Thank you, W! I try to inform and entertain
LOL
W...God does that in scripture.
mt.1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Gal4
4 and when the fulness of time did come, God sent forth His Son, come of a woman, come under law,
5 that those under law he may redeem, that the adoption of sons we may receive;
Those elected before the world was were called to be saints. Those elected were chosen while they were still sinners.The work on the cross was the means God had purposed to accomplish full redemption for the elect sheep and turn away the wrath of God. Penal Substituionary Atonement is the biblical teaching of that fact.
Do I really need to go over this?
No. You don't need to go over this because it's not what I asked you.
I just never get my questions answered.
As you've stated so eloquently, the work on the Cross was the means by which God purposed to accomplish full redemption for the elect. All Christians know this. You keep telling me what all Christians know and accept.
Could we figure out why YOU are reformed? And IF you could explain your theology?
God sent Jesus, just as you've said to be our savior.
What makes Him our savior is that He saves those that desire to be saved as In John 3:16. (it's not my sides fault if you don't understand that it's prescriptive).
So...
Since man will not be having to desire and choose to follow Christ and accept His sacrifice,
but instead...
God will be doing all the choosing/decreeing and predestinating from before the beginning of the world...
WHY OH WHY was the sacrifice of Jesus necessary?
Before answering, think this over.
I do not mind as I love all things about the perfect sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Jn10
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
Agreed.
The problem is WHO ARE HIS SHEEP?
Jesus said it's the ones that hear His voice and recognize it.
How did that happen to them? They entered through the door...
they took an action.
John 10:9
9“I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved,,,
He didn't mention anything about God choosing anyone...
just that those that listen and learn from the Father get sent to Him...the Savior.
John 6:44-45
44“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
45“It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
Verse 44: God wishes all to come to salvation. 1 Timothy 2:4
Verse 45: The Father will personally teach everyone. Jeremiah 31:34
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
John 10:14
I am the good shepherd, and I know my own, and my own know me...
Jesus lays down His life for the sheep.
WHERE does it state that the sheep were chosen by God??
It states that Father and Son know each other, just like Jesus and His sheep know each other.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Acts20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
The gentiles are the other sheep.
Who do YOU think they are?
Ask your self a question W...if He died for all men, why are only the sheep and the church mentioned?
it does not say, sheep and goats, it does not say all mankind does it?
Jesus died for all men.
Not all men wish to be saved.
However, His sacrifice was large enough and sufficient enough to save ALL MEN...
Well it actually teaches everyone believing, and continuing on in a state of believing will be saved, but we can just keep that as a secret between us
it does not say choosing, it says everyone believing, it is a stated fact.
15 that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during,
16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.
Right.
Everyone who is believing at the time of their death will be saved.
No believing-
No salvation.
John 3:16
FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD
THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON
SO THAT WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM
WILL NOT PERISH
BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.
WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM....
this is why Jesus was sacrificed.
So that WHOEVER BELIEVES in HIM WILL NOT PERISH.
He chooses the ways and the means is exactly how
Happily for us, God let's us know the ways and means...
He does not keep it a secret as Calvin taught.
A perfect God does not do arbitrary
Correct.
Unfortunately, the reformed believe God chooses arbitrarily.
Look up what UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION MEANS.
It means God chooses FOR NO REASON AT ALL...
which means: ARBITRARILY.