How Does Jesus Save Us?

[Robert Pate]

This is a leading question in many theological circles.

Does Jesus save us by doing something in us? Or does Jesus save us by doing something totally and completely outside of us?

If Jesus could have saved us by doing something in us, then the incarnation of Jesus Christ was worthless. God could have sent his Holy Spirit into the world and caused unbelievers to be born again, no physical Christ would have been needed. Does this mean that all holiness religions are anti-Christ? What do you believe about that?

It is very apparent that Jesus saves us by doing something totally and completely outside of us. Paul wrote, "But God commended his love towards us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" Romans 5:8. Now, if you believe that Jesus saves us by doing something in us, then you are going to have to delete that scripture from your Bible because it does not make sense.

Here is another one. "For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life" Romans 5:10. Think about this. While we were sinful enemies of God, Jesus had ALREADY reconciled us and the world unto God. 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. The Gospel is a past historical event.

Before we were born salvation had already been provided for us, Hebrews 2:9. Our acceptance of Christ and his Gospel is not really what saves us. We were already saved by the doing and the dying of Jesus. We have already been MADE complete in him, Colossians 2:10. All that we have to do is accept it and believe it.

Paul makes it clear that if we are to be saved salvation must come to us totally and completely outside of us. It has in the work and the person of Jeus Christ. "God was in Christ reconciling us and the world unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. Only a real blood and flesh Jesus can do that.

 

[Charlie24]

This is a leading question in many theological circles.

Does Jesus save us by doing something in us? Or does Jesus save us by doing something totally and completely outside of us?

If Jesus could have saved us by doing something in us, then the incarnation of Jesus Christ was worthless. God could have sent his Holy Spirit into the world and caused unbelievers to be born again, no physical Christ would have been needed. Does this mean that all holiness religions are anti-Christ? What do you believe about that?

It is very apparent that Jesus saves us by doing something totally and completely outside of us. Paul wrote, "But God commended his love towards us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" Romans 5:8. Now, if you believe that Jesus saves us by doing something in us, then you are going to have to delete that scripture from your Bible because it does not make sense.

Here is another one. "For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life" Romans 5:10. Think about this. While we were sinful enemies of God, Jesus had ALREADY reconciled us and the world unto God. 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. The Gospel is a past historical event.

Before we were born salvation had already been provided for us, Hebrews 2:9. Our acceptance of Christ and his Gospel is not really what saves us. We were already saved by the doing and the dying of Jesus. We have already been MADE complete in him, Colossians 2:10. All that we have to do is accept it and believe it.

Paul makes it clear that if we are to be saved salvation must come to us totally and completely outside of us. It has in the work and the person of Jeus Christ. "God was in Christ reconciling us and the world unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. Only a real blood and flesh Jesus can do that.

I understand what you're saying and agree! We are not saved by anything we can do, by our works or by our performance. But by His works and performance on the Cross and His Resurrection. Which makes salvation possible.

To look at it another way, when we hear the Gospel of His finished work, and believer it, our salvation in a sense takes place from within.

Rom. 10:9-10
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

It is from the heart of belief that salvation takes place. But the work that Christ provided for us is the means by which we receive salvation. Which we have no part in but believing.

 

[Robert Pate]

I understand what you're saying and agree! We are not saved by anything we can do, by our works or by our performance. But by His works and performance on the Cross and His Resurrection. Which makes salvation possible.

To look at it another way, when we hear the Gospel of His finished work, and believer it, our salvation in a sense takes place from within.

Rom. 10:9-10
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

It is from the heart of belief that salvation takes place. But the work that Christ provided for us is the means by which we receive salvation. Which we have no part in but believing.

Nice to have you on the Forum. I will look forward to reading your comments.

 

[Mungo]

Robert Pate
Charlie24

How do Jesus' words "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk 16:18)
and Peter "Baptism, ...... now saves you "(1Pet3:21) fit onto your scenarios?

Also why did Jesus tell the apostles "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you" (Mt 28:19-20) and not just "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you"? Why tell them to baptise?

 

[Charlie24]

Nice to have you on the Forum. I will look forward to reading your comments.

I have already looked forward to reading yours! I like what I see!

 

[Charlie24]

Robert Pate
Charlie24

How do Jesus' words "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk 16:18)
and Peter "Baptism, ...... now saves you "(1Pet3:21) fit onto your scenarios?

Also why did Jesus tell the apostles "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you" (Mt 28:19-20) and not just "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you"? Why tell them to baptise?

"He who believes and is baptized (spiritually baptized) will be saved."

"Baptism (water baptism) which now saves you," is the literal picture of the spiritual baptism (our actual salvation) that actually saves us.

 

[Charlie24]

"He who believes and is baptized (spiritually baptized) will be saved."

"Baptism (water baptism) which now saves you," is the literal picture of the spiritual baptism (our actual salvation) that actually saves us.

Mungo

When Ananias said in Acts 22:16,

"And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized (water baptized), and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

He was referring to the visual, seen by man spiritual baptism, results of what happened to Paul on the road to Damascus when he said "Lord, what will you have me do," This is the very moment Paul was saved and spiritually baptized.

Ananias was sending Paul to be water baptized, no doubt with a crowd of people, to witness through water baptism the spiritual baptism that Paul had earlier experienced. Water baptism is our confession to Christ and man of His spiritually baptizing of us at salvation.

 

[Robert Pate]

Robert Pate
Charlie24

How do Jesus' words "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk 16:18)
and Peter "Baptism, ...... now saves you "(1Pet3:21) fit onto your scenarios?

Also why did Jesus tell the apostles "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you" (Mt 28:19-20) and not just "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you"? Why tell them to baptise?

Water baptism is a public profession of one's faith in Christ. It is something that we do, a work. Spiritual baptism is something that God does. When a repentant sinner comes to Christ to be saved by him, God spiritually baptizes him into Christ. God only sees him "In Christ" Romans 6:3.

Christ's life becomes our life. Christ's death becomes our death. Christ's resurrection becomes our resurrection. We are "In Christ" and Christ is in heaven, Colossians 3:3. This is how we are saved.

 

[Soldiers]

So Robert, I was encountered with a question (well saw it rather) and the person said that all you have to do is sin ask for forgiveness and all is better and continue the cycle, what do you think should be my response.

Also do you believe in the concept, once saved always saved?

 

[Robert Pate]

So Robert, I was encountered with a question (well saw it rather) and the person said that all you have to do is sin ask for forgiveness and all is better and continue the cycle, what do you think should be my response.

Also do you believe in the concept, once saved always saved?

This will probably come as a shock to you.

Because the law has been abolished Christians cannot sin. "Where there is no law there is no transgression" Romans 4:15. Jesus nailed the law to his cross, Colossians 2:14.

 

[Soldiers]

This will probably come as a shock to you.

Because the law has been abolished Christians cannot sin. "Where there is no law there is no transgression" Romans 4:15. Jesus nailed the law to his cross, Colossians 2:14.

That is a shock, because that's just not biblical.

According to your theory, a Christian cannot commit adultery, like Carl Lentz did, a Christian cannot abuse and lusts after women, like Ravi Zacharias did, a Christian cannot be a lover of money like all who preach the prosperity gospel.

According to your theory, Jesus does not commit us to a process of sanctification, everyone (including this forum) who said they are struggling with certain things either aren't Christians either, and the law hasn't been abolished, but fulfilled, two different things.

According to your theory there is no need to follow John 15:14

According to your theory Romans 13:1-5, Romans 3:31, John 14:21, Galatians 3:21, Matthew 5:17-19 are all lies. Or, maybe your theories are wrong and the verses are true, you can't just take one verse out of context and make a whole doctrine out of it, hence partly why we have 700 denominations. People just can't stop bringing up their own theories, and can't subject them to the knowledge of Christ as 2 Corinthians 10:5 instructs us to.

According to versebyversecommentary:
"The principle here is that, if there is no law, then there is no transgression. Transgression is the crossing of a line or standard set up by God. A person can sin but, if there is no law prohibiting that sin, there is no crossing of a standard, even God’s norms. No one can have responsibility for a violation if there is no extant law that forbids it. Until God gave the law 500 years after Abraham, there was no transgression.
Ro 5:13, (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
“No transgression” does not mean there is no sin. The idea here is simply that a transgression is the basis for annulling God’s promise. God cannot fulfill His promise if those to whom He made the promise come short of the promise by keeping the law.
Sin occurred before the law, but it was not a transgression because there was no extant standard to prohibit it. Again, the law made sin sinful."

Bibleref.com
"This is not meant to be understood to mean those not under the law have never sinned. Everyone has sinned (Romans 3:23), and has done so without any valid excuse (Romans 1:18–20). Paul simply means that those who are not under the law have not broken the law, specifically."

 

[Robert Pate]

That is a shock, because that's just not biblical.

According to your theory, a Christian cannot commit adultery, like Carl Lentz did, a Christian cannot abuse and lusts after women, like Ravi Zacharias did, a Christian cannot be a lover of money like all who preach the prosperity gospel.

According to your theory, Jesus does not commit us to a process of sanctification, everyone (including this forum) who said they are struggling with certain things either aren't Christians either, and the law hasn't been abolished, but fulfilled, two different things.

According to your theory there is no need to follow John 15:14

According to your theory Romans 13:1-5, Romans 3:31, John 14:21, Galatians 3:21, Matthew 5:17-19 are all lies. Or, maybe your theories are wrong and the verses are true, you can't just take one verse out of context and make a whole doctrine out of it, hence partly why we have 700 denominations. People just can't stop bringing up their own theories, and can't subject them to the knowledge of Christ as 2 Corinthians 10:5 instructs us to.

According to versebyversecommentary:
"The principle here is that, if there is no law, then there is no transgression. Transgression is the crossing of a line or standard set up by God. A person can sin but, if there is no law prohibiting that sin, there is no crossing of a standard, even God’s norms. No one can have responsibility for a violation if there is no extant law that forbids it. Until God gave the law 500 years after Abraham, there was no transgression.
Ro 5:13, (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
“No transgression” does not mean there is no sin. The idea here is simply that a transgression is the basis for annulling God’s promise. God cannot fulfill His promise if those to whom He made the promise come short of the promise by keeping the law.
Sin occurred before the law, but it was not a transgression because there was no extant standard to prohibit it. Again, the law made sin sinful."

Bibleref.com
"This is not meant to be understood to mean those not under the law have never sinned. Everyone has sinned (Romans 3:23), and has done so without any valid excuse (Romans 1:18–20). Paul simply means that those who are not under the law have not broken the law, specifically."

I showed you the scripture, why are you saying it not biblical? "Where there is no law there is no transgression" Romans 4:15. Paul said, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to those that believe" Romans 10:4. If Christ is the end of the law for those that believe, then it is not possible for a Christian to sin. Here is another one for you. The law promotes sin, Romans 7:8.

 

[Soldiers]

I showed you the scripture, why are you saying it not biblical? "Where there is no law there is no transgression" Romans 4:15. Paul said, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to those that believe" Romans 10:4. If Christ is the end of the law for those that believe, then it is not possible for a Christian to sin. Here is another one for you. The law promotes sin, Romans 7:8.

Then that means the Bible contradicts itself (Romans 13:1-5, Romans 3:31, John 14:21, Galatians 3:21, Matthew 5:17-19) or, that you misused that verse. Especially Matthew 5:17-19. And the law doesn't promote sin, it exposes the sin in our life and defines what's sinful, so that we know what we were saved from.

 

[Mungo]

"He who believes and is baptized (spiritually baptized) will be saved."

"Baptism (water baptism) which now saves you," is the literal picture of the spiritual baptism (our actual salvation) that actually saves us.

You really have to distort scripture to match your theology.
Nowhere does scripture use the phrase "spiritual baptism".
You have to add to scripture (in Mk 16:16 to make scripture say what it doesn't.

 

[Mungo]

Mungo

When Ananias said in Acts 22:16,

"And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized (water baptized), and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

He was referring to the visual, seen by man spiritual baptism, results of what happened to Paul on the road to Damascus when he said "Lord, what will you have me do," This is the very moment Paul was saved and spiritually baptized.

Ananias was sending Paul to be water baptized, no doubt with a crowd of people, to witness through water baptism the spiritual baptism that Paul had earlier experienced. Water baptism is our confession to Christ and man of His spiritually baptizing of us at salvation.

You just pluck two disconnected bits of scripture to try and shoehorn scripture into your theology.

 

[Mungo]

Water baptism is a public profession of one's faith in Christ. It is something that we do, a work. Spiritual baptism is something that God does. When a repentant sinner comes to Christ to be saved by him, God spiritually baptizes him into Christ. God only sees him "In Christ" Romans 6:3.

Christ's life becomes our life. Christ's death becomes our death. Christ's resurrection becomes our resurrection. We are "In Christ" and Christ is in heaven, Colossians 3:3. This is how we are saved.

Where does scripture say "Water baptism is a public profession of one's faith in Christ."?

Where does scripture say "When a repentant sinner comes to Christ to be saved by him, God spiritually baptizes him into Christ"?

 

[Robert Pate]

Then that means the Bible contradicts itself (Romans 13:1-5, Romans 3:31, John 14:21, Galatians 3:21, Matthew 5:17-19) or, that you misused that verse. Especially Matthew 5:17-19. And the law doesn't promote sin, it exposes the sin in our life and defines what's sinful, so that we know what we were saved from.

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were all written under the law. The only books in the New Testament that were not written under the law are Paul's epistles. Yes, the law does promote sin, Romans 7:7-12. The law is the nature and the character of God. Those that are trying to keep the law and the commandments are trying to be like God. You can't be like God because you are a sinner, born after Adam, Romans 5:12. The law will cause you to be a hypocrite. Jesus referred to Pharisees as hypocrites seven times in the 23rd Chapter of Matthew.

When Jesus died on the cross everything changed, God tore the veil that covered the Holy of Holies from the top to the bottom, Matthew 27:51. This signified the end of the Old Covenant of law and religion and the beginning of the New Covenant of faith and the Gospel. Under the New Covenant, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to those that believe" Romans 10:4. This is why Paul said, "The just (justified) shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. In the Gospel God sees his people as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. No laws, rules or religion needed. The question is do you believe?

 

[Robert Pate]

Where does scripture say "Water baptism is a public profession of one's faith in Christ."?

Where does scripture say "When a repentant sinner comes to Christ to be saved by him, God spiritually baptizes him into Christ"?

Romans 6:1-14, talks about how we are baptized into Christ. Where is there anything about the Catholic church in the Bible?

 

[Highway54]

This is a leading question in many theological circles.

Does Jesus save us by doing something in us? Or does Jesus save us by doing something totally and completely outside of us?

If Jesus could have saved us by doing something in us, then the incarnation of Jesus Christ was worthless. God could have sent his Holy Spirit into the world and caused unbelievers to be born again, no physical Christ would have been needed. Does this mean that all holiness religions are anti-Christ? What do you believe about that?

It is very apparent that Jesus saves us by doing something totally and completely outside of us. Paul wrote, "But God commended his love towards us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" Romans 5:8. Now, if you believe that Jesus saves us by doing something in us, then you are going to have to delete that scripture from your Bible because it does not make sense.

Here is another one. "For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life" Romans 5:10. Think about this. While we were sinful enemies of God, Jesus had ALREADY reconciled us and the world unto God. 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. The Gospel is a past historical event.

Before we were born salvation had already been provided for us, Hebrews 2:9. Our acceptance of Christ and his Gospel is not really what saves us. We were already saved by the doing and the dying of Jesus. We have already been MADE complete in him, Colossians 2:10. All that we have to do is accept it and believe it.

Paul makes it clear that if we are to be saved salvation must come to us totally and completely outside of us. It has in the work and the person of Jeus Christ. "God was in Christ reconciling us and the world unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. Only a real blood and flesh Jesus can do that.

Through his shed flesh and blood.

 

[Robert Pate]

Through his shed flesh and blood.

When Jesus died on the cross all of humanity spiritually died with him, Romans 6:6.