Spiritual gifts: Unconfusing them

[Elijah777]

My thing is, I have rarely if ever seen true spiritual gifts, I believe they still exist, but don't know of a real representation of them (with one exception).

For example: tongues

It seems like everyone and anyone can speak tongues but there is never an interpreter (which is why I feel that is manipulated because it's the easiest gift to pretend at). I can name about 50 people who can speak tongues that I know, and research in 10 minutes and find 200 more, but not one of them have I ever seen have an interpretor (because I believe you can't quite manipulate that as easily)

So Soldiers, AREN'T YOU basically saying the 50 people you know who say they speak in tongues ... are faking it ... lying to you ?

Hopefully, the 50 you know are sincere Christians ... and have no reason to lie to you ... but more importantly they'd be lying to God ... which I hope/expect they'd be very reluctant to do !

How would you propose to test if someone really speaks in tongues ... while in their prayer closet ... properly using the gift ... according to Paul ( God ) ... when Paul says, they are speaking to God, not to men ... and nobody, not even them understand the language being spoken ?

Yes ... in the case of an interpreter! This supposes, the tongue talker is being lead by Holy Spirit to speak out in public ... and the interpreter, being equally led by Holy Spirit to interpret ... how would you know the tongues and interpretation were legitimate ? Please explain ! Wouldn't you have to believe/hope/turst this is sincere/truthful ?

Many years ago, I attended an Ethiopian church. I was told by Getu ... that another Ethiopian woman from Italy ( Ghenet ) had visited this Ethiopian church in Canada. When this Ghenet woman went to sit down, before the service, she heard another Ethiopian woman ( Almaz ) praying/speaking in Italian ! After the service, Ghenet went to Almaz and began speaking in Italian to Almaz. Almaz was perplexed ... explaining in the Amharic language ( of Ethiopia ), that she didn't understand what Ghenet was saying/speaking. Ghenet questioned Almaz ... then why did I hear you praying/speaking in Italian ? Almaz explained that she was praying/speaking in other tongues before the service began ... and didn't understand what she was saying ... nor did she understand her tongue/Italian ? It was a SIGN for the Ghenet woman, who ... if I remember correctly ... didn't speak in tongues.

As God is my witness, the above is how I remember the woman telling the story. I have inserted Ethiopian names for ease of reference .... I don't really remember the names. God knows the gist of this story is truthful !

Am I supposed to cal Getu a liar ... Ghenet a fake ... Almaz a liar.

Now, since I believe the scriptures ... and trust Getu was an honest woman ... I consider this a real testimony about the supernatural gift of other tongues operating today ... just like it did at Pentecost and thereafter ... up to today !

 

[Iconoclast]

Hawkman, you seem to be nice, sincere Christian, who has had the Pentecost experience of speaking in tongues ... is that correct ? If so, Iconoclast says that's basically a lie ... saying nobody speaks in tongues today.

Nobody ... including me ...claims or intimates ... personal testimonies of how God has moved in situations in my life or those of others ... trump scripture ! But the testimonies are either true or a lie. God knows, not Iconoclast or anyone else, unless they were part of the testimony.

However, for example read Acts 26.1-23, plus Acts 27.9-44 and Acts 28.1-10. Basically this is not doctrinal text ... rather it tells the story of Paul's journey(s) with Jesus ... which I am sure he shared to many other people ... after the event happened. Today we call it Paul's testimony. I dare say, people like Iconoclast would not have believe Paul telling his conversion and/or his harrowing journey to Malta.

Did God stop intervening into people's lives in the 21st century ? Do people not have REAL testimonies today ?

I believe everything in scripture. Do not say i do not.

 

[Elijah777]

I believe everything in scripture. Do not say i do not.

 

[Elijah777]

Follow the thread and what you have said to me.

You said to me ... nobody speaks in tongues today. I believe ... Wolfman's testimony is ... that he said he speaks with other tongues. If that is the case ... I have to believe Wolman at face value ...why would he lie ! Are you calling Wolfman a liar ?

My testimony is that I recieved the Baptism of Holy Spirit in 1985 and spoke with tongues ! Are you calling me a liar ?

I was simply making the point ... you do not believe sincere people on this forum ... when they give their personal testimonies about the Baptism of Holy Spirit and tongues ( plus other testimonies ).

Then why would I think ... you would have believed Paul, if you lived in 37 AD (?) , when Paul gave his testimony to Agrippa (Acts 26.13-14) ! You'd probably say the bright light was crazy ... the healing of blindness was crazy ... etc. Why wouldn't you? You don't believe those things happen today ! There was no book of Acts when Paul gave testimony to Agrippa.

Sorry to say they do ! I've seen them happen right in front of my own eyes !

Frankly, I'm starting to think, you are more like the unbelieving Jews in Acts 14.2 who stirred up the gentiles and poisoned their minds. You poison the minds of Christians, who could otherwise have the Pentecost experience ... in exactly the same way Peter promised the 3000+ Jews in Acts 2.37-39 ! That Promise ( Joel 2, Luke 24.49, Acts 1.5 ) is for all who are afar off and to as many as God has called ( those would be Christians today ). Any logical clear reading of Acts 2.38-39 ... would conclude, the only things the 3000 Jews saw/heard ( Acts 2.12 ) ... which was the 120 speaking in other tongues ( which tongues spoke about God's wonderful works ). So if Peter said the 3000 Jews could have the same thing ... they'd automatically conclude ... we get the Joel promise, which also results in speaking in other tongues we see and hear ! No other way to decipher this. Sorry. Christian today are entitled to same results ... if they believe !

You don't believe Acts 2.39 = that is why you haven't received Joel's promise, nor the accompanying other tongues !

I am sorry ... maybe you're not CALLED ... or, in the best case ... you might (?) be born again ... but refuse to go to the Upper Room !

Hummm ? Are you born again ? Maybe that's where I should have started with ... because that would explain a lot !

 

[hawkman]

Hawkman, you seem to be nice, sincere Christian, who has had the Pentecost experience of speaking in tongues ... is that correct ?

Yes I speak in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance ,and as I found out it can even be your native tongue if that is the language the Holy Spirit needs to deliver the message , I will give the post link in case you missed it . https://christianforums.net/threads/spiritual-gifts-unconfusing-them.96475/page-3#post-1759739

I do pray in tongues (in private) but I have never gave out a message in tongues to a congregation and needed an interpreter .
When I pray in tongues sometimes a melody comes with the words and I sing my prayer .

If so, Iconoclast says that's basically a lie ... saying nobody speaks in tongues today.

Elijah777 ,about all we can do is talk with Iconoclast and show what has been going on in our walk with the Lord and offer our insights into the scripture . As brothers in Christ there should be very strong bond of love one for another and not bickering and back biting . I pray for my brothers that God will lead them in knowledge and truth . God knows I need your prayers too .

 

[hawkman]

My thing is, I have rarely if ever seen true spiritual gifts, I believe they still exist, but don't know of a real representation of them (with one exception).

Where are you looking to see true spiritual gifts ?

 

[Iconoclast]

Follow the thread and what you have said to me.

I know what i have posted. You cannot even quote me accurately.

You said to me ... nobody speaks in tongues today.

That is correct, no one speaks in biblical tongues today.

I believe ... Wolfman's testimony is ... that he said he speaks with other tongues. If that is the case ... I have to believe Wolman at face value ...why would he lie ! Are you calling Wolfman a liar ?

I did not call anyone a liar. . All of you making rhyming noises, are doing that. You are making rhyming noises, but that is not biblical tongues at all.

My testimony is that I recieved the Baptism of Holy Spirit in 1985 and spoke with tongues ! Are you calling me a liar ?

Not only do you not understand what the baptism of the Holy Spirit is, but you do not know what biblical tongues are, or what they were used for. As a result, you and others are living in a make-believe land. One time on another board, i had a person claim that they ran out of gas, but drove 160 miles with no gas because his mother in law prayed in tongues,lol

I was simply making the point ... you do not believe sincere people on this forum

In no place am I instructed to believe unscriptural stories that people offer. I hade a woman tell me that the angel Moroni appeared in her living room and told her the book of mormon was the truth

... w hen they give their personal testimonies about the Baptism of Holy Spirit and tongues ( plus other testimonies ).

Most tell or repeat false teaching that they have been given, and take it as truth.

Then why would I think ... you would have believed Paul, if you lived in 37 AD (?) , when Paul gave his testimony to Agrippa (Acts 26.13-14) !

Because real gifts were taking place over and over, thats why.

You'd probably say the bright light was crazy ... the healing of blindness was crazy ... etc. Why wouldn't you?

I believe scripture, all of it, that's why I know what is claimed today is false.

You don't believe those things happen today !

No...the signs of the Apostles were just that.2cor12:12. Signs and wonders happened by them and those they ministered to.

There was no book of Acts when Paul gave testimony to Agrippa.

correct

Sorry to say they do ! I've seen them happen right in front of my own eyes !

I believe you think so, but they have not. Catholics believe Mary appeared to 3 little girls in Lourdes France...she never did

Frankly, I'm starting to think, you are more like the unbelieving Jews in Acts 14.2 who stirred up the gentiles and poisoned their minds.

Frankly, I know you have no idea what you are talking about.If I want to have you judge me, I will ask you.

You poison the minds of Christians, who could otherwise have the Pentecost experience ... in exactly the same way Peter promised the 3000+ Jews in Acts 2.37-39 !

Another idiotic accusation and false idea. If God were doing such things, they would happen no matter what. I just warn people from falsehoods that people like you post.

That Promise ( Joel 2, Luke 24.49, Acts 1.5 ) is for all who are afar off and to as many as God has called ( those would be Christians today

No one said those verses were not. We just understand the verses, unlike you evidently.
You have no clue what Acts 2:16 means.

Any logical clear reading ogf Acts 2.38-39 ... would conclude, the only things the 3000 Jews saw/heard ( Acts 2.12 ) ... which was the 120 speaking in other tonues ( which tongues spoke about God's wonderful works ). So if Peter said the 3000 Jews could have the same thing ... they'd automatically conclude ... we get the Joel promise, which also results in speaking in other tongues we see and hear ! No other way to decipher this. Sorry. Christian today are entitled to same results ... if they believe !

Your conclusion is unbiblical as I suspected... You do not get Acts2:16, and you do not understand the promise in view in 38-39.

You don't believe Acts 2.39 = that is why you haven't received Joel's promise, nor the accompanying other tongues !

I believe it as written, because you have no idea what it teaches , you continue to suggest error.

I am sorry ... maybe you're not CALLED ... or, in the best case ... you might (?) be born again ... but refuse to go to the Upper Room !

You show no biblical understanding.

 

[Elijah777]

Conclusion, you cannot answer simple question ... are you born again ... according to Jesus' command ... John 3.1-8.

You accuse me of false doctrine and then get mad at me for accusing you of the same. Laugh !

Your quote "That is correct, no one speaks in biblical tongues today." You are calling anyone professing they speak with other tongues today ... is a liar. Come on ... what else are you saying !

I sincerely believe, you need to repent and be born again. No sense continuing with this thread. Sincerely, hope the best of Christ for you !

Goodbye. I won't be replying !

 

[Iconoclast]

Conclusion, you cannot answer simple question ... are you born again ... according to Jesus' command ... John 3.1-8.

You accuse me of false doctrine and then get mad at me for accusing you of the same. Laugh !

Your quote "That is correct, no one speaks in biblical tongues today." You are calling anyone professing they speak with other tongues today ... is a liar. Come on ... what else are you saying !

I sincerely believe, you need to repent and be born again. No sense continuing with this thread. Sincerely, hope the best of Christ for you !

Goodbye. I won't be replying !

You are offering falsehoods, not me. I did not call anyone a liar.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

My thing is, I have rarely if ever seen true spiritual gifts, I believe they still exist, but don't know of a real representation of them (with one exception).

For example: tongues

It seems like everyone and anyone can speak tongues but there is never an interpreter (which is why I feel that is manipulated because it's the easiest gift to pretend at). I can name about 50 people who can speak tongues that I know, and research in 10 minutes and find 200 more, but not one of them have I ever seen have an interpretor (because I believe you can't quite manipulate that as easily)

I agree true spiritual gifts are likely rare in our culture. Probably because of a lack of faith.

 

[Elijah777]

I agree true spiritual gifts are likely rare in our culture. Probably because of a lack of faith.

Yikes. Honestly I don't think you'd believe if you saw the real thing. Soldiers says, that " tongues is the easiest gift to pretend. " Really, go out an try to pretend a miracle or the gift of healing ( sure there are charlatans out their ... that's devil diversion for you ... but God does real miracles today ... you just have your eyes closed ).

When it does happen ... you declare it fake anyways.

Do your home work. Delia Knox was paralyzed in a car accident ... she was in a wheel chair for years ... then this :

Miracle in Mobile? Singer Delia Knox says she can walk again after 22 years thanks to revival

In a video made last Friday, singer Delia Knox is seen walking for the first time in 22 years during a revival at the Arthur R. Outlaw Mobile Convention Center. The revival's spiritual leader says it is just one of many miracles happening in Mobile.

www.al.com

 

[Rookie]

Where are you looking to see true spiritual gifts ?

Only a believer can use spiritual gifts hence why they are gifts of the Spirit. But I've seen people who deliberately sin or are false teachers/promote hersey, and/or distort the image of Christ, and they have tongues, but he who practices sin isn't of God (1 John 3:5-10).

And consequently, these same people never have an interpreter which Paul instructs of (1 Corinthians 14:28) if there is none they are suppose to go into tongues in their head where only God can hear, but they don't. And if your a habitual worker of lawlessness, how can you speak in tongues???

 

[Rookie]

Yikes. Honestly I don't think you'd believe if you saw the real thing. Soldiers says, that " tongues is the easiest gift to pretend. " Really, go out an try to pretend a miracle or the gift of healing ( sure there are charlatans out their ... that's devil diversion for you ... but God does real miracles today ... you just have your eyes closed ).

When it does happen ... you declare it fake anyways.

Do your home work. Delia Knox was paralyzed in a car accident ... she was in a wheel chair for years ... then this :

Miracle in Mobile? Singer Delia Knox says she can walk again after 22 years thanks to revival

In a video made last Friday, singer Delia Knox is seen walking for the first time in 22 years during a revival at the Arthur R. Outlaw Mobile Convention Center. The revival's spiritual leader says it is just one of many miracles happening in Mobile.

www.al.com

Probably if I saw the real thing, I would agree, now one time I encountered at a worship service the pastor who seemed to be prophecying over things in people's lives. And he called me up and when he started his words were alarmingly accurate even to future ideas I had that I rarely expressed outwardly, and when it came to doing things biblically I could see he was serious, then he "coincidentally" called up some folks of mine (and he never met us before) and also prophesied very accurate things too. Although I didn't fall to the ground like some were doing, I did feel like a trembling in my bones when up there, (I don't know because I didn't expect to get called, or it was more).

Now people faked healings too:

 

[hawkman]

Only a believer can use spiritual gifts hence why they are gifts of the Spirit. But I've seen people who deliberately sin or are false teachers/promote hersey, and/or distort the image of Christ, and they have tongues, but he who practices sin isn't of God (1 John 3:5-10).

And consequently, these same people never have an interpreter which Paul instructs of (1 Corinthians 14:28) if there is none they are suppose to go into tongues in their head where only God can hear, but they don't. And if your a habitual worker of lawlessness, how can you speak in tongues???

Did you pull them aside the person who spoke in "tongues" and ask them why there was no interpreter because according to God's word an interpreter should be present ?
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

I still have my question for you .

I have rarely if ever seen true spiritual gifts

Where exactly are you looking to see true spiritual gifts ?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Probably if I saw the real thing, I would agree, now one time I encountered at a worship service the pastor who seemed to be prophecying over things in people's lives. And he called me up and when he started his words were alarmingly accurate even to future ideas I had that I rarely expressed outwardly, and when it came to doing things biblically I could see he was serious, then he "coincidentally" called up some folks of mine (and he never met us before) and also prophesied very accurate things too. Although I didn't fall to the ground like some were doing, I did feel like a trembling in my bones when up there, (I don't know because I didn't expect to get called, or it was more).

So what improvement in your christian walk occurred? This is the test of any experience that comes from God. Does this "miraculous" event result in increasing faith or understanding or improved character (demonstrating more love or patience or kindness or gentleness?) If it was just an experience I would dismiss it. It was a show. There are people who have special ability to know things they could not know, they read the thoughts of others. They do so to impress people. They do not impart something of God to the listeners.

 

[Elijah777]

Only a believer can use spiritual gifts hence why they are gifts of the Spirit. But I've seen people who deliberately sin or are false teachers/promote hersey, and/or distort the image of Christ, and they have tongues, but he who practices sin isn't of God (1 John 3:5-10).

And consequently, these same people never have an interpreter which Paul instructs of (1 Corinthians 14:28) if there is none they are suppose to go into tongues in their head where only God can hear, but they don't. And if your a habitual worker of lawlessness, how can you speak in tongues???

Heresy, where in the Bible do you find your doctrine: ?

if there is none they are suppose to go into tongues in their head where only God can hear

NOWHERE ! The only verse you might twist to come close to this statement is: 1 Cor 14.28.
You flip between its real and fake. So give us an example of REAL TONGUES ... you say:

Only a believer can use spiritual gifts

You're so focused on the FAKES, you can't see the real ... nor have you been Baptized with the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in tongues. Because you so afraid of satan's lies/fakes ... you convince others of your UNBIBLICAL views. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues is for as many as the Lord our God shall call ( Acts 2.39 ). Read and reread Acts 2. The only evidence Joel's promise was fulfilled was that the 3000+ Jews saw the 120 speaking in other tongues. The 3000+ were not in the upper room ... so could not have seen Holy Spirit come UPON the heads of the 120 ( Acts 1.3 ). No, they only saw the 120, after they left the upper room. Peter explained, what the 3000+ SAW/heard ... the other tongues ... was proof/sign that ( Joel 2.28-29, Luke 24.49, Acts 1.5 ) had been fulfilled. When, you finally realize this, you might humble yourself ... and ask Jesus to Baptize you with the Holy Spirit ( like the 120 and the 3000+ Jews who wanted same Joel promise ). You will be surprised with the result ... if you can rid yourself of your unbelief caused by concentrating on fakes or false doctrine.

You're false doctrine and fear tactics, steer honest seeking Believers, who desire the spiritual gifts and who are also told to seek prophecy ( 1 Cor. 14.1 ).

 

[Elijah777]

Probably if I saw the real thing, I would agree, now one time I encountered at a worship service the pastor who seemed to be prophecying over things in people's lives. And he called me up and when he started his words were alarmingly accurate even to future ideas I had that I rarely expressed outwardly, and when it came to doing things biblically I could see he was serious, then he "coincidentally" called up some folks of mine (and he never met us before) and also prophesied very accurate things too. Although I didn't fall to the ground like some were doing, I did feel like a trembling in my bones when up there, (I don't know because I didn't expect to get called, or it was more).

Now people faked healings too:

The above is clear evidence, you're focused on ... what you to believe is fake ( yeah some maybe ).

You don't explain how ... the honest Christian ... can expect God to use them ... receiving real gifts ... then operating them to the benefit of other Believers and the unsaved. To Bad !

I have seen many many testimonies of people who have been bald and after prayer their hair started to grow. In at least 3 cases, the people had alopicia from birth. I personally saw TWO people regrow their hair after prayer ... I saw the before and after ! Why not ? Ultimately, God is still the healer ... not the person praying ! Nobody likes baldness ... God even says its a curse/judgement ( Isa. 3.17, Isa. 3.24, Isa. 15.2 ).

You use Mike Winger above to promote you're SCARE tactics. Winger seems sincere ... but he is as paranoid as you are ABOUT THE REAL GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT ... so winger focuses on so-called ( ? ) fakes to promote his false doctrines ... about such TRUTHS as the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in tongues.

In the video below, WINGER falsely explains, that the real meaning of "TOUCH NOT MY ANOINTED" ( 1 Sam.26.11 ) is nothing more than ... an admonition ... don't go kill someone because you're mad at them.

HOW ABSURD ! GET REAL MIKE WINGER ! The Hebrew word for anointed is the word MASHIACH = Messiah ( https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h4899/kjv/wlc/0-1/ ). Obviously, there is a more serious point being made here by GOD and a real warning TO THE LIKES OF MIKE ... even though Saul had COMMITTED some real "bone-head" sins ... he was still God's anointed. Mike's IGNORANT explanation of 1 Sam. 26.11, is a real poor argument ... to justify him trying to point out "so-called" fakes ( God knows who is --- He can deal with it ). Today's real anointed Christians ... unfortunately make bone-headed mistakes !

Stick to encouraging Christians in REAL Biblical truths and how to receive the gifts that God wants Believers to walk in !

 

[Elijah777]

Soldiers, I perceive you are sincere. Consider this ... if you continue to focus on what you think is false ... it will will develop real unbelief in your spirit. THEN, when you or someone in your family gets side-swiped by the devil ... gets sick etc. ... you won't have the faith to help them ... nor be able to take them to a Christian, who really operates in the GIFTS ... such as healing ... so they can be healed. ( Matt. 13.58 )

If you REALLY believe ... tongues are real ... even today ... and you believe in the proper use of the same ( as described by Paul/God ) can benefit the Christian ... why not ask God for the gift ( see caveat below ) ... you will use it correctly.

( 1 Cor. 14.4 = edify self ) ( 1 Cor. 14.22 = sign for unsaved ). Paul clearly saw it as a benefit ... praying in tongues more than all ( 1 Cor. 14.18 ).

Caveat: Tongues is the evidence someone has been Baptized in the Holy Spirit. So you really need to ask God for the Baptism ( Luke 24.49, Acts 1.5, 8, Acts 1.3,4 ).

 

[Elijah777]

Probably if I saw the real thing, I would agree, now one time I encountered at a worship service the pastor who seemed to be prophecying over things in people's lives. And he called me up and when he started his words were alarmingly accurate even to future ideas I had that I rarely expressed outwardly, and when it came to doing things biblically I could see he was serious, then he "coincidentally" called up some folks of mine (and he never met us before) and also prophesied very accurate things too. Although I didn't fall to the ground like some were doing, I did feel like a trembling in my bones when up there, (I don't know because I didn't expect to get called, or it was more).

Now people faked healings too:

PROOF GOD HEALS BALDNESS. I'm not going to criticize Copeland or others, who pray for baldness ... who knows if someone in a crowd received ! You and I might cringe at the styles/method, but ??? God heals baldness.

 

[Rookie]

Did you pull them aside the person who spoke in "tongues" and ask them why there was no interpreter because according to God's word an interpreter should be present ?
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

I still have my question for you .

Where exactly are you looking to see true spiritual gifts ?

1. The funny thing is you can't quite interrupt a service to see why they don't have an interpretor, and many of them addressed that very thing casually as didn't see that it applied to them, but no I haven't.

And my answer still remains: "Only a believer can use spiritual gifts hence why they are gifts of the Spirit. But I've seen people who deliberately sin or are false teachers/promote hersey, and/or distort the image of Christ, and they have tongues, but he who practices sin isn't of God (1 John 3:5-10)."