The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

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The law has no claim upon those for whom Christ died. The curse spent itself on our Redeemer. We are dead to the law. We are righteous, justified, guiltless, innocent in Christ Those Christ died for are dead to the law Rom 7:4 10

 

[brightfame52]

Christ’s Death Actually Saves

If the Lord Jesus died for absolutely everybody, then why are not all actually saved? Romans 6 makes it clear that those who are united to Christ in His death are dead to sin (6-7) and “alive unto God” (11), and will be raised bodily to glory (5). But many spend all their days “dead in trespasses and sins” (Eph. 2:1) and will rise in the “resurrection of damnation” (John 5:29). We can only conclude that they were not united to Christ in His death (i.e., He did not die for them), for if the reprobate were united to the Son of God in His death (i.e., if He died for them), they would die to sin and live unto God (Rom. 14:9; II Cor. 5:14-15).

Scripture teaches that both faith (Eph. 2:8-9; Phil. 1:29) and repentance (Acts 5:31; 11:18; II Tim. 2:25) are gifts of God’s grace. Faith and repentance are instances of “spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ” (Eph. 1:3). God’s blessings in Christ come through the cross (Rom. 8:32; Gal. 3:13-14). But “all men have not faith” (II Thess. 3:2) nor do all repent (Rev. 16:11). Thus faith and repentance were not purchased for everybody head for head on the cross and so the Saviour did not die for all. https://cprc.co.uk/pamphlets2/forwhomdidchristdie/ 10

 

[brightfame52]

THE WORK OF CHRIST

Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him. Isaiah 62:11

When I was a young man, the religious tradition in which I was raised spoke of “salvation” as a state which a man could attain by acting in his own free will to accept what CHRIST had done by HIS death on Calvary’s cross. It taught that if a man could be persuaded to “believe” and “receive CHRIST” then he could attain a standing or position known as “salvation”. Folks were urged to “get saved” as soon as possible so that in case they died they would be assured of a place in heaven where they could join all of the other neighbors and loved ones who had made similar “decisions” and gained heaven by their action of faith, avoiding the pit of hell in the process.

Though the work of CHRIST in dying on the cross was often spoken of, the true importance of what HE did was actually of secondary consequence since it was concluded that regardless of what HE had done on the cross, it made little difference if men did not “accept” it thereby making it effective in redeeming them. The basic concept which was taught was that CHRIST died for every individual on the face of the earth and had made the salvation of each one a possibility if they could just be persuaded to receive it and thereby gain its benefit; otherwise CHRIST had simply died in vain for all who did not believe.

While CHRIST’s work on the cross was said to be a payment for sin, yet the teaching was that no one was actually “saved” by it, only made “salvable”. The only sin that was left “unpaid for” was that of unbelief. So that by adding the work of faith to that which CHRIST did on Calvary this made a man saved. They said the only thing that could cause a man to go to hell was “unbelief.”

Therefore much time was spent and various methodologies adopted in order to influence men to exercise their “free will” and effect their own salvation by accepting HIM and making a profession of faith. They could even write the day and hour (in which they made this transaction) on a little card so if they ever began to doubt their “salvation” they could refer to the card and be assured. This scenario is played out in most churches and religious orders today with certain variations. Some require baptism in water as an act of obedience which washes away their sin, some expect that those who make such decisions to speak in a language unknown to men, some advocate that certain styles of dress be adopted, etc.

The list goes on but, in every case, the most important part of a man’s “salvation” is ultimately considered to be what “he does” since it is assumed that CHRIST has already done all that HE could do and has left this salvation up to men to either accept it or reject it. If that truly was the scenario that the LORD had displayed then no man would ever be saved, since the scripture clearly declares the deadness of men in their sinful state and says, “There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.” (Rom 3:11)

How different is the scriptural message concerning the “work of CHRIST”? HE came into the world in order to perform a specific work for which HE was ordained. As the angel told Joseph, “And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.” (Mat 1:21) “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,” (1Pet 1:18-20)

CHRIST is the REDEEMER, HE has bought and paid for the salvation of every one of those whom HE loved from before the foundation of the world. HE has not left one stone unturned nor in any wise failed to do everything that was needed in order to secure the redemption, justification, and sanctification of every one of them. Their salvation depends, one hundred percent, on what HE has done for them. “But the salvation of the righteous is of the LORD: he is their strength in the time of trouble.” (Psa 37:39)

When you ask a true believer to describe his “salvation”, he only needs one word: CHRIST. “But Christ is all, and in all.” (Col 3:11) If he needs more then it is too much. “But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:” (1Cor 1:30) There is nothing lacking in that which CHRIST has performed. Not only has HE purchased the redemption of HIS people by paying their sin debt, but HE has imputed HIS perfect righteousness in keeping the law to their account. Not only that but HE has triumphed over death and become the “first fruits” of the resurrection, thereby assuring them that if they die they shall indeed live again.

In addition, HE has sent HIS SPIRIT into the world to lay claim to every one of HIS elect, and does draw them to HIMSELF in the appointed hour and does lead them from darkness into LIGHT. HE has also promised to return to this earth to receive that which is HIS at the last trump. “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.” (John 6:37-39)

The salvation of the sons of GOD is totally the “work of CHRIST” from beginning to end. “Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.” (Heb 12:2) “Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.” (Heb 9:12) It is a false “gospel” that declares anything less. This is why Paul said, “For I determined not to know any thing among you, save (i.e.; except) Jesus Christ, and him crucified.” (1Cor 2:2)

To declare that CHRIST performed a work of salvation for a man which is not sufficient to save him, apart from some action on the man’s part, is to preach no “salvation” (only its possibility) at all, and is to count the precious blood of CHRIST as shed in vain for many. It is to disregard the efficacy of the blood of the SON of GOD and to deny the prophecy of Isaiah, “He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.” (Isa 53:11)

The atonement of CHRIST, which is the basis of the Christian faith can only be viewed in three possible scenarios. Either, 1. HE paid the price for the sins of all men, therefore all men are “saved”., or 2. HE paid the price for the sins of all men but actually saved none, leaving the final act of “salvation” in their hands. or finally and truthfully, 3. HE actually accomplished the work which HE came into the world to perform which was to redeem an elect people which were chosen in HIM before the foundation of the world and does save them to the uttermost. The latter is indeed the “work of CHRIST” upon which all who have been given “faith” must alone rely. “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.” (Joh 10:27-28)

Grace Gazette Volume 11 Issue 19

 

[Iconoclast]

Then "them" would be the whole world according to John 3:16 that will believe in Him as He died for the whole world, not just a few He choices to be saved.

Jesus died a covenant death for
Those given to Him by the Father.
They are the everyone believing of Jn3:15-16

 

[Iconoclast]

Please show me the scripture that Jesus only died for His own. If they were already His own then there would have been no need for His death on the cross.

Ezk34 God described His action in seeking and saving His sheep who have been Scattered.
He mentions how he himself is going to save them. He does not say hes gonna save goats

 

[Iconoclast]

your limiting the power of God if we are kept by the power of God then the power of God will save the whosoever .God does not desire any to perish but ALL come to repentance. i realize in being trained in reformed /Calvinism. you will redefine the word ALL . why would God send his only Son to the cross for just limited people? do you limit God power?

God is indeed willing that a multitude perish
God has revealed that He's gonna save a multitude more than the sand of the sea not a few as the caricature suggests.
Only believers are kept by the power of God.

 

[Iconoclast]

Christ's death and resurrection, His atonement, the ransom paid and the propitiary death was for EVERYONE that ever lived
beginning with Adam and through until the end of this world.

Whoever is saved, beginning in the O.T. BEFORE Christ, and thru all time, is saved due to Christ paying the ransom needed to buy us back from
satan, which is why we say that sin has died.

1 John 2:2 tells us that Jesus died not only for "our sins" (the saved at that moment) but for the sins of the whole world.
2and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

We all know that "world" could have different meanings but in this case it means everyone in the world.

How do YOU understand 1 John 2:2?
What does it mean to you that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world?

The children of God are scattered worldwide as in John 11:49 -52.
Propitiation is only made on behalf of believers. As the gospel goes worldwide and God effectually draws the elect to saving faith propitiation is applied to them turning away God's wrath from them.

 

[Iconoclast]

just how do you come to this concussion ? i limit nothing scripture tells us he tasted death for everyone But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone. i think you might ought to reword that...fact remains you dont define the word ALL for everyone you are taught only th elect. much like the picking of players for a ball game at recess . all the good players are chose the rest are bench warmers

In Hebrews 2 the everyone is explained throughout the passage where he calls of the church the sanctified and finally in verse 16 doesn't say he took on the seed of Adam and says he took on the seed of Abraham that is the elect.

 

[Iconoclast]

yes it is he is able to save to the utter most your problem is who can be saved i am more than understanding theology of the reformed /Calvinist

He saves them to the Uttermost who come to God by Him as mediator and surety .
you leave out the most important details you're not quite gonna come to truth That way.

 

[Iconoclast]

As everyone can plainly see by your lack of scripture, and logical fallacy, your perspective is not biblical.


Again, here is what the scriptures plainly states:


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16



This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance. For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. These things command and teach.
1 Timothy 4:9-11



Now, if you believe that God sent His Son to die only for His sheep, then please present the scripture that states this.



If you don’t have a scripture that says Jesus Christ died for only His sheep, then please consider repenting of promoting false doctrine in this community.




JLB

In John 10 and Luke 19 Ezekiel 34 is "quoted with Jesus being the great shepherd who comes to seek and save his sheep he doesn't try to save them He actually seeks and saves them.

 

[Iconoclast]

John chapter 12 and verse 32 means that the gospel was going worldwide as God had promised it would when he made the promise to Abraham Abraham would be the father of many nations he'll draw all men not just jews by gentiles also

 

[Iconoclast]

Sometimes a person will say SILLY to avoid saying SOMETHING ELSE!!

Honestly FF, Calvinism makes no sense.

The truth of Calvinism is just a biblical gospel fully understood.

 

[Iconoclast]

This is one of the problems.
Persons to to a reformed church and some pastors do not say the whole truth and
everything sounds so good.
The Westminster Confession of Faith is a lot softer than Calvin's Institutes.
If a person would read the Institutes (all 1,000 pages?!) I don't even understand why
anyone would want to be of the reformed faith. It is contrary to everything taught in the N.T.

We can have different opinions on doctrine.
Usually, on these threads, a person will explain why he believes as he does.
Most times I could understand how they would come to that conclusion.
In the case of the reformed I never understand how they could understand their
faith as they do.

They change the character of God. This goes beyond understanding a verse in a
different way.

I believe you're true what you said you don't understand how they come to these truths . You are set to oppose whatever's presented you're not even trying to understand it if you try and understand it you might begin to put some of the puzzle pieces together

 

[Iconoclast]

The sheep are those who heard their masters voice and follow Him. Before that they were no different than the goats who close their ears to the masters voice and go off on their own.

Jesus paid a debt He did not owe so that by God's grace through His sacrifice we can come to Him as He draws us as we hear the voice of our master calling us to repentance for by His blood made atonement for all (not a limited atonement) who will draw unto Him and receive God's free gift of grace for by which we are saved after coming to Christ.

Jn 10:26 teaches why they did not believe....they were not HIS SHEEP. You seem to be putting the cart before the horse John 6:37 -44 is very clear all that the Father gives to Jesus shall come to him if they aren't given they're not coming.

 

[Iconoclast]

(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.” Romans 9:11-13


Again, as you can plainly see, the context continues to show the election is not about whom God has chosen to save, but the election is according to the purpose of whom God chose to be the lineage of the Messiah.

• Election for purpose, not election for salvation.

Esau was not chosen for the purpose of bringing Christ into the world, Jacob was, even though Jacob was a deceiver, God foresaw that Esau was not fit for His purpose even though the “tradition” of that culture was to allow the older to have the birthright. God showing it’s according to the purpose of His will and not according to our natural understanding or traditions, which Paul was dealing with. Paul understood the Jewish mindset that the Jews believed they were God’s chosen people and were automatically saved (blessed) because the were the natural offspring of Abraham.


Furthermore, the word hate has a broader meaning in Hebrew thought than what the post modern definition of the word has today in our culture. That’s why contextually it must be determined what the writer means by this word.


If the Lord says we must hate our father and mother and family if we are to be His disciples, does that mean we are to “literally” in the common way we understand the hate today, hate our father and mother and family, or does that mean we are to prefer to follow Jesus and His teachings even if our family and culture do not believe?


Here is who Jesus considers as His family —


And it was told Him by some, who said, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see You.”
But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.”
Luke 8:20-21



Teaching people that they are chosen by God for salvation and can live whatever way the desire and will still be saved is a dangerous and unbiblical concept that has no place in Christian communities.


You seem to have a habit of lifting scriptures out of their context and bending them to fit your predetermined theology.
This is seen in your style of stating your opinion, then tagging your opinion with a scripture reference, all the while not actual posting the scripture and context for us to read and study.


The entire book of Romans is all about the obedience of faith, which is hearing God’s word and doing it; obeying it.


Those who obey God will be saved.
Those who disobey God will not be saved.


Ths will be seen on the Day of Judgement when we all will stand before our Lord to give account of what we did with the life He gave us, whether good or evil.

Whether you are a Jew or Gentile...

• Those who obey the truth will be receive eternal life.
• Those who obey unrighteousness will receive damnation.

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

JLB

In your effort to oppose the grace of God you seem to be leaning towards a works based salvation salvation by works is not the gospel

 

[Iconoclast]

What influences you and Fastfredy0 is that of man made religion of the Reformed ideas of Calvinism theology of mans doctrine that began in the 16th century that teaches limited atonement, which is not taught in the Bible. Many of us have proven this theology to be nothing more than heretical teaching by trying to show the both of you in scripture, but you have been so doctrinated by these ideas and theologies that you can not see the truth brought before you. You have every right to believe what you want, but when it comes to adding to or taking away from scripture God gave a warning for this in Rev 22:18, 19.

You and the others have proven no such thing at all in fact you have opposed the truth of scripture quite often.
You cannot defend your position consistently

 

[Iconoclast]

In post no. 185 you posted the following:

"Summary
If God loves (favors) everyone salvifically then He must love (volition to favor) "

YOU invented the phrase that God loves salvifically....not me.

God has conditions that must be met for salvation to occur.....
Acts 16:30-31



I don't make up my own definitions.
I tire of repeating the same statements to you over and over.

If you want to post some verses that prove we don't have free will,
I'll be happy to answer...otherwise we're just wasting time here and I don't have much of it.

There is not one verse that proves or suggest that free will exists. Free will is a false philosophical concept that people try to foist upon the scripture. Men are self willed but their will is bound by the nature so people go to a false philosophical concept as the default position to avoid the truth of the doctrines of grace

 

[Iconoclast]

My point being, who cares what "Reformed Theology" teaches, since its just one of many doctrines of man and only serves to divide the Church.

Why not teach the doctrine of Christ, since it involves our salvation.


Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you. 1 Timothy 4:16



JLB

You seem to presume that only you have a knowledge of true doctrine

 

[Iconoclast]

Basically what you are saying, if I understand you right, is that the teachings of Calvinism supersede what has already been written in the scriptures.

The teaching is derived from the teaching of The Bible it's the teaching of Jesus the apostles and the prophets it's nicknamed Calvinism but it's actually just the teaching of scripture revealed and explained

 

[Iconoclast]

What if they won't be "convinced"?
Their fate is with all who are unbelieving.

Doesn't that imply that God doesn't love enough those who won't be convinced?

Who was Hitler's "Shepherd"?
Wasn't God "determined" enough?

I don't label myself with man's titles.

God has made Himself available to all who seek after Him.
His existence is unignorable to anyone who has seen a sunrise.
They are the flock of Christ.
Those who choose not to follow Him are the sheep of a different shepherd.

And yet The Bible teaches that no man seeks God no not one so this idea of this Imaginary person who is really seeking God in and of himself without the Spirit of God does not exist