How is a biblical conflict solved?

[for_his_glory]

Really?
Baptismal Regeneration!

Baptism vs faith alone

Prophecy

“Baptism” / “Faith alone”

Ez 36:25-27 Nothing in scripture

Scripture

“Baptism “ / “Faith alone”
Matt 28:19 nothing found
Mk 16:16 “
Jn 3:5 “
Acts 2:38-39 “
Acts 8:36-38 “
Acts 22:16 “
Rom 6:3 “
Eph 4:5 “
Col 2:12 “
1 cor 12:13 “
Gal 3:27 “
2 Tim 1:10 “
eph 2:1 and 5 “
2 cor 5:17 “
Eph 1:13 “
Eph 5:26 “
Titus 3:5 “
1 pet 1:2 “
1 pet 2:9 “
1 pet 3:20-21 “
2 pet 1:11 “

Not “faith alone”

1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING.

Phil 1:29 not called to “faith alone”
But also to suffer for the sake of Christ.

James 2:24 justified by work and not by “faith alone”.

James 2:20 Faith without works is dead.

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing.
“Faith alone” not found in scripture.

Three things are eternal; faith, hope, and charity. 1 cor 13:13

Not “faith alone”.

Jesus Christ is Our salvation:

Truth / doctrine Jn 14:6
Sacrifice / sacraments Jn 1:16-17 Jn 1:29
Christ is in His person is our salvation Lk 2:30

How can it be “faith alone” Christ is not only a doctrine or set of beliefs but He is our Passover sacrifice and He is our salvation, His person, Lk 2:30 I have seen my Salvation!
We must have union with Christ by faith and baptism.



Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Water and the spirit.


Eph 2:1 & 5 quickend

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.


Let’s start with a statement we can both agree with.

Jesus Christ (the truth Jn 14:6) said: you cannot enter the kingdom unless you are born again!

Jn 3:5

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Now we agree a man must be born again to enter the kingdom of God and to be in Christ the one mediator and in communion with God and His saints!

How do we become born again?

2 pet 1: 11

For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Born again by Water AND the spirit!
Baptismal regeneration in Jesus Christ!

Jn 3:22

After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

Not with the baptism of John for repentance only but as John describes the new birth by baptism (water) and (the spirit) (and fire) the Christian sacrament of baptismal regeneration!

This is the new birth, we are born again, born from above, supernatural birth, we are in Christ a new creation by water and the spirit!

You CANNOT deny Jn 3:5 and being born again means baptismal Regeneration in Jesus Christ!
A new creation in Christ!

Prophecy ez 36:25-27 God baptizes us by water and the spirit!
Baptismal regeneration by water and the spirit.
John the Baptist prepared the way by baptism of repentance. Matt 3:8 Jn 1
John the Baptist declared Christ would baptize (water) and with the spirit. Jn 1:33
The waters of purification Jn 2 prefigured baptismal regeneration
Baptismal regeneration by water and the spirit Jn 3:5
Jesus makes disciples by baptism in Jn 4:1
Faith and baptism required for eternal salvation. Mk 16:16 Matt 28:19 acts 8:36-38

Context of Jn 1-4 is baptismal regeneration in Christ Jesus!

To be born again means baptismal regeneration in Jesus Christ!

“Faith alone” is not found in scripture!!!

The five Protestant sola‘s do not include being born again or baptismal regeneration!

Effects of baptismal regeneration:

Faith, hope, and charity are gifts of God that we receive with the grace of baptismal regeneration. (Fire) Matt 3:11 Love of God. Ez 36:25-27
Rom 5:5

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!


The Christian sacrament* of baptismal regeneration is required for the new covenant and salvation!

*this promise acts 2:38-39 is a sacred oath from God ez 36:25-27 and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Initiation!!!

Faith & Baptism is the initiation of the new and eternal covenant!

You cannot enter on you’re own or by “faith alone”!

You cannot receive Christ or grace by “faith alone”!

“Accept Christ as you’re personal lord and savior” is fundamentalist tradition not found scripture!

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Baptismal regeneration a new creation in Christ! 2 Cor 5:17

A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 (this promise)

No baptism no grace!

A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone!

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!

Christ instituted the holy church for the salvation of all men, (repent and believe the gospel, with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls! Matt 28:19

We have asked you several times to keep your postings shorter as there is just way to much to go through in trying to discuss them with you as there are not points to discuss, but only a ton of scriptures.

 

[journeyman]

Really?
Baptismal Regeneration!

Baptism vs faith alone

Prophecy

“Baptism” / “Faith alone”

Ez 36:25-27 Nothing in scripture

Scripture

“Baptism “ / “Faith alone”
Matt 28:19 nothing found
Mk 16:16 “
Jn 3:5 “
Acts 2:38-39 “
Acts 8:36-38 “
Acts 22:16 “
Rom 6:3 “
Eph 4:5 “
Col 2:12 “
1 cor 12:13 “
Gal 3:27 “
2 Tim 1:10 “
eph 2:1 and 5 “
2 cor 5:17 “
Eph 1:13 “
Eph 5:26 “
Titus 3:5 “
1 pet 1:2 “
1 pet 2:9 “
1 pet 3:20-21 “
2 pet 1:11 “

Not “faith alone”

1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING.

Phil 1:29 not called to “faith alone”
But also to suffer for the sake of Christ.

James 2:24 justified by work and not by “faith alone”.

James 2:20 Faith without works is dead.

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing.
“Faith alone” not found in scripture.

Three things are eternal; faith, hope, and charity. 1 cor 13:13

Not “faith alone”.

Jesus Christ is Our salvation:

Truth / doctrine Jn 14:6
Sacrifice / sacraments Jn 1:16-17 Jn 1:29
Christ is in His person is our salvation Lk 2:30

How can it be “faith alone” Christ is not only a doctrine or set of beliefs but He is our Passover sacrifice and He is our salvation, His person, Lk 2:30 I have seen my Salvation!
We must have union with Christ by faith and baptism.



Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Water and the spirit.


Eph 2:1 & 5 quickend

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.


Let’s start with a statement we can both agree with.

Jesus Christ (the truth Jn 14:6) said: you cannot enter the kingdom unless you are born again!

Jn 3:5

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Now we agree a man must be born again to enter the kingdom of God and to be in Christ the one mediator and in communion with God and His saints!

How do we become born again?

2 pet 1: 11

For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Born again by Water AND the spirit!
Baptismal regeneration in Jesus Christ!

Jn 3:22

After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

Not with the baptism of John for repentance only but as John describes the new birth by baptism (water) and (the spirit) (and fire) the Christian sacrament of baptismal regeneration!

This is the new birth, we are born again, born from above, supernatural birth, we are in Christ a new creation by water and the spirit!

You CANNOT deny Jn 3:5 and being born again means baptismal Regeneration in Jesus Christ!
A new creation in Christ!

Prophecy ez 36:25-27 God baptizes us by water and the spirit!
Baptismal regeneration by water and the spirit.
John the Baptist prepared the way by baptism of repentance. Matt 3:8 Jn 1
John the Baptist declared Christ would baptize (water) and with the spirit. Jn 1:33
The waters of purification Jn 2 prefigured baptismal regeneration
Baptismal regeneration by water and the spirit Jn 3:5
Jesus makes disciples by baptism in Jn 4:1
Faith and baptism required for eternal salvation. Mk 16:16 Matt 28:19 acts 8:36-38

Context of Jn 1-4 is baptismal regeneration in Christ Jesus!

To be born again means baptismal regeneration in Jesus Christ!

“Faith alone” is not found in scripture!!!

The five Protestant sola‘s do not include being born again or baptismal regeneration!

Effects of baptismal regeneration:

Faith, hope, and charity are gifts of God that we receive with the grace of baptismal regeneration. (Fire) Matt 3:11 Love of God. Ez 36:25-27
Rom 5:5

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!


The Christian sacrament* of baptismal regeneration is required for the new covenant and salvation!

*this promise acts 2:38-39 is a sacred oath from God ez 36:25-27 and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Initiation!!!

Faith & Baptism is the initiation of the new and eternal covenant!

You cannot enter on you’re own or by “faith alone”!

You cannot receive Christ or grace by “faith alone”!

“Accept Christ as you’re personal lord and savior” is fundamentalist tradition not found scripture!

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Baptismal regeneration a new creation in Christ! 2 Cor 5:17

A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 (this promise)

No baptism no grace!

A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone!

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!

Christ instituted the holy church for the salvation of all men, (repent and believe the gospel, with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls! Matt 28:19

My point was, everything we do stems from our faith in Jesus. Whatever work we do is the result of our faith in him.

 

[donadams]

There is no WORK that you can do to become righteous.
Only through having your sins forgiven by God can a person become righteous.
It is the righteousness of God, not our own. It comes from him and is given to us as a free gift.

Created in the image & likeness of God. Gen 1:26

Intellect & Will:

Faith & Love:

Faith:
Intellectual accent to the truths revealed by Christ and taught by His church. Matt 28:19 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

Love:
Thy will be done: Matt 6:10 heb 10:9

Matt 21:28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.

29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.

30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.

31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

Must bear Fruit:

Luke 13:9
And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

Jn -5:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

1 cor 13:2 not faith alone
Deut 6:5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
1 cor 13:13 THREE things are eternal, faith, hope, and charity.

 

[donadams]

This isn't a competition. He that posts the longest and/or most posts doesn't necessarily win.

Tip: Try to keep posts down to a reasonable level and focused on the topic if you really want others to take you seriously.

Good advice

 

[donadams]

??? What are you talking about? When have I described "five solas" in my remarks in this thread?

I don't know what you mean by "the Spirit and being born again are not in the solas."



If you'd been reading and thinking on what I've written in this thread so far, you'd not be asking me this question. Why do you bother posting these things to me since you refuse to consider the answers you're given? Don, you seem a man who is very insecure in his views - so much so that you can't actually consider other perspectives, for you know they prove your own to be in error. Be warned: The more you invest in defending error, the harder it will be to see the truth.

I’m not accusing you of anything, according to the five sola’s
Faith alone
Christ alone
Grace alone
Scripture alone
Glory to God alone
The Holy Spirit and born again are not included

I did ask input on the sola’s when I began this thread thanks

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We have asked you several times to keep your postings shorter as there is just way to much to go through in trying to discuss them with you as there are not points to discuss, but only a ton of scriptures.

May I politely suggest that you bring up the possibility of building a word limit into forum posts at your next moderator's meeting?

 

[donadams]

The water is actually amniotic fluid that surrounds the fetus in utero. If you have ever seen a birth you know that a woman's water "breaks", then the fetus is delivered.

You right but that has nothing to do with being born again regeneration new creation in Christ by both water AND the spirit

Jn 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

ez 36:25-27

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.​

Thanks

 

[donadams]

It don’t read:
Jn 3:5
Born in water born again by the spirit alone!

 

[donadams]

The Roman Catholic Church. He just want say it.

One, holy, catholic, and apostolic under the authority of Christ then Peter and his valid successor and the apostles and their valid successors Matt 16:18-19 Matt 28:19-20 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20
Christ and His church are one acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24 eph 5:32


Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
(Singular)

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9:4 eph 4:4 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Christ established the sacraments as the primary means of grace!

Sacramental life: Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Christ founded the church for the salvation of souls!
Teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation!
Matt 28:19

now the eternal church is God’s kingdom founded by God the perfect spotless bride of Christ prepared by God from heaven!

 

[donadams]

Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

 

[donadams]

The water is actually amniotic fluid that surrounds the fetus in utero. If you have ever seen a birth you know that a woman's water "breaks", then the fetus is delivered.

The biblical mandate of God’s work of creation!

Water and the spirit!

First creation:

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

(water and the spirit)

Noah:

Gen 8:8 Also he sent forth a dove (representing the spirit) from him…

(Water and the spirit)

Red Sea:

Led thru the waters by the spirit.
Exodus 13:21
And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:

(Water and the spirit)

Josuha

Joshua and the people of Israel crossing of the Jordan led by the spirit.

Joshua 1:1 Now after the death of Moses the servant of the Lord it came to pass, that the Lord spake unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses’ minister, saying, 2 Moses my servant is dead; now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them, even to the children of Israel.

(Water and the spirit)

Prophecy of the new creation: (new covenant)

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you…
acts 2:38-39 “this promise”

(Water and the Spirit)

Baptism of Jesus

Jn 1:31 I come baptizing with water. 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

(Water and the spirit)

New creation by water and the spirit

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

(Water and the spirit)

Christian sacrament of baptismal regeneration is by: WATER AND THE SPIRIT!


No one is born again by:

“the spirit alone”!
Or
“Faith alone”!

Water AND the spirit is the biblical mandate!

 

[donadams]

Where does it mention the Roman Catholic Church in scripture? Is church nature not to be the nature of Christ Jesus as each of us pick up our cross and follow after Him walking in obedience to His commands and not the commands of the Roman Catholic doctrine?

Ignatius might have established the first "catholic" church, but not the true Church of Christ that was founded on the day of Pentecost.

We are a new Spiritual creation in Christ not by baptism in water or the sprinkling of water, but by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and fire (empowerment) Matthew 3:11.

You can try as you might to twist the word of God, in which you do not believe in the Bible being inspired by God, or maybe I should say partially believe in since you quote from it, but also use other books being the writings of man that are not inspired by God as you fit your doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church making God and Jesus both Roman Catholic and only accepting the Roman Catholic Church as their own, but, FYI God does not recognize any organized worldly religion, but only knows His own by what spirit is living within them.

You would be better off taking your threads to the Catholic forum for which it was created for the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. I have nothing against you and am sure you have a heart for the Lord, but pushing your Catholic agenda here, you need to expect much opposition, even from those who use to be Catholic with many that still are, but do not believe in the many doctrines of the Catholic church.

God initiated each covenant and the mediator always remains on earth mediating the covenant except for Christ who made Peter His personal representative and vicar! (Matt 16:18-19) with the keys of jurisdictional authority over the kingdom or new covenant church!

Adam
(Marriage covenant)

Noah
(Family covenant)

Abraham
(Tribal covenant)

Moses:
(National covenant)

Jesus Christ:
(Universal covenant)

New and eternal covenant founded by Jesus Christ! Matt 16:18

Universal (Catholic)
World universal

Lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. ( catholic universal) All men!

Lk 2:31 prepared before the face of all (catholic) people. All men!

Jn 1:29 lamb of God who takes way the sins of the world. All men!

Jn 3:16 for God so loved the world

1 Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. All men!

Lk 2: 10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. All men!

11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. (All people universal) All men!

1 Tim 2:5 one mediator

Jn 10:16 One new covenant church

Only Jesus Christ has authority to found the church on Peter and the apostles! Matt 16:18-19 Matt 18:18
Jn 20:21 eph 2:20

All others are heretical sects the tradition of men!

Christ is king and established a kingdom!

Obedience to the apostles who have the jurisdictional authority to govern the church and administer the kingdom is obedience to Christ!

 

[donadams]

Not to earn salvation for if that were possible, we would be capable of boasting of our works. But, such as we are, it is not possible for us to fulfill the works perfectly and therefore we will all fall short as Paul explained in Romans 3:21-24 NKJV

21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.


I agree with must repent for it is a commandment of Jesus.

14 Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”
Mark 1:14-15 NKJV

But, none of those Scripture references you gave speak of penance and up till now, I have never found anywhere in Scripture where we are commanded to do penance. Can you show me where it is?


I agree.

Note: nobody is saying that we are to ignore or avoid works. What we believe is that our works are a result of our faith. We do works because of our faith and salvation not to gain or earn faith and salvation because to do it in the hopes of earning salvation, if that was even possible, negates the work of Christ and gives the earner opportunity to boast. We were created for works and should not deny that purpose for that is one reason for our creation.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:8-10 NKJV

Earning salvation would be Pelagianism or works alone.
Not the result of faith alone but by being members of Christ united in a covenant thru grace our actions can be meritorious for ourselves and for others because of grace

Eph 2:8 is not salvation

 

[donadams]

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

eph 2:8 does not refer to you’re salvation it’s already past tense when Paul wrote it so it refers redemption accomplished by Christ apart from our involvement not salvation or you’re being quote “saved”!

Not you’re faith! Not of yourselves!!!

The faith it refers to was that of Mary the mother of God! Lk 1:55

Christian faith includes baptism Jn 3:5 by water and the spirit and not faith alone 1 cor 13:2 and 1 cor 13/13

In verses 1 and 5 what does quickened mean?

redemption, justification, sanctification, and salvation are not the same:

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

(Redemption is not Salvation)
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace applied to our souls in the sacraments, prayer, virtue and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

 

[donadams]

Don,
Show me where it states that a priest is necessary for salvation.

A priest does not save you...
God does.

Explain how the CC understands justification.

I mean, the CC has enough problems because it's so misunderstood...
why spread an idea that is not even taught.

When I go to Mass I hear the priest say that we must believe in Jesus,
I never heard him say that HE saves anyone.

You could correct me if I'm wrong.

Heb 7:17 a priest forever
Jesus Christ our savior is a priest so it’s impossible to be saved without a priest

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

(Redemption is not Salvation)
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace applied to our souls in the sacraments, prayer, virtue and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Jn 15:1-5 abide in Him!

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

Hope this helps

 

[GodsGrace]

Heb 7:17 a priest forever
Jesus Christ our savior is a priest so it’s impossible to be saved without a priest

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

(Redemption is not Salvation)
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace applied to our souls in the sacraments, prayer, virtue and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Jn 15:1-5 abide in Him!

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

Hope this helps

Great post !



(watch those exclamation marks....you sound more serious if you don't use them).

 

[for_his_glory]

May I politely suggest that you bring up the possibility of building a word limit into forum posts at your next moderator's meeting?

Each post can only allow 10000 characters and after that amount the post is rejected automatically.

Under the old ToS under 2.6 it states - Please keep posts down to a respectable length and provide source and/or links for your info.

I know sometimes it takes a few paragraphs to explain certain Biblical things as even I do that many times, but when one comes in and list nothing more then a long list of scriptures then that is a bit much as there is no room for discussion. In the safe zones no one can edit their post, not even the staff, but reports can be made when there are violations of the ToS.

donadams we have asked you several times to comply with not making long post, but to break them up in a reasonable length so others can discuss with you. If you can not do this then your threads will be moved to the Unorthodox Christian Ideas forum. This is your last warning before any actions are taken against you.

 

[GodsGrace]

Each post can only allow 10000 characters and after that amount the post is rejected automatically.

Under the old ToS under 2.6 it states - Please keep posts down to a respectable length and provide source and/or links for your info.

I know sometimes it takes a few paragraphs to explain certain Biblical things as even I do that many times, but when one comes in and list nothing more then a long list of scriptures then that is a bit much as there is no room for discussion. In the safe zones no one can edit their post, not even the staff, but reports can be made when there are violations of the ToS.

donadams we have asked you several times to comply with not making long post, but to break them up in a reasonable length so others can discuss with you. If you can not do this then your threads will be moved to the Unorthodox Christian Ideas forum. This is your last warning before any actions are taken against you.

Jethro Bodine

This should be under TALK WITH STAFF.

I find the 10,000 word limit to be very difficult to deal with.
Sometimes, as least in my case, it's not that I list a lot of verses, this never works well anyway - I call it carpet bombing -
but the other member to whom I'm responding might have written a post that is longer than usual, and then when I add my reply it comes out to be too long.

It's not easy to then cut and paste it. A mistake could cause you to lose the whole post.

And why would Jethro want posts to be shorter?
We could pick and choose to what we want to reply -

And yes, I do agree that donadams does list far too many verses - this causes persons to just overlook them.
One or two verses get much more attention and still can make the point.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Mary the mother of God! Lk 1:55

Mary is not the mother of God. Jesus and the Father have existed from eternity past long before Mary. She was the mother from which Jesus' earthly body was birthed. That's all. She did not birth his divinity. He had that from eternity past.

 

[for_his_glory]

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

eph 2:8 does not refer to you’re salvation it’s already past tense when Paul wrote it so it refers redemption accomplished by Christ apart from our involvement not salvation or you’re being quote “saved”!

Not you’re faith! Not of yourselves!!!

The faith it refers to was that of Mary the mother of God! Lk 1:55

Christian faith includes baptism Jn 3:5 by water and the spirit and not faith alone 1 cor 13:2 and 1 cor 13/13

In verses 1 and 5 what does quickened mean?

redemption, justification, sanctification, and salvation are not the same:

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

(Redemption is not Salvation)
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace applied to our souls in the sacraments, prayer, virtue and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

So you do not see God's grace through faith alone to all who will only believe in His only begotten Son Christ Jesus in whom was before the foundation of the world being that of God's free gift to the world in whom we have salvation through His finished works on the cross and now sits at the right hand of the Father making intercession for us.

This is salvation 101.