How Does Jesus Save Us?

[Jethro Bodine]

That doesn't say "Water baptism is a public profession of one's faith in Christ."

What is it about "the pledge of a good conscience toward God" that you do not understand? 1 Peter 3:21 BSB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Also see post #22 for why Romans 10:10 doesn't say what you claim.

You're missing the point by a mile. You're not making the proper distinction between justification and being saved.

Justification (becoming righteous in God's sight) is what makes you a saved person (Hebrews 10:10, Hebrews 10:14). And justification occurs solely on the basis of believing the gospel. You become a saved believer the moment you have faith in the gospel message. Being saved by being obedient to God's commands (works) do not make you righteous in God's sight. Only having your unrighteousness forgiven and replaced with God's righteousness can make you righteous and, therefore, qualified to enter into the kingdom. The Sacraments do NOT make a person righteous. They have no power to do that. Only the forgiveness of sin makes a person righteous.

 

[Robert Pate]

If you are so right then why are you robotically avoiding the verses that contradict your understanding of Paul, I notice you rarely if ever address a comment directly just repeat what you've said like your talking to yourself.

You haven't addressed the contradiction of your eisegesis of Paul compared to "Romans 13:1-5, Romans 3:31, John 14:21, Galatians 3:21, Matthew 5:17-19".

You haven't addressed how can the law be God's nature and character and at the same time promote sin?

You haven't addressed the commentaries which show the real meaning of Romans 7:8
According to versebyversecommentary:
"The principle here is that, if there is no law, then there is no transgression. Transgression is the crossing of a line or standard set up by God. A person can sin but, if there is no law prohibiting that sin, there is no crossing of a standard, even God’s norms. No one can have responsibility for a violation if there is no extant law that forbids it. Until God gave the law 500 years after Abraham, there was no transgression.
Ro 5:13, (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
“No transgression” does not mean there is no sin. The idea here is simply that a transgression is the basis for annulling God’s promise. God cannot fulfill His promise if those to whom He made the promise come short of the promise by keeping the law.
Sin occurred before the law, but it was not a transgression because there was no extant standard to prohibit it. Again, the law made sin sinful."
Bibleref.com
"This is not meant to be understood to mean those not under the law have never sinned. Everyone has sinned (Romans 3:23), and has done so without any valid excuse (Romans 1:18–20). Paul simply means that those who are not under the law have not broken the law, specifically."

You haven't addressed "And when you assert to no laws rules or religion, are you saying you are free to sin and do whatever you want or that the working power of the Holy Spirit through faith will wipe sin from our lives?
Do you believe in the need to deny ourselves, take up our cross, and follow Jesus?
And you believe the Gospel's were written under the law, where is that mentioned in Scripture? And even so they are also God breathed like the whole Bible (2 Timothy 3:16-17) you can't cherry picked verses that support your doctrine and reject others that don't."

What you're doing and what others have pointed out is that you're twisting Scripture to support you're overarching theology of faith/no works salvation, which you have a crooked eisegesis of Paul, which contradicts other passages of Scripture, but your pride refuses for you to admit that.

The book of James also contradicts your entire foundation of your personally altered theology. You can say it was written under the law (which you have zero evidence for than your opinion) but 2 Timothy 3:16-17 contradicts your view that James, or any passage of the Bible that contradicts your thesis isn't usable.

Revelation 22:18-19 "18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.

Using Scripture to justify your own theology is were things get dangerous. But enjoy to your own expense.

Another long rambling post concerning the law.

People that have trouble understanding the law and why it has been abolished do not understand the Gospel and justification by faith. In the Gospel Jesus fulfills the law and then abolishes it. This is why Paul wrote, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to those that believe" Romans 10:4. Your whole problem is that you don't believe.

Concerning the book of James. James was not written to Gentile believers. It was written to law keeping Jews, James 1:1. The book of James is very Jewish. Many Christian scholars believe that it should not have been included in the with the other cannons. Martin Luther was one of them. James was a Judaizer. A Judaizer is one that believes in Jesus, but also believes that you must keep the law of Moses.

 

[Rookie]

Another long rambling post concerning the law.

People that have trouble understanding the law and why it has been abolished do not understand the Gospel and justification by faith. In the Gospel Jesus fulfills the law and then abolishes it. This is why Paul wrote, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to those that believe" Romans 10:4. Your whole problem is that you don't believe.

Concerning the book of James. James was not written to Gentile believers. It was written to law keeping Jews, James 1:1. The book of James is very Jewish. Many Christian scholars believe that it should not have been included in the with the other cannons. Martin Luther was one of them. James was a Judaizer. A Judaizer is one that believes in Jesus, but also believes that you must keep the law of Moses.

Another excuse to avoid your opponents evidence that disproves your theology. Did you read the long rant or did you skim over it in rush to doing what's described in Proverbs 18:2. Your committing a classic Affirming a disjunct fallacy.

When are you going to acknowledge your fallacies proven by: "Romans 13:1-5, Romans 3:31, John 14:21, Galatians 3:21, Matthew 5:17-19".

When will you acknowledge that the law cannot promote sin and be of God at the same time, it's a contradiction. You just have to be right do you Robert Pate?

When will you address the commentaries that seggust you've twisted Scripture for your own gain?

And just because you don't like James doesn't make it non canon. Facts don't care about your feelings. Even if it was true some didn't want it in the canon, God did and 2 Timothy 3:16-17 defeats your rant of James being whatever you claim him to be (but have zero evidence to back up and zero Scripture to confirm)

If you're so right, correct every one of the "rants" that are given.

 

[Robert Pate]

Another excuse to avoid your opponents evidence that disproves your theology. Did you read the long rant or did you skim over it in rush to doing what's described in Proverbs 18:2. Your committing a classic Affirming a disjunct fallacy.

When are you going to acknowledge your fallacies proven by: "Romans 13:1-5, Romans 3:31, John 14:21, Galatians 3:21, Matthew 5:17-19".

When will you acknowledge that the law cannot promote sin and be of God at the same time, it's a contradiction. You just have to be right do you Robert Pate?

When will you address the commentaries that seggust you've twisted Scripture for your own gain?

And just because you don't like James doesn't make it non canon. Facts don't care about your feelings. Even if it was true some didn't want it in the canon, God did and 2 Timothy 3:16-17 defeats your rant of James being whatever you claim him to be (but have zero evidence to back up and zero Scripture to confirm)

If you're so right, correct every one of the "rants" that are given.

Naaa, You are in denial of the Gospel and justification by faith. Without the Gospel all that you have is religion. Paul clearly said that the law promotes sin, "But sin taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence (lust) For without the law sin was dead, Romans 7:8. The reason that you have a problem with lust and sin is because you are under the law. You need to be dead to the law and alive to Christ. Jesus abolished the law so that you could be free from sin, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to them that believe" Romans 10:4. You apparently enjoy wallowing around in your sins.

 

[Rookie]

Naaa, You are in denial of the Gospel and justification by faith. Without the Gospel all that you have is religion. Paul clearly said that the law promotes sin, "But sin taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence (lust) For without the law sin was dead, Romans 7:8. The reason that you have a problem with lust and sin is because you are under the law. You need to be dead to the law and alive to Christ. Jesus abolished the law so that you could be free from sin, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to them that believe" Romans 10:4. You apparently enjoy wallowing around in your sins.

Nope your just a practicing heretic who refuses to accept anything that contradicts his false gospel.

As I said before, if your in the right, you should be able to prove me wrong, and not give the same default and robotics responses that have been proven by multiple users fallacious

 

[Iconoclast]

This will probably come as a shock to you.

Because the law has been abolished Christians cannot sin. "Where there is no law there is no transgression" Romans 4:15. Jesus nailed the law to his cross, Colossians 2:14.

You sin everyday.

 

[Iconoclast]

Naaa, You are in denial of the Gospel and justification by faith. Without the Gospel all that you have is religion. Paul clearly said that the law promotes sin, "But sin taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence (lust) For without the law sin was dead, Romans 7:8. The reason that you have a problem with lust and sin is because you are under the law. You need to be dead to the law and alive to Christ. Jesus abolished the law so that you could be free from sin, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to them that believe" Romans 10:4. You apparently enjoy wallowing around in your sins.

You do not understand the gospel, the law, Romans , you bring false ideas, non-christian ideas.

 

[Iconoclast]

When Jesus died on the cross all of humanity spiritually died with him, Romans 6:6.

2

 

[Robert Pate]

2

Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

 

[Robert Pate]

You sin everyday.

Not in God's eyes. I am complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

 

[Robert Pate]

Nope your just a practicing heretic who refuses to accept anything that contradicts his false gospel.

As I said before, if your in the right, you should be able to prove me wrong, and not give the same default and robotics responses that have been proven by multiple users fallacious

I have ALREADY proved you wrong with scripture.

 

[Highway54]

When Jesus died on the cross all of humanity spiritually died with him, Romans 6:6.

Actually quite the opposite Robert, it was through his death that we could become alive spiritually sir.

 

[Robert Pate]

Actually quite the opposite Robert, it was through his death that we could become alive spiritually sir.

If you are going to refute me, you will have to do it with scripture. 1 John 2:2 says that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world. This means that salvation has been provided for everyone, Hebrews 2:9.

 

[Mungo]

What is it about "the pledge of a good conscience toward God" that you do not understand? 1 Peter 3:21 BSB

What I don't understand is how it is supposed to answer the question:
Where does scripture say "Water baptism is a public profession of one's faith in Christ."

 

[Mungo]

You're missing the point by a mile. You're not making the proper distinction between justification and being saved.

Justification (becoming righteous in God's sight) is what makes you a saved person (Hebrews 10:10, Hebrews 10:14).

You say I'm not making the proper distinction between justification and being saved.
And then you say "Justification (becoming righteous in God's sight) is what makes you a saved person".
So what do you mean by a proper distinction between the two?

And justification occurs solely on the basis of believing the gospel. You become a saved believer the moment you have faith in the gospel message.

That's just your opinion. You give no scripture to prove it true.

Being saved by being obedient to God's commands (works) do not make you righteous in God's sight. Only having your unrighteousness forgiven and replaced with God's righteousness can make you righteous and, therefore, qualified to enter into the kingdom. The Sacraments do NOT make a person righteous. They have no power to do that. Only the forgiveness of sin makes a person righteous.

God makes us righteous in the sacraments. It is in the sacrament of baptism that our sins are forgiven:
And Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38)

You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. And even when you were dead (in) transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he brought you to life along with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions; (Col 2:11-13)

Ananias to Paul: Now, why delay? Get up and have yourself baptised and your sins washed away, calling upon his name. (Acts 22:16).

 

[Iconoclast]

If you are going to refute me, you will have to do it with scripture. 1 John 2:2 says that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world. This means that salvation has been provided for everyone, Hebrews 2:9.

Here is the end result of this avalanche of false teaching...Universalism heresy

 

[Robert Pate]

Here is the end result of this avalanche of false teaching...Universalism heresy

Jesus has universally provided salvation for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. But nothing is ours until it is received, John 1:12. You would do well to call on Christ to save you while you still have breath, Romans 10:13.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

When Jesus died on the cross all of humanity spiritually died with him, Romans 6:6.

Hello Robert.
Paul is talking about putting the desires of our flesh to death,

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Rom.6;12

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if yet hrough the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. Rom.8:13

Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. Heb.12:4

That's the truth of what our great Savior was doing on the cross. While in a mans body, resisting the temptation to kill his enemies.
People don't realize why our Lord sweat blood just before he was arrested.
It boggles the mind how mankind sinned against God without being burned to ashes. Thank you Lamb of God.

 

[Fastfredy0]

How Does God Save Us

Method 1:




or Method 2:



or Method 3:

or Method 4: Universalism (I don't believe in universalism but I like the idea that if I am wrong I'm still in)

or Method 5: Mormonism (I don't believe in mormonism but I like the idea that if I am wrong I'm still in though not in the highest of 3 heavens; but any heaven beats hell)

I gravitate to Method 1. Method 2, though imperfect IMO, still can have an outcome of eternal bless. Explaining my alliance to Method 1 over Method 2 would take too long.

Method 3 seems catastrophic in my mind. When you understand the idolatry of the mass, that propitiatory sacrifice of Christ can never save anyone, the treasury of merit, indulgences, the excess merit of Mary, purgatory, that one righteousness consists of that of Christ, Mary, the saints and oneself, sacraments, that the priest is another Christ … then one does not have the gospel of that leads to salvation. James White, See Galatians 1:6-9

Furthermore regarding Method 3 consider:
Method 3 Premise 1: You must be water baptized to be saved
Method 3 Premise 2: The purpose of John's gospel is in John 20:31 but these have been written so that you may believe [with a deep, abiding trust] that Jesus is the Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed), the Son of God; and that by believing [and trusting in and relying on Him] you may have life in His name.
Method 3 Premise 3: Water baptism no mentioned in John
Method 3 Premise 4: You are not saved by works (Eph. 2:9; Rom. 11:6)
Conclusion: Since John is written with the purpose of salvation and water baptism is not mentioned one concludes it is not necessary. Similarly, since we are not saved by works then one concludes the work of water baptism is not necessary. Therefore, Method 3 is false.
Aside: The official line (maybe it's change) of proponents of Method 3 stipulate the proponents of other methods are doomed.

Aside: one can easily conclude by reading the unending, numerous opinions on the forum on this critical question; that the ability to clearly discern truth from scripture is truly an illusive commodity. Good luck ... or perhaps ... fortunate predestination