Army of Angels Return with Christ

[for_his_glory]

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Ecc 12:7 then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Let me start here with these three passages from scripture that show it is only our breath that returns back to God when we physically die as no one has ever ascended up to heaven after they died. It's only our breath/spirit that returns back to God.

Continuing with these scriptures below, especially 1Thessalonians 4:14, will God bring with him. When Christ returns with the clouds and His army of angels from heaven, Rev 19:11-21, Jesus then sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather all His own to Him. Jesus will raise the dead first as even those who pierced Him will see Him coming with the clouds and then we who are Christ own, which are still alive at His coming, will be changed and then we are all caught up to the clouds to meet Jesus in the air as we return with Him in our new glorified bodies in which we do not know what we will be like, other than we will be like Christ in His glorified body.


Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

 

[hawkman]

Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Do you believe "armies" in this verse means angels ?

 

[RandyK]

Let me start here with these three passages from scripture that show it is only our breath that returns back to God when we physically die as no one has ever ascended up to heaven after they died. It's only our breath/spirit that returns back to God.

When our bodies die, they return to the elements. When we are resurected, the angels do not gather our physical dust--those elements are reused in other bodies and things. To be resurrected is simply to be reconstructed. It is making use of our original spiriits and identies to inhabit *brand new* bodies.

So when the saint of God dies, his or her spirit returns to God, whle the physical body is terminated. But this has nothing to do with the inability to "ascend to God" in physical bodies as Jesus mentioned.

Jesus was speaking, I believe, of the inability of men to rise to God of their own ability. Only Jesus could ascend to God of his own free will, since he was divine.

Clearly, Elijah physically ascended into heaven. But he did not ascend of his own volition and power. And that's what I think Jesus was saying, making a distinction between God's power and the limitations of our own human power.

Rom 10.6 But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down)."

I think you may be right that people will not rise, in the Rapture, to heaven in their physical bodies. I think it is possible that when God's angels gather us at the Rapture our bodies will instantly disintegrate, simply because physical, mortal bodies must instantly transform in order to exist in space, or in the upper atmosphere (without planes).

When Jesus described, in his Olivet Discourse, that angels would gather God's People, he was describing how Israel would be regathered while they were still alive. That is the Rapture.

Today, this promise has been extended to all nations--not just to Israel. God will send his angels to gather all of the living saints, transforming them into new, immortal bodies so that we may live with God forever.

 

[for_his_glory]

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Breath = living soul

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Can not kill the soul for that is the very breath that goes back to God when we die. Our soul can never die and is preserved until Gods final judgment at the end of time. It is that breath of God breathed into us that made a living soul. Breath = living soul.

No one has ever entered the third Heaven where God sits on His throne. Third Heaven is where God and the holy angels and spirits (souls) of just men dwell. It is called “The heaven of heavens,” Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalms 115:16; 148:4; 1Kings 8:27; Psalms 2:4.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (soul) shall return unto God who gave it.
Ruach, the Hebrew word for spirit here, means "breath" or "wind" as well as "spirit".

1John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Luke 24:33-53 We see that Jesus had flesh and bone and did eat with the Disciples, but now the flesh was glorified. Just as we will see Jesus the way he ascended into Heaven is the same way we too will be resurrected from the grave if we are not alive when Christ returns, which gives the saying in 1Corinthians 15:55 it's meaning. This body will have put on immortality and become an incorruptible body.

1Corinthians 15 we are resurrected into a spiritual body that scripture does not give detail what we will look like, but will be like that of Christ glorified body.

 

[for_his_glory]

Enoch, Moses, Abraham and Elijah were not taken up to the third Heaven as some teach as when they were seen (not Enoch or Abraham) of Peter, James and John in Matthew 17:1-9 it was only a transfiguration like a vision that they saw Jesus transfigured as was Moses and Elijah. There is no one in the third heaven except God, Jesus and the angels, John 3:13. Everyone that has ever died is asleep in their grave and when Christ returns they will hear His voice as He calls all of them to come forth, they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation, John 5:28, 29. It is only our spirit/breath/soul that goes back to God who gave it, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7.

2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. (Heaven here means atmosphere, first heaven)

Elijah, having ascended into the air by a whirlwind was carried away out of sight beyond the horizon. Several years after he was taken away King Jehoram received a letter from him. How long after? There are some difficulties in figuring the exact chronology as it varies from 2 to 10 years or more. A note in Josephus (a Jewish historian of the first century A.D.) says 4 years, while the JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA figures it at 7 years.

Regardless of the exact number of years there came writing to Jehoram from Elijah the prophet, saying..." (2Chron 21:12). Now the wickedness of Jehoram, for which he was being rebuked in the letter, took place after Elijah was taken away, yet the letter speaks of these things as past events, and the punishment to come upon him as yet future. So the idea of some, that Elijah wrote the letter before he was removed by the whirlwind, is proved wrong.

Elijah was taken up by the whirlwind into the first heaven and transported to another location on Earth. God did not see fit in His purpose to reveal his whereabouts. Chariot of fire is used at times figuratively for host (angels) like in 2 Kings 2:11, 12: 6:17; Psalms 68:17; 104:1-4. Elijah, by his prayers and his counsel was the "chariot of Israel and the horseman thereof", meaning Elijah was the stronghold of Israel, the driving force of God. The Israelites never used chariots till the time of David.

When you compare 2 Kings 2:11-15 with 2 Kings 6:17 you see that God sent the host/angels down to Elijah who caught him up in a whirlwind and translated him to parts unknown. Several years after he was taken away King Jehoram received a letter from him.

What some people do not know is that there are three heavens. The first heaven is the Atmosphere, the air surrounding the earth. Birds fly "in the heaven" - certainly not to God's throne. We read in Genesis l:2 of "foul that may fly above the Earth in the open firmament of heaven." Jacob, when blessing Isaac, said: "God give you of the dew of heaven," and Moses was joyful that the "heavens shall drop down dew" (Gen.27:28; Deut.33:28). The dew comes from the first heaven - the atmosphere. The second heaven is the expanse of this awesome universe - where the stars, moon and planets are. The Psalmists often wrote about the "Heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon, and the stars, which you have ordained" (Ps.8:3; Gen.1:15-17). The third heaven is where the throne of God exists, where the heavenly temple is found and the heavenly Jerusalem.

2 Chronicles Chapter 21 - Jehoram, being the son of Jehoshaphat, was 32 when he began his reign in Israel. He married Ahab's daughter and was a wicked king who reigned for eight years. According to scripture Elijah was taken up in a whirlwind, 2 Kings 2:11-13. The heaven Elijah went up to was only the first heaven being the atmosphere as there are three heavens described in scripture as the throne of God is in the third heaven. A whirlwind can only happen within the atmosphere of the first heaven. During the reign of Jehoram he received a letter from Elijah, 2 Chronicles 21:12-15. How could he receive a letter from Elijah if he was with God in the third heaven? Elijah being caught up to heaven is the same as Phillip being caught up in the first heaven and carried thirty miles away, Acts 8:39, 40. The only difference is that when the fifty men searched for Elijah they could not find him as he was translated further than their search. Phillip was found within the thirty mile radius where he was translated to.

 

[RandyK]

Luke 24:33-53 We see that Jesus had flesh and bone and did eat with the Disciples, but now the flesh was glorified.

I agree with most of your points, but this one is questionable to me. The "flesh was glorified?"

I personally believe Jesus was raised up *in his old body,* ie it was *healed.* He did not want to be restrained, by Mary, from returning to heaven because he had not yet *received his glorified body," ie his *resurrection body.*

But you provide a lot of good info here, and I'm solidly on board. This one point doesn't really detract from that.

 

[for_his_glory]

Do you believe "armies" in this verse means angels ?

Yes I do according to scripture.

The army that returns with Jesus is the army of angels being the host of heaven that comes down with Him and not the saints. Genesis1:1; Deuteronomy 4:19; 33:2; 1 Chronicles 18:18; Nehemiah 9:6;Jeremiah 33:22. John 3:13 makes it very clear that no one has ever ascended up to heaven other than Christ. The only thing that goes back to God when we die is the very breath He gave us that made us a living soul, Genesis 2:7; Ecclesiastics 12:7.

 

[for_his_glory]

The "flesh was glorified?"

This just means that those, dead or alive, that are Christ own will be given new glorified bodies as in changing from the natural corruptible body to incorruptible, mortal to immortal before we are caught up to meet Jesus in the clouds. I have no idea if we will look the same as we are now, or what we will look like, but we will be like Christ in His glorified body.

1Cor 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Cor 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cor 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

 

[RandyK]

This just means that those, dead or alive, that are Christ own will be given new glorified bodies as in changing from the natural corruptible body to incorruptible, mortal to immortal before we are caught up to meet Jesus in the clouds. I have no idea if we will look the same as we are now, or what we will look like, but we will be like Christ in His glorified body.

1Cor 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Cor 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cor 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Thanks, I was wondering if that's what you meant. Sorry if I erred on the negative side! We are in agreement.

My wife and I have speculated on what kind of bodies we hope to have. We're in agreement that as we approach "old age," or are already there, we don't want our present bodies! ;)

I think when Paul called us "fools" for being worried about it, he compared our bodies to something almost unimaginable. I think he saw our bodies as a sort of "seed" of something that seed will become, more beautiful, more powerful, and with all kinds of capacities.

1 Cor 15.35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.
42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

I don't know what a "spiritual body" is (as opposed to a spirit body, which I don't think Paul has in mind)? But it is certainly fun to think about it, or maybe even to guess!

 

[hawkman]

The army that returns with Jesus is the army of angels being the host of heaven that comes down with Him and not the saints.

The thing I notice is in this previous verse in Rev 19:8 what the bride is wearing , "fine linen , clean and white " the very same thing we are told the armies have on in Rev 19 :14 .

My bold .

7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Why doesn't the text of 19:14 say angels or host of heaven if it truly is angels ? Instead we get armies dressed just as the bride is Rev 19:8 .

14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

for_his_glory is there another example of , as you believe , angels dressed in "fine linen , clean and white" ?

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-19-9/

 

[for_his_glory]

Thanks, I was wondering if that's what you meant. Sorry if I erred on the negative side! We are in agreement.

My wife and I have speculated on what kind of bodies we hope to have. We're in agreement that as we approach "old age," or are already there, we don't want our present bodies! ;)

I think when Paul called us "fools" for being worried about it, he compared our bodies to something almost unimaginable. I think he saw our bodies as a sort of "seed" of something that seed will become, more beautiful, more powerful, and with all kinds of capacities.

1 Cor 15.35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.
42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

I don't know what a "spiritual body" is (as opposed to a spirit body, which I don't think Paul has in mind)? But it is certainly fun to think about it, or maybe even to guess!

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

I am so looking forward to this

 

[for_his_glory]

Thanks, I was wondering if that's what you meant. Sorry if I erred on the negative side! We are in agreement.

My wife and I have speculated on what kind of bodies we hope to have. We're in agreement that as we approach "old age," or are already there, we don't want our present bodies! ;)

I think when Paul called us "fools" for being worried about it, he compared our bodies to something almost unimaginable. I think he saw our bodies as a sort of "seed" of something that seed will become, more beautiful, more powerful, and with all kinds of capacities.

1 Cor 15.35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.
42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

I don't know what a "spiritual body" is (as opposed to a spirit body, which I don't think Paul has in mind)? But it is certainly fun to think about it, or maybe even to guess!

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

I am so looking forward to this

The thing I notice is in this previous verse in Rev 19:8 what the bride is wearing , "fine linen , clean and white " the very same thing we are told the armies have on in Rev 19 :14 .

My bold .

7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Why doesn't the text of 19:14 say angels or host of heaven if it truly is angels ? Instead we get armies dressed just as the bride is Rev 19:8 .

14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

for_his_glory is there another example of , as you believe , angels dressed in "fine linen , clean and white" ?

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-19-9/

Fine linen, white and clean means we are clothed in God's righteousness, not actual clothes, as such are the host of heaven that are God's army of angels being pure and spotless. This only happens when Christ returns and we are then changed, 1Corinthians 15:50-58.

According to John 3:13 Jesus said that no one has ever ascended up to heaven, but He alone so this shows that the army that returns from heaven with Jesus re only His angels as they are sent out to gather God's own as we meet Jesus in the air, Matthew 24:31; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18.

 

[for_his_glory]

Thanks, I was wondering if that's what you meant. Sorry if I erred on the negative side! We are in agreement.

My wife and I have speculated on what kind of bodies we hope to have. We're in agreement that as we approach "old age," or are already there, we don't want our present bodies! ;)

I think when Paul called us "fools" for being worried about it, he compared our bodies to something almost unimaginable. I think he saw our bodies as a sort of "seed" of something that seed will become, more beautiful, more powerful, and with all kinds of capacities.

1 Cor 15.35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.
42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

I don't know what a "spiritual body" is (as opposed to a spirit body, which I don't think Paul has in mind)? But it is certainly fun to think about it, or maybe even to guess!

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

I am so looking forward to this

The thing I notice is in this previous verse in Rev 19:8 what the bride is wearing , "fine linen , clean and white " the very same thing we are told the armies have on in Rev 19 :14 .

My bold .

7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Why doesn't the text of 19:14 say angels or host of heaven if it truly is angels ? Instead we get armies dressed just as the bride is Rev 19:8 .

14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

for_his_glory is there another example of , as you believe , angels dressed in "fine linen , clean and white" ?

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-19-9/

Fine linen, white and clean means we are clothed in God's righteousness, not actual clothes, as such are the host of heaven that are God's army of angels being pure and spotless. This only happens when Christ returns and we are then changed, 1Corinthians 15:50-58.

According to John 3:13 Jesus said that no one has ever ascended up to heaven, but He alone so this shows that the army that returns from heaven with Jesus re only His angels as they are sent out to gather God's own as we meet Jesus in the air, Matthew 24:31; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18.

 

[hawkman]

Fine linen, white and clean means we are clothed in God's righteousness, not actual clothes, as such are the host of heaven that are God's army of angels being pure and spotless. This only happens when Christ returns and we are then changed, 1Corinthians 15:50-58.

Yes , the clothing does indicate righteousness I agree and that gives me another question for you .

So what need would the angels in heaven have to be clothed in garments to indicate righteousness ?

I still have a question for you .

for_his_glory is there another example of , as you believe , angels dressed in "fine linen , clean and white" ?

 

[RandyK]

Yes , the clothing does indicate righteousness I agree and that gives me another question for you .

So what need would the angels in heaven have to be clothed in garments to indicate righteousness ?

I still have a question for you .

for_his_glory is there another example of , as you believe , angels dressed in "fine linen , clean and white" ?

Matt 28.2 There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow.

Though this angel was dress in white, I'm not sure the indication was of the clothing being purified or cleansed. It was simply pure and clean.

In Zech 3 it is to be noted that an angel presided over an event in which Heaven declared Joshua the priest to have been dressed in clothes that had been purified. So there is this distinction between being clean initially and being "cleansed," as in "redeemed."

Zech 3.1 Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right side to accuse him. 2 The Lord said to Satan, “The Lord rebuke you, Satan! The Lord, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?”
3 Now Joshua was dressed in filthy clothes as he stood before the angel. 4 The angel said to those who were standing before him, “Take off his filthy clothes.”
Then he said to Joshua, “See, I have taken away your sin, and I will put fine garments on you.”
5 Then I said, “Put a clean turban on his head.” So they put a clean turban on his head and clothed him, while the angel of the Lord stood by.

Angels are not "redeemed" in the Bible. They either serve God or oppose him. But men can begin in opposition to God and then turn to serve God and be cleansed.

So it really depends, if you're looking at who follows Christ at his Coming, if you think those who follow him have been "cleansed" or are initially clean?

Rev 19.13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.

I think there are grounds for believing the angels follow Christ, just as there are grounds for believing the glorified saints follow Christ. I don't feel I have all the answers yet....

Jesus himself is dressed in white, but has not been "cleansed."

Rev 1.14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire.

The following indicates the saints have been cleansed and are dressed in white.

Rev 3.4 Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5 The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels... I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.

Some think the 24 Elders are angels dressed in white, but not "cleansed." You decide.

Rev 4.4 Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads.

I personally think that to have clothes that are "white" indicates they are "clean," but not necessarily "cleansed." When "white clothing" is mentioned there is no need to think these clean clothes had actually been "cleansed."

 

[hawkman]

Angels are not "redeemed" in the Bible.

Indeed they are not . And I can not find an instance of angels wearing "fine linen, clean and white" . I can find an angel mentioned to wear " pure and white linen " but not "fine linen, clean and white" . The "fine linen" is special as we will read in these verses .

I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.

1 Chronicles 15:27​

“And David was clothed with a robe of fine linen, and all the Levites that bare the ark, and the singers, and Chenaniah the master of the song with the singers: David also had upon him an ephod of linen.”

 

[RandyK]

Indeed they are not . And I can not find an instance of angels wearing "fine linen, clean and white" . I can find an angel mentioned to wear " pure and white linen " but not "fine linen, clean and white" . The "fine linen" is special as we will read in these verses .

I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.

1 Chronicles 15:27​

“And David was clothed with a robe of fine linen, and all the Levites that bare the ark, and the singers, and Chenaniah the master of the song with the singers: David also had upon him an ephod of linen.”

Eze 44.18 They are to wear linen turbans on their heads and linen undergarments around their waists. They must not wear anything that makes them perspire.

The priests, under the Law, were required to wear linen. It was a symbol of their purity.

Priests had to be pure before the Lord in order to minister for him. But even then, they required regular cleansing.

Linen was less conducive to making a person perspire. I heard this years ago from teacher/author Maureen Gaglardi, and you may not hear it often. The idea was that priests were agents for the Lord, who was doing the real work of atonement.

The priests, to be properly pure, had to present their work as empty if not for the presence of God in their ministries who was doing the real work. The priests were not to sweat to show that they were not working. God was doing the work.

But the work of the priests under the Law was only temporary, even if somewhat effective. It did cover Israel in their imperfections, assuming the nation was not engaging in full-scale insurrection or apostasy.

Israel was blessed in obeying God, and if they failed in limited ways, they could be received back into God's good graces if they repented. God would cleanse them and make them pure for service again, and to be blessed by Him.

But being that priests themselves needed redemption, their work at cleansing the people spiritually could not provide for anything more than a temporary dispensational service. They could serve only as long as the Law was in effect, and only as long as Israel overall remained faithful to that covenant.

Since the priests were themselves flawed, they had to be cleansed. In a sense, their sanctified linen clothing had to be washed clean.

This stands in distinction from angels or Christ himself dressed in white. They are pure from the start, and do not need cleansing. But for Christians to be depicted as pure, they not only have to be redeemed, but even their ministries require cleansing.

Consequently, we are depicted as dressed in cleansed white garments, and not just white garments. Even though we've been purified we need to continue to be purified.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes , the clothing does indicate righteousness I agree and that gives me another question for you .

So what need would the angels in heaven have to be clothed in garments to indicate righteousness ?

I still have a question for you .

for_his_glory is there another example of , as you believe , angels dressed in "fine linen , clean and white" ?

Don't think of it as actual clothing, but only being the pure and the righteousness of God that that angels and we are clothed in.

 

[hawkman]

Don't think of it as actual clothing, but only being the pure and the righteousness of God that that angels and we are clothed in.

One thing for you to think about . How would an angel's garment get dirty and the angel's garment would need to be described as "clean " ?

14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

The angels will be wearing a supernaturally manifested garment as all angels clothing would be I think and there would be NO reason to describe it as clean or dirty . The dirt of this world would not apply to the angels and their garments of the heavenly realm .

 

[hawkman]

I personally think that to have clothes that are "white" indicates they are "clean," but not necessarily "cleansed." When "white clothing" is mentioned there is no need to think these clean clothes had actually been "cleansed."

When I read clean and I can only think they were soiled at one time . IMO I think it is impossible for and angel's clothing to get soiled in our earthly realm . If the armies were angels we would need no description of them as clean .

This stands in distinction from angels or Christ himself dressed in white. They are pure from the start, and do not need cleansing. But for Christians to be depicted as pure, they not only have to be redeemed, but even their ministries require cleansing.

Consequently, we are depicted as dressed in cleansed white garments, and not just white garments. Even though we've been purified we need to continue to be purified.

Exactly , this is why I believe the armies are the saints and not angels .