Spiritual gifts: Unconfusing them

[Rookie]

Heresy, where in the Bible do you find your doctrine: ?

Heresy just means false doctrine, here's 36 places you can find Scripture on that https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Heresies

NOWHERE ! The only verse you might twist to come close to this statement is: 1 Cor 14.28.
You flip between its real and fake. So give us an example of REAL TONGUES ... you say:

Prove that I'm twisting it with evidence not personal conjunctive opinions.

You're so focused on the FAKES, you can't see the real ... nor have you been Baptized with the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in tongues. Because you so afraid of satan's lies/fakes ... you convince others of your UNBIBLICAL views.

You seemed to be very worked up about this we are all Christians here chill down bud. Can you prove I can't see the real or I convince people of unbiblical views? Can you prove your not the one who's twisting Scripture?

The only evidence Joel's promise was fulfilled was that the 3000+ Jews saw the 120 speaking in other tongues. The 3000+ were not in the upper room ... so could not have seen Holy Spirit come UPON the heads of the 120 ( Acts 1.3 ). No, they only saw the 120, after they left the upper room. Peter explained, what the 3000+ SAW/heard ... the other tongues ... was proof/sign that ( Joel 2.28-29, Luke 24.49, Acts 1.5 ) had been fulfilled. When, you finally realize this, you might humble yourself ... and ask Jesus to Baptize you with the Holy Spirit ( like the 120 and the 3000+ Jews who wanted same Joel promise ). You will be surprised with the result ... if you can rid yourself of your unbelief caused by concentrating on fakes or false doctrine.

Don't know what this has to do with anything I said, I'm talking about today not back then

You're false doctrine and fear tactics, steer honest seeking Believers, who desire the spiritual gifts and who are also told to seek prophecy

Once again you cannot prove a single thing you just said, please stop assuming things People can be saved without tongues or prophecy (there are other spiritual gifts too). And my main thing isn't that all tongues are fake, but none of them have an interpreter and some who are speaking "tongues" are living in deliberate and habitual sin which 1 John 3:5-10 tells us whoever practices sin isn't of God but the devil and those of the devil don't have gifts of the Spirit.. And the verse your claiming I'm twisting can't put it more simply. Some even believe all you need to do is learn greek to know tongues and that anyone who wants to speak in it can.

I don't see anything scary there or any doctrine I'm promoting for that matter. Just put a point.

 

[Rookie]

The above is clear evidence, you're focused on ... what you to believe is fake ( yeah some maybe ).

You don't explain how ... the honest Christian ... can expect God to use them ... receiving real gifts ... then operating them to the benefit of other Believers and the unsaved. To Bad !

I have seen many many testimonies of people who have been bald and after prayer their hair started to grow. In at least 3 cases, the people had alopicia from birth. I personally saw TWO people regrow their hair after prayer ... I saw the before and after ! Why not ? Ultimately, God is still the healer ... not the person praying ! Nobody likes baldness ... God even says its a curse/judgement ( Isa. 3.17, Isa. 3.24, Isa. 15.2 ).

You use Mike Winger above to promote you're SCARE tactics. Winger seems sincere ... but he is as paranoid as you are ABOUT THE REAL GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT ... so winger focuses on so-called ( ? ) fakes to promote his false doctrines ... about such TRUTHS as the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in tongues.

In the video below, WINGER falsely explains, that the real meaning of "TOUCH NOT MY ANOINTED" ( 1 Sam.26.11 ) is nothing more than ... an admonition ... don't go kill someone because you're mad at them.

HOW ABSURD ! GET REAL MIKE WINGER ! The Hebrew word for anointed is the word MASHIACH = Messiah ( https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h4899/kjv/wlc/0-1/ ). Obviously, there is a more serious point being made here by GOD and a real warning TO THE LIKES OF MIKE ... even though Saul had COMMITTED some real "bone-head" sins ... he was still God's anointed. Mike's IGNORANT explanation of 1 Sam. 26.11, is a real poor argument ... to justify him trying to point out "so-called" fakes ( God knows who is --- He can deal with it ). Today's real anointed Christians ... unfortunately make bone-headed mistakes !

Stick to encouraging Christians in REAL Biblical truths and how to receive the gifts that God wants Believers to walk in !

Again you are getting worked up over nothing. I don't see how anything I said is scary, just that in my experience I've yet to see tongues with an interpreter. That's literally all I said. And you make a ton of claims (no one likes baldness, paranoid as you are, your scare tactics) but not enough proof to buy me a gum from the 99 cents store. If all Mike was saying is so fake, why don't you counter it with what is true, you are only saying it's fake, but no proof to how it is fake. And God said go into the world and make disciples of all men, not make tongue speakers of all men. Do you beleive salvation lies in tongues? Romans 10:9 contradicts that view as tongues isn't included and is only one of many spiritual gifts.

Commit to backing up your claims with evidence or common sense reasoning all supported by Scripture.

 

[Rookie]

PROOF GOD HEALS BALDNESS. I'm not going to criticize Copeland or others, who pray for baldness ... who knows if someone in a crowd received ! You and I might cringe at the styles/method, but ??? God heals baldness.

Still a what if and not a proven fact.

I know you mentioned your experience, and I respect that, but I'm saying for me I have yet to witness tongues with an interpreter or real healings on the spot. Not saying they don't exist (I in fact believe all spiritual gifts still exist) but I just have yet to see them. No amount of arguing can change that.

 

[hawkman]

1. The funny thing is you can't quite interrupt a service to see why they don't have an interpretor, and many of them addressed that very thing casually as didn't see that it applied to them, but no I haven't.

With the pastor present after church talk to them then . If you can't catch the wild tongue talker before they leave at least talk to the pastor and ask what gives .

And my answer still remains: "Only a believer can use spiritual gifts hence why they are gifts of the Spirit. But I've seen people who deliberately sin or are false teachers/promote hersey, and/or distort the image of Christ, and they have tongues, but he who practices sin isn't of God (1 John 3:5-10)."

It is up to the pastor at that church to weed these things out and if that is not happening confront the pastor after service . And be ready to find a new church to attend if necessary .
Is this an affiliated church or an independent church ? Remember my question ? Exactly where are you looking to see true spiritual gifts . You need to be looking in the right place to see them .

 

[Rookie]

With the pastor present after church talk to them then . If you can't catch the wild tongue talker before they leave at least talk to the pastor and ask what gives .

Alrighty. I'll try.

Exactly where are you looking to see true spiritual gifts . You need to be looking in the right place to see them .

Remember, it's not that I don't believe in spiritual gifts, it's that I have yet to be 100% sure of it's valid use. I know people I believe have spiritual gifts, like tongues, but I don't see an interpreter, and that's a blatant violation of Scripture. Like with prophecy, I've seen false prophecy and a not-so-false one, but I wouldn't be 100% confident in their use.

 

[hawkman]

Alrighty. I'll try.

Maybe you already know this but I would be as diplomatic about it as possible . Say a prayer and ask for the Holy Spirit to supply you the words to say .

Remember, it's not that I don't believe in spiritual gifts, it's that I have yet to be 100% sure of it's valid use. I know people I believe have spiritual gifts, like tongues, but I don't see an interpreter, and that's a blatant violation of Scripture. Like with prophecy, I've seen false prophecy and a not-so-false one, but I wouldn't be 100% confident in their use.

Continue to pray and read the bible that can help in almost any situation .

 

[Elijah777]

Still a what if and not a proven fact.

I know you mentioned your experience, and I respect that, but I'm saying for me I have yet to witness tongues with an interpreter or real healings on the spot. Not saying they don't exist (I in fact believe all spiritual gifts still exist) but I just have yet to see them. No amount of arguing can change that.

Dear Soldiers, thank you for your courteous to my somewhat harsh replies.

THINK ON THIS :

Your problem is that you have to SEE before you believe. If you'd believe first ... then Jesus will show you things you never would have imagined !

Jesus/scripture says to YOU :
Matt. 12.39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
Matt. 16.1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.
Matt. 27.42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.
Luke 16.31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
John 4.48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
John 2.18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
John 20.28 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
1 Cor. 1.22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

John 11.40 Jesus saith unto her ( Soldiers ) , Said I not unto thee ( by My scriptures/word ), that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?

You have to believe BEFORE you SEE man ! Then you'll see Jesus perform miracles in front of you.

This is a sad indictment on us ALL ... why we don't SEE more miracles :

John 5.38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

We want to be like the people ... who believed before they SAW !

Matt. 8.8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.

John 4.50 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

I saw a miracle today ! Why ? I believed something would happen ... if I stepped out on the water ! Without Jesus instructing me how to be a water walker ! He just said: come or rather in this case GO ! God's word saved a young man from an ugly embarrassing certain death ... according to His Word ... which the young man took heed to !

If you care to hear ... I'll tell you ... why would I lie ... and risk the wrath of God ( Prov. 6.16-19 ), ... and I'd have a pretty wild imagination to dream up these events !

 

[Elijah777]

Again you are getting worked up over nothing. I don't see how anything I said is scary, just that in my experience I've yet to see tongues with an interpreter. That's literally all I said. And you make a ton of claims (no one likes baldness, paranoid as you are, your scare tactics) but not enough proof to buy me a gum from the 99 cents store. If all Mike was saying is so fake, why don't you counter it with what is true, you are only saying it's fake, but no proof to how it is fake. And God said go into the world and make disciples of all men, not make tongue speakers of all men. Do you beleive salvation lies in tongues? Romans 10:9 contradicts that view as tongues isn't included and is only one of many spiritual gifts.

Commit to backing up your claims with evidence or common sense reasoning all supported by Scripture.

I did counter Mikes claim. Read my response again !

Mike claims that TOUCH NOT MY ANOINTED .... means nothing more than ... quote : " David is not going to murder Saul ... that's what it means ... SO THE SIMPLE APPLICATION ( of this warning/scripture ) ... is I will not murder other people because I have problems with them " ABSOLUTE HOG WASH ! That's a lame brained explanation and could lead many others to touch people ... they really don't know if they are anointed and may be screwing up ! Again, God ( not man ) uses the Hebrew word ANOINTED TWO times in the ORIGINAL Hebrew It is the the exact same word MESSIAH is translated from. So do you think there is a DEEPER meaning. ? Look it up ( 1 Sam. 26.11 ) https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1sa/26/11/t_conc_262011

Apply Mikes dogma with caution ... its dangerous ! God says so ... even though Saul has been a screw up !

Look at the video again. ... at 8 min. mark ... I'm not blowing smoke at you ... maybe God is trying to tell you something ?

 

[Elijah777]

Still a what if and not a proven fact.

I know you mentioned your experience, and I respect that, but I'm saying for me I have yet to witness tongues with an interpreter or real healings on the spot. Not saying they don't exist (I in fact believe all spiritual gifts still exist) but I just have yet to see them. No amount of arguing can change that.

Honestly, Soldiers .... are you calling the young woman ( Alison ) in the video a LIAR ?

She says God healed her ! Doctors could do nothing ! But when she started to BELIEVE God's word ... BEFORE she saw ( unlike you who needs proof first ) ... her hair started growing. I can send other testimonies ! Are those people lying also ! But you WON"T BELIEVE ! That's your trouble ... its your choice ! God help you ... you don't get sick or worse !

 

[hawkman]

Still a what if and not a proven fact.

I know you mentioned your experience, and I respect that, but I'm saying for me I have yet to witness tongues with an interpreter or real healings on the spot. Not saying they don't exist (I in fact believe all spiritual gifts still exist) but I just have yet to see them. No amount of arguing can change that.

Soldiers , one thing you have to admit is you are still young , I am not lol , 60+ here . I have had much more time to observe the things of the Holy Spirit . Two healings that I did see up close, post from another thread. Hate typing .

Prayer and laying on of hands .
My daughter had an abdominal problem that was going to require surgery . She was prayed for at church and the next day the problem was gone much to the doctor's surprise . My daughter had problems with seizures and many tests were run at one of the region's best hospitals, but they couldn't find the source of her seizures . After my daughter was prayed for at church the seizures never returned . These healings were both before my daughter was of school age .

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Alrighty. I'll try.

Remember, it's not that I don't believe in spiritual gifts, it's that I have yet to be 100% sure of it's valid use. I know people I believe have spiritual gifts, like tongues, but I don't see an interpreter, and that's a blatant violation of Scripture. Like with prophecy, I've seen false prophecy and a not-so-false one, but I wouldn't be 100% confident in their use.

Good luck with speaking with the pastor. I doubt he will do anything as in some circles it is a part of the service like the hymns and announcements. You would have to have a real man of God with some real discernment to deal with a runaway service babbler who gets attention every time they "speak in tongues." Because what I would look for is if the person is looking for attention. And I would ask how this speaking in tongues is edifying anyone as we have no idea what is being said. That you could ask.

The only other thing I wanted to say is that this speaking in tongues is the only important sign to some that they are spirit-filled and if you question it, you might be questioning their being spirit filled and it can cause them to respond in "holy" (in their view) wrath. How dare you question them being filled with the Holy Spirit!!! Obviously the idea that if they were filled with the Holy Spirit they would not mind at a discussion regarding the fake and the real. Those in the Bible who were filled with the Holy Spirit warned people about the fake as it was important to them. Those who regard it as an obvious sign of their spiritual status get angry as it offends their pride. There is a difference.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Soldiers, real gifts of the Holy Spirit are rare in modern American churches. It is just a fact. But what can you do about it? If you want to operate in the gifts of the Holy Spirit yourself, you will need to continue to obey the Holy Spirit in your life and they will be available as you need them and according to your faith. In short, you will need to grow in character and obedience to the Spirit. If you want to be discerning, ask Him to teach you discernment. There are a lot more fakers out there than used to be. Bethel school is openly teaching people how to fake the gifts. No one is teaching how to discern between the real and the fake. Many do not even think there is such a thing as faking it.

 

[Elijah777]

Soldiers, real gifts of the Holy Spirit are rare in modern American churches. It is just a fact. But what can you do about it? If you want to operate in the gifts of the Holy Spirit yourself, you will need to continue to obey the Holy Spirit in your life and they will be available as you need them and according to your faith. In short, you will need to grow in character and obedience to the Spirit. If you want to be discerning, ask Him to teach you discernment. There are a lot more fakers out there than used to be. Bethel school is openly teaching people how to fake the gifts. No one is teaching how to discern between the real and the fake. Many do not even think there is such a thing as faking it.

Wow ! Great instructions from Dorothy ! What gifts are you manifesting ?

That's a bold libelous statement ... "Bethel school is openly teaching people how to fake the gifts" How do you know this ? I wonder, when you get to heaven ... God is going to judge every one of your words ... I wonder how this statement will be judged by Jesus !

 

[Rookie]

@Soldiers , one thing you have to admit is you are still young , I am not lol , 60+ here . I have had much more time to observe the things of the Holy Spirit . Two healings that I did see up close, post from another thread. Hate typing .

Age means nothing to me if you aren't being guided by the Spirit, there are a ton of old people who are foolish, age isn't a magical occurence that qualifies you for anything but alcohol and senior citizenship, otherwise it's what you offer that counts

1 Timothy 4:12 - A Good Minister of Jesus Christ

Let no one despise your youth, but set an example for the believers in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity.

biblehub.com

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Age means nothing to me if you aren't being guided by the Spirit, there are a ton of old people who are foolish, age isn't a magical occurence that qualifies you for anything but alcohol and senior citizenship, otherwise it's what you offer that counts

1 Timothy 4:12 - A Good Minister of Jesus Christ

Let no one despise your youth, but set an example for the believers in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity.

biblehub.com

Good answer. I have seen and experienced so many healings, I lost count. I operate in the word of knowledge and wisdom and if I shared it with other people, without fail, it was always in serving a member of the body of Christ. The Spirit gave me information necessary to relieving their problem. It was never to impress anyone and I’m not impressive in any case.

But I left the first world for some years and worked in the third world where they all KNOW the spiritual is real. They know there is truth and aren’t tainted by the “your truth/my truth” lies. Makes it easier to believe.

 

[hawkman]

Good luck with speaking with the pastor. I doubt he will do anything as in some circles it is a part of the service like the hymns and announcements. You would have to have a real man of God with some real discernment to deal with a runaway service babbler who gets attention every time they "speak in tongues." Because what I would look for is if the person is looking for attention. And I would ask how this speaking in tongues is edifying anyone as we have no idea what is being said. That you could ask.

Luck ?!? Well anyway , which one is a better chance for a resolution to the problem Dorothy Mae , complaining on the internet forums about your church or being proactive in your church ? I took the bold part you said above into consideration see my reply below , the bold part .

It is up to the pastor at that church to weed these things out and if that is not happening confront the pastor after service . And be ready to find a new church to attend if necessary .

Or Soldiers can continue to come on the internet and say .

I have rarely if ever seen true spiritual gifts

If you are in the wrong place your odds of seeing true spiritual gifts in operation are much lower .

 

[hawkman]

Age means nothing to me if you aren't being guided by the Spirit, there are a ton of old people who are foolish, age isn't a magical occurence that qualifies you for anything but alcohol and senior citizenship, otherwise it's what you offer that counts

1 Timothy 4:12 - A Good Minister of Jesus Christ

Let no one despise your youth, but set an example for the believers in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity.

biblehub.com

Do you believe in magic ? Why I was speaking of age is this , I have had many more opportunities to see the things you have not seen the only reason being I am older and location is important too .

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Luck ?!? Well anyway , which one is a better chance for a resolution to the problem Dorothy Mae , complaining on the internet forums about your church or being proactive in your church ?

How is one guy asking the pastor why there are people giving messages “in tongues no one understands” going to
change that? He was asking for input. I told him to seek God and obey. That’s a realistic answer. You think the pastor is going to put an end to unexplained tongues in a pentecostal service because of Soldiers???

I took the bold part you said above into consideration see my reply below , the bold part .

Why? I’m realistic.

Or Soldiers can continue to come on the internet and say .

If you are in the wrong place your odds of seeing true spiritual gifts in operation are much lower .

That’s no where in scripture. Being in the wrong or right geographical location is not paramount. Faith or no faith is.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Do you believe in magic ? Why I was speaking of age is this , I have had many more opportunities to see the things you have not seen the only reason being I am older and location is important too .

Hawkman, I too have seen more than Soldiers but that is not going to help him. If a man wants to see the power of God working through people so he can learn and grow in his faith, what we have seen is not going to be of help. What he sees is the usual pentecostal service with its scheduled message in tongues between the singing and the sermon and he wonders about its being legitimate. It is best if he just take it in stride and himself work on obeying what God wants him to do. He is not answerable to what others in the church do.

 

[Rookie]

Or @Soldiers can continue to come on the internet and say .

???

Do you believe in magic ? Why I was speaking of age is this , I have had many more opportunities to see the things you have not seen the only reason being I am older and location is important too .

I believe magic exists and is a cute name to replace the more biblical and real term called: witchcraft, divination, sorcery, secret arts.

If you are in the wrong place your odds of seeing true spiritual gifts in operation are much lower .

I have been in churches were I was really convinced that it is a bible-believing/following church, just their understanding of gifts idk (which I don't believe is fundamentental) why don't believe never have no interpretor?

true spiritual gifts . You need to be looking in the right place to see them .

Where is that right place, my main concern is there are no interpretors for tongues and no one has shown me an example still. It's like the easier it is to fake the more popular it is, with tongues on top (I do have a unfirmented opinion about what true tongues sound like and have heard when people who speak it like that and believe it probably is true tongues but there is still no interpretor) but ppl can saw whatever they want and call it tongues these days. (Of course it's easier to weed them out because of the church morality). Then healings at second which is a little harder to fake but still doable, then prophecy which is either true, a gamble, or a set up, then the rest I don't even hear of. (No one likes casting out demons although two occasions I have heard from familial churches and I believed what they said).

Honestly, Soldiers .... are you calling the young woman ( Alison ) in the video a LIAR ?

No, but I cannot be quick to believe a youtube video on something as unverifiable as people recieving healing of God. I've seen God's healing power but not someone speaking over me and I'm immediately healed. So I'm not calling her a liar, but I do have to take it with a grain of salt.

There are people who have special ability to know things they could not know, they read the thoughts of others.

People can only do so by spiritual powers because innate flesh cannot do that right? So only by God or demons that prophet prophecied over us.