Sola Fide is Unbibical Error

[Iconoclast]

You have a site.

Hello W
Yes I do have a site W......https://bibleinteraction.freeforums.net/

Do you hide behind TOS

It is an uncensored site. It is for open exchange of ideas. At the bottom thread on the site, visitors are addressed in this way;https://bibleinteraction.freeforums.net/thread/91/new-visitors-guests
You will never be edited or censored here.
This site is designed to be a place of open exchange before God.
That should keep anyone from lying .
Some of us have been on message boards where people who are supposed to be Christians have openly lied.
I set this board up so a liar and abusive moderator can have no power over you.
If anyone knows how to improve or set the topics up better feel free to jump in.
The second post is similar;
They site is designed to let you ask any questions, or to have free ,unedited, uncensored , posting. Your posts will not be edited or deleted as they are on several other sites..
The members here will attempt to answer you, and challenge what you post, if need be.
We ask that you post responsibly as the eyes of the Lord are in every place beholding the good and the evil.
You will notice some of the links copied and pasted are very long. This is to provide resource material.
Feel free to take a sentence or a paragraph to single out for discussion.
post3;
There is no attempt to re-invent the wheel or, look for novelties here.
An effort is being made to draw from sources both current, and also reaching back to uncover much of the wisdom that was given to those who have gone before us.
Why is that?
Many things we puzzle over in our day has already been wrestled with and forgotten .
We might be unaware of the treasure we have already been given by God by those who went before us. Jump in and look around. feel free to agree or disagree, just be as biblical as you can be and put it out there. Any biblical question, is a good question.
post4;
Individual Posts on any topic in the correct thread will not be edited or deleted.

Posts that are in a wrong thread will be moved or totally deleted as they only disrupt a thread.

This has become necessary as Some have tried to disrupt threads rather than participate freely and unedited

This is the closest thing to a TOS....I do not believe in censorship. Most come to read or listen to the links or sermons. I suggest that because the links I post are often long, I suggest people cut and paste a portion of one of the topics , into the general discussion forum, and we can can have interaction in that place. You are welcome, and despite your views you will be free to express them.

or are they for the purpose of having a civil conversation?

W, as I have said before, I am trying to help. If questions are asked, I try and offer an answer. If a difference is being discussed, it will also be answered. If a person comes in hostile and attacks, that is okay also, but when they get answered, there will be no TOS hiding place. They will be answered openly and honestly.

I'll discuss anything if you come on over to Theology or Apologetics. But will your demeanor hold up?

I am who I am W. if you ask you will get an answer. I do not curse people out. But as scripture says, Open rebuke is better than secret love. If as an ex Rc I get into a debate on the catholic forum, I want the freedom to say what I know is true. I can speak against the Pope, without being told I am violating a TOS. otherwise I am not helping any RC who is bound by such error. they have no trouble answering non Catholics do they?

And why are the reformed so mad all the time?

I and other reformed have been slandered and lied about on several forums. I have been on other forums with thousands of posts, and not censored or ridiculed. One board used to put Calvinists on "coffee break" which meant you were shut down for two days, and then they would try and get us to recant of our beliefs. Eventually a mod there fabricated a post that I never made, posted it, then banned me from the site saying i violated the rules, this is no joke, it happened on 3 other sites as well.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hello W
Yes I do have a site W......https://bibleinteraction.freeforums.net/

It is an uncensored site. It is for open exchange of ideas. At the bottom thread on the site, visitors are addressed in this way;https://bibleinteraction.freeforums.net/thread/91/new-visitors-guests
You will never be edited or censored here.
This site is designed to be a place of open exchange before God.
That should keep anyone from lying .
Some of us have been on message boards where people who are supposed to be Christians have openly lied.
I set this board up so a liar and abusive moderator can have no power over you.
If anyone knows how to improve or set the topics up better feel free to jump in.
The second post is similar;
They site is designed to let you ask any questions, or to have free ,unedited, uncensored , posting. Your posts will not be edited or deleted as they are on several other sites..
The members here will attempt to answer you, and challenge what you post, if need be.
We ask that you post responsibly as the eyes of the Lord are in every place beholding the good and the evil.
You will notice some of the links copied and pasted are very long. This is to provide resource material.
Feel free to take a sentence or a paragraph to single out for discussion.
post3;
There is no attempt to re-invent the wheel or, look for novelties here.
An effort is being made to draw from sources both current, and also reaching back to uncover much of the wisdom that was given to those who have gone before us.
Why is that?
Many things we puzzle over in our day has already been wrestled with and forgotten .
We might be unaware of the treasure we have already been given by God by those who went before us. Jump in and look around. feel free to agree or disagree, just be as biblical as you can be and put it out there. Any biblical question, is a good question.
post4;
Individual Posts on any topic in the correct thread will not be edited or deleted.

Posts that are in a wrong thread will be moved or totally deleted as they only disrupt a thread.

This has become necessary as Some have tried to disrupt threads rather than participate freely and unedited

This is the closest thing to a TOS....I do not believe in censorship. Most come to read or listen to the links or sermons. I suggest that because the links I post are often long, I suggest people cut and paste a portion of one of the topics , into the general discussion forum, and we can can have interaction in that place. You are welcome, and despite your views you will be free to express them.

W, as I have said before, I am trying to help. If questions are asked, I try and offer an answer. If a difference is being discussed, it will also be answered. If a person comes in hostile and attacks, that is okay also, but when they get answered, there will be no TOS hiding place. They will be answered openly and honestly.

I am who I am W. if you ask you will get an answer. I do not curse people out. But as scripture says, Open rebuke is better than secret love. If as an ex Rc I get into a debate on the catholic forum, I want the freedom to say what I know is true. I can speak against the Pope, without being told I am violating a TOS. otherwise I am not helping any RC who is bound by such error. they have no trouble answering non Catholics do they?


I and other reformed have been slandered and lied about on several forums. I have been on other forums with thousands of posts, and not censored or ridiculed. One board used to put Calvinists on "coffee break" which meant you were shut down for two days, and then they would try and get us to recant of our beliefs. Eventually a mod there fabricated a post that I never made, posted it, then banned me from the site saying i violated the rules, this is no joke, it happened on 3 other sites as well.

You delete disruptive threads.
That's censorship.
We don't censor either.
What you don't seem to understand is that it doesn't matter what you post,,,,it's a members behavior that matters. I think we have a good forum here.

Catholics are also misrepresented. Guess it gets frustrating. You've called me a liar many times. Is that a nice thing to do? You don't know all the chances we've given you.

It's good you have a site.
Do you treat non cals nicely?
I hope so.

 

[Iconoclast]

You delete disruptive threads.

The threads were not deleted, but moved into a different spot, fully intack. there was a person who kept quoting the heretic charles finney, in several threads, for example he would post in a thread about baptism, things finney taught about the church that had nothing to do with the baptsim. So they were deleted from the baptism thread, and posted in the controversial posts thread.

That's censorship.

so no, there was no censorship, the posts are still there in a place where they are not disrupting the flow of the threads.
If a thread is on foreknowledge, we are not going to have posts about the rapture in the middle of a thread.

We don't censor either.

yes you do,lol It has happened to me several times, posts removed

What you don't seem to understand is that it doesn't matter what you post,,,,it's a members behavior that matters. I think we have a good forum here.

This forum is okay. I see things about it that are weak, but no one is asking me.

Catholics are also misrepresented. Guess it gets frustrating. You've called me a liar many times. Is that a nice thing to do?

W....you might think of it as not lying, but some of your conduct says one thing, and does another

You don't know all the chances we've given you.

I think the way some of the TOS rules are used subjectively is a convenient way to manipulate things. If a person asks me a pointed question and I give a direct answer, to be told I am in violation.
If a mormon says Jesus is satans half brother, I respond sharply to such heresy, then someone says, that is a violation, that is where it is a problem.

It's good you have a site.
Do you treat non cals nicely?

Many people who are my friends started out as non cals.
I get many people who visit, not so many who post. There is no requirement for anyone to be reformed or anything else. The design is to be open and present truth to edify people. there is little to no arguing as most do not read through long links. those who do enjoy the teaching. If you look where it says controversial teaching, many of the disruptive posts were offered by one person. I asked him to reply in the appropriate forum and he would not. So i transfered his posts to that place, to keep the threads on topic. The other administrator wanted me to throw him off, but I told him, no, we will just deal with him without throwing him off.

I hope so.

YOU will not be thrown off, you can post what you want, just remember i often posts long links, so know before you go

 

[SolaScriptura]

Hello SS, you seem to answer your own question

That shows where the people will be found, worldwide.It does nothing to show who they are.


Here you go...The text limits it to "everyone believing", every believing one....That is not every person ever born as you try and imply. The gospel is offered to all, but all have no intention to come.


The elect were chosen before time. As they are effectually drawn by the Spirit to hear the gospel they do believe. Nice and simple.


Yes, he understood the verse. many in our day do not understand.

We do not have to make anything. ONLY THOSE ELECTED WILL BELIEVE. No one stops the others from believing. They do not want to believe. They hate the bible God, and suppress His truth.






Jesus owns the right to everyman.He saves All the Father gave to HimJn17:1-3, Jn 6:37-44. The only thing that is absurd, is your idea that any elect perish as Peter tells as as Jesus did that God is not willing that any elect perish 2Pet.3:9

So what? That comes down to the same exact thing...Everyone believing

That also comes out to the same exact thing. Offered to all, believed by the elect, worldwide.

The free offer is given, not all men are IN CHRIST

All the sins of all men are not atoned for. The atonement is for those who believe, everyone believing,jn.8
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

The whole human race is not going to be saved.

Judas partook in an unworthy manner ,like some in 1cor.11

Duly noted. Thanks for the fine questions.

the Death of Jesus Christ is for "everyone without exception", which is the very language that John Calvin uses on this verse, who is supposed to be the "father" of "Calvinism"!

This is NOT "Universalism", the anti Bible heresy that everyone will be save in the end.

It is very clear from the context of John 3:16-18, that ONLY those who "believe", which includes repenting from sins, will be saved. Those who do not, will be damned eternally. This is the very simple Gospel Message!

 

[SolaScriptura]

The word kosmos does not say all men are elect.

Who said that it does? It means, the WHOLE OF THE HUMAN RACE, EVERY SINGLE SINNER, even Judas.

 

[SolaScriptura]

No one makes that conclusion, nobody. It is foolish to make such a claim.

No one says that. The everyone believing, refers to the elect. Glad to help you sort that out.

so then you believe that Jesus Died for the whole human race, with zero exceptions?

 

[SolaScriptura]

Well, the assumption I make is that "kosmos" mean Gentiles as well as the default Jews. So dealing witht he rest of you theories is futile. The crux of the matter is that "kosmos" is ambiguous and we should seek doctrinal clarity elsewhere. You said:

... and I gave 3 or 4 verses to show you incorrect and offered 70 more .... so move on from a verse (John 3:16) that is ambiguous to scripture that is clear.



...as I said, I don't believe "kosmos" means elect so there is no reason to go further down that road.

this means that Jesus Christ Died for EVERY SINGLE SINNER, even those who will be damned!

 

[SolaScriptura]

You set the false premise that I believe "kosmos" to means "the elect" and then, based on your false premise, come to the conclusion I have folly.

The crux of the matter is whether GOD CHOOSES US, OR WE INDEPENDENT OF GOD CHOOSE HIM.
Instead of using the ambiguous verse John 3:16 (for which I am too lazy to show it can't mean everyone with exception) ... why don't you deal with the explicit verses that states GOD CHOOSES US.

Long list of verses to deal with follow:
Note: Scripture uses: Elect, chosen, appointed, predestination, “known by God”, foreknowledge, sheep ... all of which as synonyms for CHOSE (aside: I could list more verses but only 10,000 chars)

Psalm 65:4 Blessed is the one whom You choose and bring near to dwell in Your courts. We will be filled with the goodness of Your house, Your holy temple.

John 6:37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. [the action is the Father giving to the Son; believers are not involved in the transaction save their coming is the result of the Father’s action][Counter argument: Perhaps the reason for the father’s gift is the choice of men. Salvation is dependent upon giving; one does not give because one foresees faith]
John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But [still] some of you fail to believe and trust and have faith. For Jesus knew from the first who did not believe and had no faith and who would betray Him and be false to Him. 65 And he said, “This [referring to “some of you fail to believe in verse 64] is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted [that is, unless he is enabled to do so] him by the Father.”

John 8:47 Whoever is of God and belongs to Him hears [the truth of] God’s words; for this reason you do not hear them: because you are not of God and you are not in fellowship with Him.”
John 10:15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father—and I lay down My [very own] life [sacrificing it] for the benefit of the sheep.
John 12:39-40 “They could not believe, because Isaiah said again: “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they should see with their eyes, lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, so that I should heal them.” Matthew 13:14-15; Isaiah 6:9-10 – God hardens and blinds some men so they cannot understand

Seven times Jesus speaks of believers as given to Him by the Father. John 17:2; 6 twice; 9, 11, 12, 24

John 13:18 I am not speaking of all of you; I know whom I have chosen. But the Scripture will be fulfilled, ‘He who ate my bread has lifted his heel against me.’

John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I [Jesus] chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. … and by extension, all Christians … Arminian: "You have 'chosen' me only because you know that I would choose you, so that my will logically precedes and determines your will!" He says, "If conversion is necessary, then by my will I will turn against my wickedness, even my own evil will, by my might I will escape from Satan's hold and sin's grip, and by my power I will turn to Christ and permit him to save me, as if I need him at all." Vincent Cheung

John 15:19b but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
John 17:2; 6, 11, 12, 24 Seven times Jesus speaks of believers as given to Him by the Father.
John 17:9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. [Counter argument: Perhaps the reason for the father’s gift is the choice of men]

Acts 9:15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for this man is a [deliberately] chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; The conversion of Paul was of God and not from his acknowledgement and belief of those he persecuted.

Acts 4:28 to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined [before the creation of the world] to occur [and so without knowing it, they served Your own purpose].

Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed (decided on beforehand; designated) for eternal life believed.

Acts 15:14 'Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles to take out of
them a people for His name."

Acts 17:26 "And He made from one, every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times, and the boundaries of their habitation." Since God plans where people will live and knows billions will live in areas that never hear the salvific gospel, God has determined these people to be among the unelect.

Acts 18:27 When Apollos wanted to go to Achaia, the brothers encouraged him and wrote to the disciples there to welcome him. On arriving, he was a great help to those who by grace had believed.

Acts 22:10 And I asked, ‘What shall I do, Lord?’ And the Lord answered me, ‘Get up and go into Damascus. There you will be told all that is appointed and destined for you to do.’

NONE of these passages say that Jesus Christ Died only for the "elect", but the WHOLE OF THE HUMAN RACE!

 

[GodsGrace]

NONE of these passages say that Jesus Christ Died only for the "elect", but the WHOLE OF THE HUMAN RACE!

Believing that Jesus died only for those saved is limiting the power of the Sovereign God.

The entire human race was sold to satan.
The entire human race was bought back by Jesus.

 

[SolaScriptura]

The entire human race was sold to satan

what do you mean by this, and is there any Scripture?

 

[GodsGrace]

what do you mean by this, and is there any Scripture?

Do you know the different theories of atonement?
The Ransom Theory

 

[SolaScriptura]

Do you know the different theories of atonement?
The Ransom Theory

which is HERESY!

 

[GodsGrace]

which is HERESY!

Why?
Didn't Adam cause the entire race to fall because he was the federal head of humanity?
We're born with the sin nature.
We're lost to satan unless we become born again.

There are more theories.
Guess you don't like that one.

Jesus redeems us.
From what?

 

[Fastfredy0]

this means that Jesus Christ Died for EVERY SINGLE SINNER, even those who will be damned!

If so, Christ died for NOTHING; he died in vain for the most part.
But as I said, the word WORLD is ambiguous and you simply use it to suit your purposes. I gave 30 verses showing God chose us and you gave 1 ambiguous verse. *yawn*

 

[SolaScriptura]

If so, Christ died for NOTHING; he died in vain for the most part.
But as I said, the word WORLD is ambiguous and you simply use it to suit your purposes. I gave 30 verses showing God chose us and you gave 1 ambiguous verse. *yawn*

It always interests me when the "Reformed" get selective in the Bible passages they use, to try and "prove" their THEORIES, but OMIT those passages that are AGAINST their "theology"!

John 6:66-71

“From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered Him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray Him, being one of the twelve”

Here Jesus is speaking to the 12, including Judas, and says to ALL OF THEM, "Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?". Note that the word CHOSEN, is the SAME Greek word, "ἐκλέγομαι", which is also used in John 15:16, 19, etc. Jesus did CHOOSE Judas, with the other 11, but he by his OWN CHOICE, betrayed Jesus Christ. This does not mean that Judas was ever saved, but the fact that one who is CHOSEN by God Himself, can and did get LOST in hell!

 

[Iconoclast]

It always interests me when the "Reformed" get selective in the Bible passages they use, to try and "prove" their THEORIES, but OMIT those passages that are AGAINST their "theology"!

John 6:66-71

“From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered Him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray Him, being one of the twelve”

Here Jesus is speaking to the 12, including Judas, and says to ALL OF THEM, "Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?". Note that the word CHOSEN, is the SAME Greek word, "ἐκλέγομαι", which is also used in John 15:16, 19, etc. Jesus did CHOOSE Judas, with the other 11, but he by his OWN CHOICE, betrayed Jesus Christ. This does not mean that Judas was ever saved, but the fact that one who is CHOSEN by God Himself, can and did get LOST in hell!

The nation of Israel was chosen as a group, but only an elect remnant was chosen for salvation. All such attempts to look for loopholes and tricks to avoid scripture are futile. Rom9:6-11

 

[Iconoclast]

The nation of Israel was chosen as a group, but only an elect remnant was chosen for salvation. All such attempts to look for loopholes and tricks to avoid scripture are futile. Rom9:6-11

NONE of these passages say that Jesus Christ Died only for the "elect", but the WHOLE OF THE HUMAN RACE!

Those who are saved, get saved, are the elect. Jesus died a perfect atonement on their behalf. Not one more, not one less will be saved

 

[SolaScriptura]

Those who are saved, get saved, are the elect. Jesus died a perfect atonement on their behalf. Not one more, not one less will be saved

Only according to so called "Reformed" theology which is not what the Bible actually teaches

 

[Iconoclast]

Only according to so called "Reformed" theology which is not what the Bible actually teaches

Sorry you cannot see it yet, but it is not going anywhere! you still can learn about it. These truths are the core of bible teaching. It is not The "so called reformed" as you put it who can only see it. This is basic Christian truth.

 

[SolaScriptura]

The nation of Israel was chosen as a group, but only an elect remnant was chosen for salvation. All such attempts to look for loopholes and tricks to avoid scripture are futile. Rom9:6-11

John 3.16-18 is against what you are saying