic nature, Romans 8:23, until you die or Jesus returns.

I did already die, with Christ, at my "immersion" into His death. (Rom 6:4)
I am a new creature now, and the old Adamic nature is counted among the "all things" "passed away" in 2 Cor 5:17.
It is written..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

Paul said, "For this corruptible (you) must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality" 1 Corinthians 15:53.

There is a difference between "me" and this "vessel".
My vessel continues to age and deteriorate, as it is corruptible, but the new me inside it will never be corrupted or die.
Thanks be to God !

 

[Hopeful]

My last comment will be this...I don't like to debate forever about something that is apparent...

Baptism is regenerative...it makes us into a new creature.
It makes the Holy Spirit able to dwell within us since we are totally washed, as Jesus
told the Apostels in
John 13:9-10
9Simon Peter said to Him, “Lord, then wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head.”
10Jesus said to him, “He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean,,,

I agree totally, though your scrip' is out of context.

John the Baptist said that the One that came after him would baptize with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Matthew 3:11

Yes, John did say that, and Jesus does provide the gift of the Holy Ghost, and will bring the fire on the last day.

We are surely saved by the blood of Jesus.
We are baptized by water for the washing and regeneration.
Christ in our heart makes us spiritually alive from the death of Adam's sin.
Baptism declares us a child of God and with the help of the Holy Spirit allows us to walk with God.

As 1 John 5:8 makes clear, the water and blood agree in one.
They are one and the same at our water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

Romans 1:16-17 states that believing the gospel is our salvation.
16For I am not ashamed of this Good News about Christ. It is the power of God at work, saving everyone who believes—the Jew first and also the Gentile.
17This Good News tells us how God makes us right in his sight. This is accomplished from start to finish by faith. As the Scriptures say, “It is through faith that a righteous person has life.”
So we attain life by believing.
And we attain the power of the Holy Spirit by baptism.
I'm saying that Jesus ordered to be baptized, and we must.
But if a believer died before baptism, I can find no biblical evidence that they would be lost.
I would also remind you that before the bible was written, or for many that did not have access to it,
people were still saved that knew nothing about baptism.

I agree with your entire post, but also believe that our belief of the gospel will lead us immediately to all the other things to be "believed".
Like repenting from sin, and getting baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
And ultimately, enduring faithfully until the end.
And dozens of other points.

Thank you for participating.

 

[Robert Pate]

It is the holy who have been given the gift of the Holy Ghost.
He will not reside in a polluted temple.

Agreed.

We have different ideas on "holy".
As Jesus, holy as God is holy, walked with and for the sinners, so do we.
I won't however, take part in unholy pastimes with them.

It appears to me that you are so holy that you are of no earthly good.

God does not see his people as polluted temples when they sin. God sees his people as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. This gives us the freedom to become witnesses for Christ. You think that if you sin you will become a polluted temple? You have no idea of how you have been justified, sanctified and redeemed.

 

[Robert Pate]

When I look in a mirror, I see the vessel of a man killed and buried with Christ, and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-4)
The old me was crucified with Christ, with the vile affections and lusts. (Rom 6:6, Gal 5:24)

I did already die, with Christ, at my "immersion" into His death. (Rom 6:4)
I am a new creature now, and the old Adamic nature is counted among the "all things" "passed away" in 2 Cor 5:17.
It is written..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

There is a difference between "me" and this "vessel".
My vessel continues to age and deteriorate, as it is corruptible, but the new me inside it will never be corrupted or die.
Thanks be to God !

The old Adam is alive and well, you just don't want to recognize him. If you don't recognize him, you are deceiving yourself. The old Adam has not passed away. You will have to deal with him until you die or Jesus returns. If you are indwelt with the Holy Spirit you will struggle with sin, Romans chapter 7.

 

[Hopeful]

It appears to me that you are so holy that you are of no earthly good.

As though that were actually possible.

God does not see his people as polluted temples when they sin.

You are correct.
As sinners are not His people.

God sees his people as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

Correct again, as there is no sin in Christ, and we cannot introduce sin into Him.
Only the obedient reside in Him.

This gives us the freedom to become witnesses for Christ. You think that if you sin you will become a polluted temple? You have no idea of how you have been justified, sanctified and redeemed.

I do indeed know how I was justified, sanctified, and redeemed, and all are dependent on my permanent turn from sin.
A false repentance from sin receives no reward.
Those walking in darkness can't say they have fellowship with God. (1 John 1:6)