By faith

[GodsGrace]

If someone is holding a gun to your head saying they will kill you unless another person is willing to come forth and be killed in your place , and behold someone who loves you dearly comes forth and takes your place to be killed in your stead, What good deed could be performed to cause that person who loves you to GIVE their life in your place ?

What good deed could ever be performed as a gun is being held to your head to cause another to take your place?

You asked, and this is exactly how Jesus describes the transaction of salvation that takes place between a person and God .

Mat 20:28
Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Jesus had to be sacrificed so that mankind could be b ought back from satan.
Also, God received a just satisfaction for an egregious wrong that had been done to Him ... the creator of the universe.

Your post above has nothing to do with the OP's queston.

 

[GodsGrace]

" reward" does not mean salvation.
Salvation is a gift, not a reward .


Eph 2:8
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God"

CL
I think you need to start a new thread on the reason Jesus died for us.
Please do not derail this thread as per the OP's request.
Please make sure you understand what his topic is.
Thanks.

 

[GodsGrace]

First one must define FAITH ALONE.
Faith Alone means we are saved by our Faith as opposed to Faith + Works as the Roman Catholics teach.
Faith Alone does not mean that there are not other aspects to our salvation like Christ's death or God's purpose.
Furthermore, although we are save by Faith Alone said salvific faith is always accompanied by works; said works are NOT the cause of our salvation; rather, the effect of our salvation.


Romans 4:4–5
Galatians 2:16
Romans 3:28
Romans 4:5
Ephesians 2:8
Philippians 3:9
Galatians 5:2-6 warns those who think they are save by their works ... 4 You have been severed from Christ, if you seek to be justified [that is, declared free of the guilt of sin and its penalty, and placed in right standing with God] through the Law; you have fallen from grace [for you have lost your grasp on God’s unmerited favor and blessing].

The Law is different from works.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Here where I disagree: I am not saved by faith alone neither by work alone. Together like chain you can't separate them.

?????
How is one saved? All you did was list things that don't save you which left me confused.

I asked if GOD, the prophets or Jesus taught such thing.
What I mean, if the doctrine very important, then why was not revealed by GOD, the prophets or Jesus ?

I gave 6 or 7 scriptures ... scripture represents God's wishes ... therefore God has revealed we are save by Faith Alone (not works).

 

[Fastfredy0]

The Law is different from works.

Yeah, so ????

The law difficult to define as it used different in various parts of scripture .... as for works: in the past you didn't agree with the dictionary definition of WORKS so your statement about the ambiguous word LAW and the word WORKS that you can't define makes your statement of little value.

Definitions
Re: Law
Nomos (Law) is used in the New Testament in a number of senses, much like its English equivalent. In a negative sense, it sometimes refers to legalism, the strict, self-dependent trust in one’s own efforts to perform to the level of divine morality (see Luke 18:9). Sometimes it refers to the commandments and ceremonial rituals prescribed by God in the Old Covenant through Moses. Sometimes it refers simply to divine standards in general. Sometimes it refers to the entire body of Scripture that God had revealed before the time of Christ, what we now call the Old Testament. Sometimes it is a synonym for a general principle or rule. In interpreting the New Testament, therefore, the specific meaning must be determined from the context. John MacArthur – New Testament Commentary

Re: Works
Dr. Google's definition of works: Physical or mental effort or activity directed toward the production or accomplishment of something.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Jesus had to be sacrificed so that mankind could be b ought back from satan.
Also, God received a just satisfaction for an egregious wrong that had been done to Him ... the creator of the universe.

Your post above has nothing to do with the OP's queston.

Christ gave the gift of His life for ours.
The required ransom of His sinless life for our sinful ones
And gave the gift of Himself unconditionally because of His Love.
No deed or work required !
That is the exact scenario I described as well as speaking to what other than faith is needed to receive His Gift of Himself.

If someone is holding a gun to your head saying they will kill you unless another person is willing to come forth and be killed in your place , and behold someone who loves you dearly comes forth and takes your place to be killed in your stead, What good deed could be performed to cause that person who loves you to GIVE their life in your place ?
This is exactly how Jesus describes the transaction of salvation that takes place between a person and God .

Mat 20:28
Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yeah, so ????

The law difficult to define as it used different in various parts of scripture .... as for works: in the past you didn't agree with the dictionary definition of WORKS so your statement about the ambiguous word LAW and the word WORKS that you can't define makes your statement of little value.

Definitions
Re: Law
Nomos (Law) is used in the New Testament in a number of senses, much like its English equivalent. In a negative sense, it sometimes refers to legalism, the strict, self-dependent trust in one’s own efforts to perform to the level of divine morality (see Luke 18:9). Sometimes it refers to the commandments and ceremonial rituals prescribed by God in the Old Covenant through Moses. Sometimes it refers simply to divine standards in general. Sometimes it refers to the entire body of Scripture that God had revealed before the time of Christ, what we now call the Old Testament. Sometimes it is a synonym for a general principle or rule. In interpreting the New Testament, therefore, the specific meaning must be determined from the context. John MacArthur – New Testament Commentary

Re: Works
Dr. Google's definition of works: Physical or mental effort or activity directed toward the production or accomplishment of something.

You're very close to being banned from this thread.
You should really read the TOS.

 

[GodsGrace]

Christ gave the gift of His life for ours.
The required ransom of His sinless life for our sinful ones
And gave the gift of Himself unconditionally because of His Love.
No deed or work required !
That is the exact scenario I described as well as speaking to what other than faith is needed to receive His Gift of Himself.

If someone is holding a gun to your head saying they will kill you unless another person is willing to come forth and be killed in your place , and behold someone who loves you dearly comes forth and takes your place to be killed in your stead, What good deed could be performed to cause that person who loves you to GIVE their life in your place ?
This is exactly how Jesus describes the transaction of salvation that takes place between a person and God .

Mat 20:28
Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Are you saying that a person JUST HAS TO BELIEVE in Jesus and he'll be saved, with NOTHING added?

Could you explain what the word BELIEVE means in the Greek language that was used for the writing of the NT?

Are you also saying that Jesus left us with no commands to follow...
No works to do....
No teachings....

What did Jesus mean in
Matthew 28:19? WHAT did He teach the Apostles??
19“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you...


1. What is a disciple?
2. What did Jesus command?
3. What were the Apostles supposed to teach?

 

[Consecrated Life]

Are you saying that a person JUST HAS TO BELIEVE in Jesus and he'll be saved, with NOTHING added?

The subject is what will your FAITH Alone that Jesus has died for your sins accomplish , if anything ?
You obviously believe that much more than having faith that your sins are covered by His Blood must be done not to be hell doomed.
So this being what you espouse, I am curious where you are at in your timeline to eventually being saved one day ?
Or if you are saved already how many months , years did it take you after you first came to faith to fully accomplish your salvation ?
Did you make it last year , or long before that ?
Or are you hoping to finish your requirements this year .
I have never heard anyone who believes as you or Tempo detail what length of time , or what number of works need to be credited to a person before they can be worry free of being hell doomed ?
I'm sure you have got others interested to know if they are still at risk or not as well .
Please explain so we can know how much more progress we need to secure our salvation ?

Luk 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

 

[GodsGrace]

The subject is what will your FAITH Alone that Jesus has died for your sins accomplish , if anything ?
You obviously believe that much more than having faith that your sins are covered by His Blood must be done not to be hell doomed.
So this being what you espouse, I am curious where you are at in your timeline to eventually being saved one day ?
Or if you are saved already how many months , years did it take you after you first came to faith to fully accomplish your salvation ?
Did you make it last year , or long before that ?
Or are you hoping to finish your requirements this year .
I have never heard anyone who believes as you or Tempo detail what length of time , or what number of works need to be credited to a person before they can be worry free of being hell doomed ?
I'm sure you have got others interested to know if they are still at risk or not as well .
Please explain so we can know how much more progress we need to secure our salvation ?

Luk 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

CL
I'll be happy to reply to all your questions....
As soon as you reply to mine.
Thanks.

 

[Consecrated Life]

CL
I'll be happy to reply to all your questions....
As soon as you reply to mine.
Thanks.

could you repeat your question for me please?

 

[GodsGrace]

Fastfredy0

YOU ARE BANNED FROM THIS THREAD FOR A 3 DAY PERIOD.
BREAKING TOS 1.1, 1.3 AND 1.5

USE TALK WITH STAFF IF NECESSARY.
FAMILIARIZE YOURSELF WITH OUR TERMS OF SERVICE.

DO NOT REPLY TO A MODERATOR IN AN OPEN THREAD....
GROUNDS FOR IMMEDIATE BAN FROM FORUM.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Hebrews 11:1-2 Now Faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain (the evidence) of what we do not see. This is what the ancients were commended for. By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

Romans 1:20-21 For since the creation of the God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

John 3:19-21 This is the verdict: Light has come into the , but men loved darkness instead of the light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

So (faith) is everything! I absolutely hate the saying "blind faith". It reminds me of when Jesus says "the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch". Faith is the evidence of the unseen, the power behind all that is! You shouldn't have faith in something you are not certain in. God says that people have to purposely be ignoring the truth. The reason, they want to do their will and not the will of God. If you are walking in faith, you are doing the will of the almighty........cause this is what we were created "to do".....

 

[GodsGrace]

Hebrews 11:1-2 Now Faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain (the evidence) of what we do not see. This is what the ancients were commended for. By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

Romans 1:20-21 For since the creation of the God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

John 3:19-21 This is the verdict: Light has come into the , but men loved darkness instead of the light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

So (faith) is everything! I absolutely hate the saying "blind faith". It reminds me of when Jesus says "the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch". Faith is the evidence of the unseen, the power behind all that is! You shouldn't have faith in something you are not certain in. God says that people have to purposely be ignoring the truth. The reason, they want to do their will and not the will of God. If you are walking in faith, you are doing the will of the almighty........cause this is what we were created "to do".....

Our faith is not blind.
It is based on testimony of persons that lived with Jesus.
It's based on reason.

You're right. Blind means we're just groping around in the dark.
God has revealed Himself to us in different ways....the last revelation, Jesus.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Our faith is not blind.
It is based on testimony of persons that lived with Jesus.
It's based on reason.

You're right. Blind means we're just groping around in the dark.
God has revealed Himself to us in different ways....the last revelation, Jesus.

Yep, testimony then/now........

And I would say reason to someone who is honest with themselves, it's not natural to "love your enemy".....therefore supernatural. That is just one example of the honest evaluation of our situation on earth.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yep, testimony then/now........

And I would say reason to someone who is honest with themselves, it's not natural to "love your enemy".....therefore supernatural. That is just one example of the honest evaluation of our situation on earth.

The Holy Spirit brings us to many supernatural events/works/deeds, call it what you will, that we could not do of our own strength.

Was it you that stated: We can do nothing of ourselves....
John 15:5 (?)

 

[GodsGrace]

could you repeat your question for me please?

Hi CL,
Please see my post no. 28.

I underlined the questions.

But will reply tomorrow...late here.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Are you saying that a person JUST HAS TO BELIEVE in Jesus and he'll be saved, with NOTHING added?

If by , "just believe" in Jesus ? , you mean accepting His gift of eternal life through His atonement for sins by His death upon the cross then , YES , nothing else can accomplish a persons salvation, and nothing else is required to be saved.

Could you explain what the word BELIEVE means in the Greek language that was used for the writing of the NT?

No I am not familiar with the Greek.

Are you also saying that Jesus left us with no commands to follow...
No works to do....
No teachings....

I never said any such thing.

What did Jesus mean in
Matthew 28:19? WHAT did He teach the Apostles??
19“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you...

Present the gospel to all those you meet.

1. What is a disciple?

A disciple is someone who accepts the responsibility of their salvation .
Willing that their personality has now become God's instrument

2. What did Jesus command?

All His commands are condensed in what He called the First and the Greatest Commandments
Mar 12:30
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Mar 12:31
And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

 

[LovethroughDove]

The Holy Spirit brings us to many supernatural events/works/deeds, call it what you will, that we could not do of our own strength.

Was it you that stated: We can do nothing of ourselves....
John 15:5 (?)

I don't think it was me who said it I agree with your statement

 

[Free]

Is the doctrine of "by faith alone you're save" Biblical?

You should first define what you mean by “saved.” We are justified by grace alone through faith alone.

Did God, the Prophets or Jesus taught such doctrine?

Jesus did:

Jhn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
Jhn 3:15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
Jhn 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Jhn 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Jhn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. (ESV)

And Paul did:

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. (ESV)
So, both Jesus and Paul, which means God did as well.

Works don’t save anyone, otherwise the Law would have been all we needed. Works are only evidence of our faith. If someone professes to be a follower of Christ isn’t doing good works and, especially, isn’t that interested in doing good works, then their salvation is suspect.

Believers will still be judged for their works but to determine reward, not salvation.

1Co 3:12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw—
1Co 3:13 each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.
1Co 3:14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. (ESV)


2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil. (ESV)

Also, Matt 25:14-30.