The law has no claim upon those for whom Christ died. The curse spent itself on our Redeemer. We are dead to the law. We are righteous, justified, guiltless, innocent in Christ Those Christ died for are dead to the law Rom 7:4 10
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Jesus died a covenant death forThen "them" would be the whole world according to John 3:16 that will believe in Him as He died for the whole world, not just a few He choices to be saved.
Ezk34 God described His action in seeking and saving His sheep who have been Scattered.Please show me the scripture that Jesus only died for His own. If they were already His own then there would have been no need for His death on the cross.
God is indeed willing that a multitude perishyour limiting the power of God if we are kept by the power of God then the power of God will save the whosoever .God does not desire any to perish but ALL come to repentance. i realize in being trained in reformed /Calvinism. you will redefine the word ALL . why would God send his only Son to the cross for just limited people? do you limit God power?
The children of God are scattered worldwide as in John 11:49 -52.Christ's death and resurrection, His atonement, the ransom paid and the propitiary death was for EVERYONE that ever lived
beginning with Adam and through until the end of this world.
Whoever is saved, beginning in the O.T. BEFORE Christ, and thru all time, is saved due to Christ paying the ransom needed to buy us back from
satan, which is why we say that sin has died.
1 John 2:2 tells us that Jesus died not only for "our sins" (the saved at that moment) but for the sins of the whole world.
2and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
We all know that "world" could have different meanings but in this case it means everyone in the world.
How do YOU understand 1 John 2:2?
What does it mean to you that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world?
In Hebrews 2 the everyone is explained throughout the passage where he calls of the church the sanctified and finally in verse 16 doesn't say he took on the seed of Adam and says he took on the seed of Abraham that is the elect.just how do you come to this concussion ? i limit nothing scripture tells us he tasted death for everyone But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone. i think you might ought to reword that...fact remains you dont define the word ALL for everyone you are taught only th elect. much like the picking of players for a ball game at recess . all the good players are chose the rest are bench warmers
He saves them to the Uttermost who come to God by Him as mediator and surety .yes it is he is able to save to the utter most your problem is who can be saved i am more than understanding theology of the reformed /Calvinist
As everyone can plainly see by your lack of scripture, and logical fallacy, your perspective is not biblical.
Again, here is what the scriptures plainly states:
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16
This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance. For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. These things command and teach.
1 Timothy 4:9-11
Now, if you believe that God sent His Son to die only for His sheep, then please present the scripture that states this.
If you don’t have a scripture that says Jesus Christ died for only His sheep, then please consider repenting of promoting false doctrine in this community.
JLB
The truth of Calvinism is just a biblical gospel fully understood.Sometimes a person will say SILLY to avoid saying SOMETHING ELSE!!
Honestly FF, Calvinism makes no sense.
I believe you're true what you said you don't understand how they come to these truths . You are set to oppose whatever's presented you're not even trying to understand it if you try and understand it you might begin to put some of the puzzle pieces togetherThis is one of the problems.
Persons to to a reformed church and some pastors do not say the whole truth and
everything sounds so good.
The Westminster Confession of Faith is a lot softer than Calvin's Institutes.
If a person would read the Institutes (all 1,000 pages?!) I don't even understand why
anyone would want to be of the reformed faith. It is contrary to everything taught in the N.T.
We can have different opinions on doctrine.
Usually, on these threads, a person will explain why he believes as he does.
Most times I could understand how they would come to that conclusion.
In the case of the reformed I never understand how they could understand their
faith as they do.
They change the character of God. This goes beyond understanding a verse in a
different way.
Jn 10:26 teaches why they did not believe....they were not HIS SHEEP. You seem to be putting the cart before the horse John 6:37 -44 is very clear all that the Father gives to Jesus shall come to him if they aren't given they're not coming.The sheep are those who heard their masters voice and follow Him. Before that they were no different than the goats who close their ears to the masters voice and go off on their own.
Jesus paid a debt He did not owe so that by God's grace through His sacrifice we can come to Him as He draws us as we hear the voice of our master calling us to repentance for by His blood made atonement for all (not a limited atonement) who will draw unto Him and receive God's free gift of grace for by which we are saved after coming to Christ.
In your effort to oppose the grace of God you seem to be leaning towards a works based salvation salvation by works is not the gospel(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.” Romans 9:11-13
Again, as you can plainly see, the context continues to show the election is not about whom God has chosen to save, but the election is according to the purpose of whom God chose to be the lineage of the Messiah.
- Election for purpose, not election for salvation.
Esau was not chosen for the purpose of bringing Christ into the world, Jacob was, even though Jacob was a deceiver, God foresaw that Esau was not fit for His purpose even though the “tradition” of that culture was to allow the older to have the birthright. God showing it’s according to the purpose of His will and not according to our natural understanding or traditions, which Paul was dealing with. Paul understood the Jewish mindset that the Jews believed they were God’s chosen people and were automatically saved (blessed) because the were the natural offspring of Abraham.
Furthermore, the word hate has a broader meaning in Hebrew thought than what the post modern definition of the word has today in our culture. That’s why contextually it must be determined what the writer means by this word.
If the Lord says we must hate our father and mother and family if we are to be His disciples, does that mean we are to “literally” in the common way we understand the hate today, hate our father and mother and family, or does that mean we are to prefer to follow Jesus and His teachings even if our family and culture do not believe?
Here is who Jesus considers as His family —
And it was told Him by some, who said, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see You.”
But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.”
Luke 8:20-21
Teaching people that they are chosen by God for salvation and can live whatever way the desire and will still be saved is a dangerous and unbiblical concept that has no place in Christian communities.
You seem to have a habit of lifting scriptures out of their context and bending them to fit your predetermined theology.
This is seen in your style of stating your opinion, then tagging your opinion with a scripture reference, all the while not actual posting the scripture and context for us to read and study.
The entire book of Romans is all about the obedience of faith, which is hearing God’s word and doing it; obeying it.
Those who obey God will be saved.
Those who disobey God will not be saved.
Ths will be seen on the Day of Judgement when we all will stand before our Lord to give account of what we did with the life He gave us, whether good or evil.
Whether you are a Jew or Gentile...
- Those who obey the truth will be receive eternal life.
- Those who obey unrighteousness will receive damnation.
God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8
- eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
- but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath
JLB
You and the others have proven no such thing at all in fact you have opposed the truth of scripture quite often.What influences you and Fastfredy0 is that of man made religion of the Reformed ideas of Calvinism theology of mans doctrine that began in the 16th century that teaches limited atonement, which is not taught in the Bible. Many of us have proven this theology to be nothing more than heretical teaching by trying to show the both of you in scripture, but you have been so doctrinated by these ideas and theologies that you can not see the truth brought before you. You have every right to believe what you want, but when it comes to adding to or taking away from scripture God gave a warning for this in Rev 22:18, 19.
There is not one verse that proves or suggest that free will exists. Free will is a false philosophical concept that people try to foist upon the scripture. Men are self willed but their will is bound by the nature so people go to a false philosophical concept as the default position to avoid the truth of the doctrines of graceIn post no. 185 you posted the following:
"Summary
If God loves (favors) everyone salvifically then He must love (volition to favor) "
YOU invented the phrase that God loves salvifically....not me.
God has conditions that must be met for salvation to occur.....
Acts 16:30-31
I don't make up my own definitions.
I tire of repeating the same statements to you over and over.
If you want to post some verses that prove we don't have free will,
I'll be happy to answer...otherwise we're just wasting time here and I don't have much of it.
You seem to presume that only you have a knowledge of true doctrineMy point being, who cares what "Reformed Theology" teaches, since its just one of many doctrines of man and only serves to divide the Church.
Why not teach the doctrine of Christ, since it involves our salvation.
Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you. 1 Timothy 4:16
JLB
The teaching is derived from the teaching of The Bible it's the teaching of Jesus the apostles and the prophets it's nicknamed Calvinism but it's actually just the teaching of scripture revealed and explainedBasically what you are saying, if I understand you right, is that the teachings of Calvinism supersede what has already been written in the scriptures.
And yet The Bible teaches that no man seeks God no not one so this idea of this Imaginary person who is really seeking God in and of himself without the Spirit of God does not existWhat if they won't be "convinced"?
Their fate is with all who are unbelieving.
Doesn't that imply that God doesn't love enough those who won't be convinced?
Who was Hitler's "Shepherd"?
Wasn't God "determined" enough?
I don't label myself with man's titles.
God has made Himself available to all who seek after Him.
His existence is unignorable to anyone who has seen a sunrise.
They are the flock of Christ.
Those who choose not to follow Him are the sheep of a different shepherd.