The gate only opens from the inside!

[Humblepie]

Jesus can make anyone He wants an apostle.

Correct, he called 12 apostles. It was anyone he wanted.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Sure, Revelation.

But we are talking apostles as the scripture defines them. Paul was a self proclaimed apostle and doesn't fit the definition of a true apostle according to scripture.

Then there is more to being an apostle than you cite from scripture.
If Jesus tells someone that they are an apostle, it is good enough for me.
To me, an apostle is "one who is sent".

 

[Hopeful 2]

Correct, he called 12 apostles. It was anyone he wanted.

The thirteenth was determined by lot.
So don't "get locked into a box".

 

[Humblepie]

Is there a Kingdom here on earth?

Yes, a spiritual kingdom, but not an earthly kingdom.

The physical kingdom is yet to come.

Satan controls all other kingdoms on earth otherwise he wouldn't have offered them to Jesus.

8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him (((all))) the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”

 

[Humblepie]

one who is sent".

Scripture?

 

[Humblepie]

get locked into a box

What qualified the 13th by lot?

21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

22 ((((Beginning from the baptism of John,)))) unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be ((((a witness with us of his resurrection.))))

 

[GodsGrace]

2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his (((((((((disciples,))))))))))))

Anyone in the faith is a disciple.

Oh. I see what you mean.
OK
First of all, while Jesus was still alive they were called DISCIPLES.
After Jesus death they became APOSTLES to distinguish them from all of the disciples of Christ, of which you and I are 2.
Note John 20:19 The DISCIPLES were hiding for fear of the Jews after Jesus was crucified. It was the Apostles that were hiding....but they were still being called disciples here.

I'm willing to stand corrected on the fact that ORDINARY DISCIPLES were baptizing persons IF you can support your claim.

I don't agree that just anyone can baptize because it seems to me that Pastors and Priests can baptize....
The Apostles passed on their office/ministry with the laying on of hands....just as Jesus did to them.

Acts 6:6
3“Therefore, brethren, select from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may put in charge of this task.
4“But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word.”
5The statement found approval with the whole congregation; and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas and Nicolas, a proselyte from Antioch.
6And these they brought before the apostles; and after praying, they laid their hands on them.

 

[GodsGrace]

Good, I'm not looking for your opinion or approval

Well, HP, you may not be looking for my opinion but you will be getting it as long as you post in an open thread where everyone is allowed to respond to any post.

As to approval,,,,yes, you certainly do not need my approval.

 

[GodsGrace]

Good, I'm not looking for your opinion or approval

However, this is a good way of avoiding responding to my post to you....

Just saying.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Scripture?

Merriam Webster...LOL

And...Matt 9:38..."Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest."
And...Matt 10:16..."Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."
And...Mark 3:14..."And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,"
And...Mark 6:7..."And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;"
And...Luke 11:49..."Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:"
And...John 10:21..."Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you."
And...Acts 15:22..."Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas, chief men among the brethren:"
And, best of all...Acts 26:16-18..."But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me."

 

[Hopeful 2]

What qualified the 13th by lot?
21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
22 ((((Beginning from the baptism of John,)))) unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be ((((a witness with us of his resurrection.))))

God did.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, a spiritual kingdom, but not an earthly kingdom.

The physical kingdom is yet to come.

Satan controls all other kingdoms on earth otherwise he wouldn't have offered them to Jesus.

8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him (((all))) the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”

You're changing the subject.
We weren't speaking about the Kingdom.
I was trying to show you that Jesus came to create His Kingdom here on earth.
He gave the keys, which represent authority, to Peter.
The authority of Jesus is passed on to Peter....
and so forth.

If you're right,,,then everyone has the authority that Peter had.
What a confusion that would be!
We can't even decide if salvation is eternal !!

You should answer the rest of my post,,,if you want to of course.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Oh. I see what you mean.
OK
First of all, while Jesus was still alive they were called DISCIPLES.
After Jesus death they became APOSTLES to distinguish them from all of the disciples of Christ, of which you and I are 2.
Note John 20:19 The DISCIPLES were hiding for fear of the Jews after Jesus was crucified. It was the Apostles that were hiding....but they were still being called disciples here.

I'm willing to stand corrected on the fact that ORDINARY DISCIPLES were baptizing persons IF you can support your claim.

I don't agree that just anyone can baptize because it seems to me that Pastors and Priests can baptize....
The Apostles passed on their office/ministry with the laying on of hands....just as Jesus did to them.

Acts 6:6
3“Therefore, brethren, select from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may put in charge of this task.
4“But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word.”
5The statement found approval with the whole congregation; and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas and Nicolas, a proselyte from Antioch.
6And these they brought before the apostles; and after praying, they laid their hands on them.

Anyone can baptize.
The miracle happens because of the faith of the baptized, not because of the baptizer.

 

[GodsGrace]

What qualified the 13th by lot?

21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

22 ((((Beginning from the baptism of John,)))) unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be ((((a witness with us of his resurrection.))))

the 13th is qualified because he was chosen by the APOSTLES...
who were given AUTHORITY by Jesus.

The Great Commission was to THEM specifically.

The POWER of the Apostles is alive to this day....
to those whom THEY passed on the authority.

When the owner or CEO of a company/corporation dies, for instance, the new CEO must be chosen from among the top officers.....an employee two floors down doing normal work CANNOT assume the position of CEO.

And so it is with the church.

Note the small c please.

 

[GodsGrace]

Anyone can baptize.
The miracle happens because of the faith of the baptized, not because of the baptizer.

God is doing the baptizing....you're right.
But it would be a total confusion if anyone went around baptizing people.

Plus, I believe in Apostolic succession.
If this does not exist, the church is in shambles.

 

[Humblepie]

ORDINARY DISCIPLES

Does the Scripture differentiate between the two? If you can find me a verse that does differentiate between the two, I will concur. Otherwise, I've proved my point with scripture.

Disciples that were trained by Jesus in the flesh became apostles. Everyone else is a disciple according to scripture.
Not my definition, but scriptures definition. So what scripture do you have to prove your stance?

All Disciples and the Apostles are also referred to as saints.

 

[Humblepie]

the 13th is qualified because he was chosen by the APOSTLES...
who were given AUTHORITY by Jesus.

Bzzzz, wrong. That's not exactly what scripture says.

21 Therefore it is (((necessary))) to choose one of the men who have been (((with us the whole time the Lord Jesus was living among us,)))) 22 (((((beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us.)))) For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection.”


It is VERY specific.

 

[donadams]

History books can be true as well, but for doctrine, scripture is the only truth I need and rely on.
The RCC version of truth and their view on sola scripture laughable.

You can believe your religion Don, I can't, and I will not. I do not base my eternal life on their interpretation of what scripture says, there are too many false interpretations for me to accept that religion as truth.
There may be some truth in your religion, just as there are many other religions, such as the Muslim religion, but too many untruths for it to be of any value to me.


Now it's your turn to tell me that your religion (RCC) is the only true religion, and post verses out of context to try to prove your unproven stance. It's all just white noise and false interpretation to fit YOUR BELIEF, Instead of your belief proved by scripture.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Christ is our teacher!

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things by, by whom also he made the worlds;

“Not by scripture alone”!

That’s the nail in the coffin of “Sola scriptura” it is dead and buried, “false doctrine” the doctrine of demons like all the sola’s!
It’s

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jn 1:17

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life! Jn 14:6

 

[donadams]

Jn 3:22 they immediately went to the river to ((baptize))

Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

(Key verse! Actions speak louder than words: verse 22)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration! Not salvation proper but the beginning of salvation, union with God and the communion of saints by the grace of Jesus Christ the mediator of the new covenant!
Jn 15:4 Matt 24:13


baptismal regeneration!
A new creation in Christ! 2 cor 5:17
Jn 1 JTB prepared the way by baptism!
Jn 2 the waters of purification are OT prefigurement of baptism!
Jn 3:5 born again means baptism
Jn 3:22 they immediately went to the river! Not to preach “accept Christ as personal lord and savior”
But to BAPTIZE!!!

Thks

 

[Humblepie]

Merriam Webster...LOL

Sorry, it isn't scripture. You gladly refuse scriptures definition of an apostle to fit what you want to believe is true.

I will believe the scriptures definition of scriptures, not Websters definition.

21 Therefore it is ((((necessary)))) to choose one of the men who have been ((((with us)))) the whole time the Lord Jesus was ((((living)))) among us, 22 beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection.”