Endtimes Temple?

[RandyK]

“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand)…
For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matthew 24:15,21

How can they see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place unless there is a New Temple constructed that has an:

The Abomination of Desolation was the Roman Army, I believe, who was described as being "set up at the temple" (Dan 9.27) or "standing where it does not belong" (Mark 13.14) or being an "army surrounding Jerusalem" (Luke 21.20). And it would take place *in the generation of Christ* {Luke 21.32), which had to be 70 AD at the latest.

Dan 9.27 And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation
Mark 13.14 “When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’ standing where it does not belong"
Luke 21.20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies... 32 “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

It's quite simple to see how the vast majority of the Church Fathers saw this AoD as something concerned with the Roman army's seige of Jerusalem in 66-70 AD. It was an *army,* it was *set up* around the walls of Jerusalem--a holy territory, and it was an abominable pagan force standing around Jerusalem where *it did not belong.*

Pretty easy. Jesus was specific in Luke's version by stating it was an "army surrounding Jerusalem" in the very place where Mark and Matthew called it the "Abomination of Desolation." The "bookends" in this part of Jesus' Discourse were 1) standing firm and 2) fleeing to the mountains. In between these bookends were either the "Abomination of Desolation" or an "army surrounding Jerusalem."

So we know that the synoptic Gospels saw the AoD as the army surrounding Jerusalem. Jesus clearly said both things in the same place in the Discourse, which was a kind of redundancy directing the reader back to Dan 9.

Cleary, all 3 synoptic Gospels took Jesus' statement as lifted directly from Daniel's statement in Dan 9 that it was an army, the "people of the ruler to come" who would desolate "the city and the sanctuary" immediately after Messiah was cut off. Again, pretty easy, unless as a Futurist you want *everything* to be about the future and the Antichrist?

You would have to turn this Discourse aimed at the future of Israel and make it not about Israel specifically, but more about the universal Church, which had scaracely come into view yet. And you would have to unchain from the Discourse Jesus' statement that "all these things will take place in this generation."

Outer Court
Holy Place
Holy of Holies

The Roman army took up their seige at the "Holy Place," which generically referred to surrounding the walls of the Holy City, Jerusalem. This was not a reference to the Holy Place inside the Temple, because this was an unusual use of the term, applying not to the Temple's component parts, but more, to the entire Temple structure and its municipal location, all of which was to be decimated.

There is a major reason Christians have gotten this confused in the past. One, the term "Abomination of Desolation" was also used by Daniel in reference to Antiochus 4. And his acts of sacrilege involved committing sacrilege in the temple, and not just murdering a lot of Jews with an army.

The sacrilege committed by the Roman Army was in penetrating the gates of the city in order to destroy the Temple entirely. Confusing these different kinds of acts of sacrilege and sabatage were different, and not easily understood.

 

[RandyK]

The antichrist is doing the deceiving according to the working of Satan.

The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders. 2 Thessalonians 2:9

The antichrist is the agent of the this strong delusion from God.

The Temple is the place where this strong delusion takes place.

I believe "sitting in the temple of God" is a figure of speech expressing Antichrist's claim to sit in God's place. It was an apt figure because the Temple at that time was still standing and the place where God's presence used to dwell or inhabit.

Antichrist is the deceiver, and God is giving Antichrist to unbelievers to show their choice for evil and against Himself. There is no contradiction there.

 

[for_his_glory]

To all those who think that all the laws have been fulfilled in Christ you are very wrong as below are the laws that are written upon our heart and can only be fulfilled when Christ returns and makes an end to sin by throwing it into the lake of fire with that of the beast and the false prophets. The only laws that Christ has fulfilled so far are that of the Temple and its sacrifices. Someone please show me in scripture where Jesus has fulfilled all the laws, because in Matthew 22:35-40 and Matthew 5:17, 18 Jesus does not say that he has already fulfilled all of them, but that love was the greatest of them all.

There are laws (commandments) of God that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite. Then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all of us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood. The poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family. Forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants. Vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures. Injuries and damages, property and property rights, criminal laws. Prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws (commandments) keep us in line with the will of God.

We need to present ourselves a vessel of honor that God delights in as we allow the light of Christ shine in us and through us. This is a testimony of Gods grace and mercy as it is not ourselves that do any good thing, but Gods Spirit working in us and through us as we surrender our will to that of Gods will to be done.

 

[Elijah7777]

The antichrist is doing the deceiving

Who or what is this antichrist? The apostle John wrote that "many antichrists have come" and that the spirit of the Antichrist was already at work in his time.

1 John 2:18 – "Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour."

 

[JLB]

The Abomination of Desolation was the Roman Army, I believe, who was described as being "set up at the temple" (Dan 9.27) or "standing where it does not belong" (Mark 13.14) or being an "army surrounding Jerusalem" (Luke 21.20). And it would take place *in the generation of Christ* {Luke 21.32), which had to be 70 AD at the latest.

Wow, Randy, are you a Prererist?

 

[Elijah7777]

Someone please show me in scripture where Jesus has fulfilled all the laws

The point is that Jesus set an example for us to follow. My pastor preached 160 sermons on 160 scriptures that show us how we can have the mind of Christ. I had a list that someone gave me at one time. Philippians 2:5, which says: "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus."

• John 13:15 – "I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you." (Jesus speaking after washing His disciples' feet)
• 1 Peter 2:21 – "To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in His steps."
• Ephesians 5:1-2 – "Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us."
• Philippians 2:5 – "In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus."

 

[JLB]

Who or what is this antichrist? The apostle John wrote that "many antichrists have come" and that the spirit of the Antichrist was already at work in his time.

1 John 2:18 – "Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour."

The antichrist is referred to by many names, just as the Christ is referred to by many names.


The Christ:

The Lamb of God
The Prince of peace
Wonderful
Counselor
Mighty God
The Angel of the Lord
YHWH
The Almighty
The Savior
The Alpha and Omega
The Beginning and the End

… to name a few.


The Antichrist:

The man of sin
The son of perdition
The lawless one
The prince who is to come
The little horn
The king of the North

The beast

Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666. Revelation 13:11-18

• He (the beast) performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do
• The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2 Thessalonians 2:8-12



“Then the king shall do according to his own will: he shall exalt and magnify himself above every god, shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the wrath has been accomplished; for what has been determined shall be done. He shall regard neither the God of his fathers nor the desire of women, nor regard any god; for he shall exalt himself above them all. Daniel 11:36-37

• he shall exalt and magnify himself above every god, shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods
• who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped,

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

 

[Elijah7777]

The antichrist is referred to by many names

Good we do not have to figure that out. We just need to learn how to use the Precious Blood of the Lamb of God.

There are many names for the church age. The Age of Grace, The Holy Spirit dispensation, the time of the gentiles and so on. I am sure they will have many names for the Kingdom age. Millennial Kingdom

 

[JLB]

There are many names for the church age. The Age of Grace, The Holy Spirit dispensation, the time of the gentiles and so on. I am sure they will have many names for the Kingdom age. Millennial Kingdom

None of these “ages” are found in scripture.

There is this age; the age that began with Adam, and continues through to the second coming of Christ.

Then we have the “age to come”; that age

I tend to agree that the Millennial Kingdom is the age to come; that age

But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:35-36


In other words if people still marry and are given in marriage and have bodies that can die were are still living in “this age”.

 

[RandyK]

Wow, Randy, are you a Prererist?

I get called that on a regular basis, but no, by my definition I am not. The reason is, I have an unusual assortment of beliefs that include some elements of Preterism. But I am a Futurist, though Futurists may want to disown me because of the Preterist-like elements that I hold to.

Clearly, the Church Fathers were not Preterist, since they predated Preterism by centuries. And they held to the very beliefs that I am espousing. The Church Fathers simply felt that a strong portion of the Olivet Address was focused on the generation in which the Romans destroyed Jerusalem. And I think they were absolutely right.

Preterists tend to see most all of the NT prophecies as being fulfilled in the early centuries of the Church, with the exception that the Partial Preterists recognize that Jesus still has not come and is yet to come in the future.

But I'm not a Partial Preterist either because I believe a good part of the book of Revelation has yet to be fulfilled, including the Reign of Antichrist. I also believe in the future salvation of national Israel, as well as the Millennial Age. So no, I'm not a Preterist.

It's just that Futurists do not like the notion that the Olivet Discourse doesn't go the way of Hal Lindsey or Tim LaHaye. They want all the signs mentioned in that Discourse to be signs for our own times so that we can predict how close we are to the Rapture. They don't like those signs to be signs for Jesus' own generation of Jews to warn them of coming judgment by the Romans in 70 AD.

 

[for_his_glory]

The point is that Jesus set an example for us to follow. My pastor preached 160 sermons on 160 scriptures that show us how we can have the mind of Christ. I had a list that someone gave me at one time. Philippians 2:5, which says: "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus."

• John 13:15 – "I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you." (Jesus speaking after washing His disciples' feet)
• 1 Peter 2:21 – "To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in His steps."
• Ephesians 5:1-2 – "Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us."
• Philippians 2:5 – "In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus."

Yes, these are the things we need to be doing and I would also add Colossians 3:1-17, but what does all of this have to do with the question I asked about whether Jesus has already fulfilled all the 613 laws.

 

[for_his_glory]

I believe "sitting in the temple of God" is a figure of speech expressing Antichrist's claim to sit in God's place. It was an apt figure because the Temple at that time was still standing and the place where God's presence used to dwell or inhabit.

Antichrist is the deceiver, and God is giving Antichrist to unbelievers to show their choice for evil and against Himself. There is no contradiction there.

The Bible never defines just one antichrist, especially as in the capital A of Antichrist that many try to teach, but says even now there are many and in the end of days will be the last time, 1 John 2:18. We have to remember that Satan is a created spirit and needs to work through others in order to build his literal kingdom here on earth as the war in heaven between Michael and Satan has not happened yet, Rev 12:7-12. This will be a Luciferian system of political, economic, environmental, military, educational and false religious power that founded in 1534 with its headquarters in Rome, Italy that will sit upon the mount of the congregation in the sides of the north which is Jerusalem on the same Temple mount of God where the Dome of the Rock is being refurbished for the son of perdition to take its seat. This power of the beast out of the sea gives power to the beast out of the earth who will control the government of every nation on every continent and even now works its iniquity in the world, Rev 13.

The beast that will rise up out of the sea, as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15, gives power to the beast that comes up out of the earth who is the last antichrist/ false prophet/son of perdition, 2Thessalonians 2:3-12.This beast is a Luciferian system comprised of economic, political, militant, environmental and false religious system. This beast system that Satan works through gives its power to the beast out of the earth as the beast out of the earth appears as the Lamb of God, but is a false Christ being the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 His works are the abomination that causes desolation that Jesus forewarned us of in Matthew 24:15 and Daniel who explained this last of the seven remaining nations that make up the four Empires beginning with Babylon that still exist today as mystery Babylon and has always persecuted God's people from the time of Babylon up to present day unto the end of days, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Matthew 24:15; Revelation 13; Revelation 17:15. This will be the time of the greatest falling away from truth as this last antichrist, through lying signs and wonders, will promise peace and safety and then sudden destruction comes upon them who bow down and takes the mark of this beast, 1 Thessalonians 5:1-6.

Jesus said those who will endure in the faith of Christ unto the end the same shall be saved, Matthew 24:13. Satan said, I will ascend into heaven; I will exalt my throne above the stars of God (other ruling powers) I will sit also upon the Mount of the Congregation in the sides of the north (Jerusalem). I will ascend above the clouds, I will be like the Most High, Isaiah 14:12-15. The last antichrist, (as there have been many and even now are in the world), is the son of perdition being the false prophet that Satan works through as he will sit on the sides of the North declaring himself as being God and will cause many to bow down to him and take his mark as many will believe the lying signs and wonders he will show, Rev 13. Again, nowhere in scripture does it capitalize antichrist, but mans misinterpretations capitalize it and makes it one Antichrist that we are to watch for before Christ returns.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[for_his_glory]

The Abomination of Desolation was the Roman Army, I believe, who was described as being "set up at the temple" (Dan 9.27) or "standing where it does not belong" (Mark 13.14) or being an "army surrounding Jerusalem" (Luke 21.20). And it would take place *in the generation of Christ* {Luke 21.32), which had to be 70 AD at the latest.

Dan 9.27 And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation
Mark 13.14 “When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’ standing where it does not belong"
Luke 21.20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies... 32 “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

It's quite simple to see how the vast majority of the Church Fathers saw this AoD as something concerned with the Roman army's seige of Jerusalem in 66-70 AD. It was an *army,* it was *set up* around the walls of Jerusalem--a holy territory, and it was an abominable pagan force standing around Jerusalem where *it did not belong.*

Pretty easy. Jesus was specific in Luke's version by stating it was an "army surrounding Jerusalem" in the very place where Mark and Matthew called it the "Abomination of Desolation." The "bookends" in this part of Jesus' Discourse were 1) standing firm and 2) fleeing to the mountains. In between these bookends were either the "Abomination of Desolation" or an "army surrounding Jerusalem."

So we know that the synoptic Gospels saw the AoD as the army surrounding Jerusalem. Jesus clearly said both things in the same place in the Discourse, which was a kind of redundancy directing the reader back to Dan 9.

Cleary, all 3 synoptic Gospels took Jesus' statement as lifted directly from Daniel's statement in Dan 9 that it was an army, the "people of the ruler to come" who would desolate "the city and the sanctuary" immediately after Messiah was cut off. Again, pretty easy, unless as a Futurist you want *everything* to be about the future and the Antichrist?

You would have to turn this Discourse aimed at the future of Israel and make it not about Israel specifically, but more about the universal Church, which had scaracely come into view yet. And you would have to unchain from the Discourse Jesus' statement that "all these things will take place in this generation."

The Roman army took up their seige at the "Holy Place," which generically referred to surrounding the walls of the Holy City, Jerusalem. This was not a reference to the Holy Place inside the Temple, because this was an unusual use of the term, applying not to the Temple's component parts, but more, to the entire Temple structure and its municipal location, all of which was to be decimated.

There is a major reason Christians have gotten this confused in the past. One, the term "Abomination of Desolation" was also used by Daniel in reference to Antiochus 4. And his acts of sacrilege involved committing sacrilege in the temple, and not just murdering a lot of Jews with an army.

The sacrilege committed by the Roman Army was in penetrating the gates of the city in order to destroy the Temple entirely. Confusing these different kinds of acts of sacrilege and sabatage were different, and not easily understood.

The beast that will rise up out of the sea, as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15, gives power to the beast that comes up out of the earth who is the last antichrist/ false prophet/son of perdition, 2Thessalonians 2:3-12.This beast is a Luciferian system comprised of economic, political, militant, environmental and false religious system. This beast system that Satan works through gives its power to the beast out of the earth as the beast out of the earth appears as the Lamb of God, but is a false Christ being the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 His works are the abomination that causes desolation that Jesus forewarned us of in Matthew 24:15 and Daniel who explained this last of the seven remaining nations that make up the four Empires beginning with Babylon that still exist today as mystery Babylon and has always persecuted God's people from the time of Babylon up to present day unto the end of days, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Matthew 24:15; Revelation 13; Revelation 17:15. This will be the time of the greatest falling away from truth as this last antichrist, through lying signs and wonders, will promise peace and safety and then sudden destruction comes upon them who bow down and takes the mark of this beast, 1 Thessalonians 5:1-6.

 

[Elijah7777]

what does all of this have to do with the question I asked about whether Jesus has already fulfilled all the 613 laws.

Jesus fully obeyed God's commandments, living a sinless life that fulfilled the law. As Psalm 51:16-17 reveals, true sacrifice is not about ritual offerings, but a heart that is humble and repentant. David understood that external actions alone were insufficient—what God truly desires is a broken spirit and a contrite heart.

The Jewish wedding ceremony, specifically the chuppah, serves as a powerful symbol of God’s presence in a couple’s new home. It echoes the tent of Abraham, which was open on all sides to welcome guests—a reminder that a God-centered life is rooted in love, hospitality, and righteousness.

Jesus summarized the entire law in a single, profound command: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself." (Matthew 22:37-39)

The 613 commandments, later developed in rabbinic literature, were not formally codified during Jesus’ time. Many followed the letter of the law but missed its true intent—something Jesus often challenged.

Paul, much like David, sought wisdom from Scripture, though he likely did not have personal copies. The Law and Prophets were read aloud in synagogues, which is why Paul often said, "It is written," even if he didn’t recall the exact passage.

Paul once disagreed with Mark, but later reconciled when Mark brought books—precious in a time before the printing press. That process of hand-copying and selling books is something I am working on in a story I am writting.

 

[RandyK]

The beast that will rise up out of the sea, as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15, gives power to the beast that comes up out of the earth who is the last antichrist/ false prophet/son of perdition, 2Thessalonians 2:3-12.This beast is a Luciferian system comprised of economic, political, militant, environmental and false religious system. This beast system that Satan works through gives its power to the beast out of the earth as the beast out of the earth appears as the Lamb of God, but is a false Christ being the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 His works are the abomination that causes desolation that Jesus forewarned us of in Matthew 24:15 and Daniel who explained this last of the seven remaining nations that make up the four Empires beginning with Babylon that still exist today as mystery Babylon and has always persecuted God's people from the time of Babylon up to present day unto the end of days, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Matthew 24:15; Revelation 13; Revelation 17:15. This will be the time of the greatest falling away from truth as this last antichrist, through lying signs and wonders, will promise peace and safety and then sudden destruction comes upon them who bow down and takes the mark of this beast, 1 Thessalonians 5:1-6.

I agree with much of that except I don't think the Abomination of Desolation mentioned in the Olivet Discourse is the Antichrist. Only a couple of Church Fathers believed that, including Irenaeus and his disciple Hippolytus. These were important Church Fathers, but an extreme minority among them.

There is a reason the vast number of Church Fathers felt the AoD was something associated with the Roman desolation of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Dan 9 specifically pointed in that direction when it indicated the AoD followed the "cutting off" of Christ, resulting in the "people of the ruler to come" desolating "the city and the sanctuary." That has to be, I feel, the Roman Army in 70 AD.

 

[Elijah7777]

the war in heaven between Michael and Satan has not happened yet, Rev 12:7-12.

What does this mean?
Revelation 12:4 – "His tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven..." What do you think this means?

 

[RandyK]

The Bible never defines just one antichrist, especially as in the capital A of Antichrist that many try to teach, but says even now there are many and in the end of days will be the last time, 1 John 2:18. We have to remember that Satan is a created spirit and needs to work through others in order to build his literal kingdom here on earth as the war in heaven between Michael and Satan has not happened yet, Rev 12:7-12. This will be a Luciferian system of political, economic, environmental, military, educational and false religious power that founded in 1534 with its headquarters in Rome, Italy that will sit upon the mount of the congregation in the sides of the north which is Jerusalem on the same Temple mount of God where the Dome of the Rock is being refurbished for the son of perdition to take its seat. This power of the beast out of the sea gives power to the beast out of the earth who will control the government of every nation on every continent and even now works its iniquity in the world, Rev 13.

The beast that will rise up out of the sea, as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15, gives power to the beast that comes up out of the earth who is the last antichrist/ false prophet/son of perdition, 2Thessalonians 2:3-12.This beast is a Luciferian system comprised of economic, political, militant, environmental and false religious system. This beast system that Satan works through gives its power to the beast out of the earth as the beast out of the earth appears as the Lamb of God, but is a false Christ being the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 His works are the abomination that causes desolation that Jesus forewarned us of in Matthew 24:15 and Daniel who explained this last of the seven remaining nations that make up the four Empires beginning with Babylon that still exist today as mystery Babylon and has always persecuted God's people from the time of Babylon up to present day unto the end of days, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Matthew 24:15; Revelation 13; Revelation 17:15. This will be the time of the greatest falling away from truth as this last antichrist, through lying signs and wonders, will promise peace and safety and then sudden destruction comes upon them who bow down and takes the mark of this beast, 1 Thessalonians 5:1-6.

Jesus said those who will endure in the faith of Christ unto the end the same shall be saved, Matthew 24:13. Satan said, I will ascend into heaven; I will exalt my throne above the stars of God (other ruling powers) I will sit also upon the Mount of the Congregation in the sides of the north (Jerusalem). I will ascend above the clouds, I will be like the Most High, Isaiah 14:12-15. The last antichrist, (as there have been many and even now are in the world), is the son of perdition being the false prophet that Satan works through as he will sit on the sides of the North declaring himself as being God and will cause many to bow down to him and take his mark as many will believe the lying signs and wonders he will show, Rev 13. Again, nowhere in scripture does it capitalize antichrist, but mans misinterpretations capitalize it and makes it one Antichrist that we are to watch for before Christ returns.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

I believe the Scriptures do specify a single Antichrist. In Dan 7 we read of the "little horn," who appears to be a king ruling among 7 other kings or an assembly of 10 kingdoms.

It's just that we were warned that the evil one is operating today, well before the Antichrist system rises. There have been many Antichrist systems in history--systems that fight, hate, and have destroyed Christian territories.

I don't have to identify the old forms of these Antichrist systems, such as the city of Rome or the Temple Mount. The forms of these Antichrists change with time as Christianity itself has evolved and expanded.

I think Christianity rooted itself in European Civilization, and that Civilization has expanded greatly, or at least influenced the world. Satan has also enlarged his Antichrist systems to oppose Christianity.

So I don't focus on Antichrist to be centered in Rome as much as centered in European Civilization, as it has spread across the world. This stretches at least from America to Russia.

The point is, Antichrist attacks us in whatever form it thinks it needs to weaken and destroy us. We need to look less to how we think it will look at the end and focus more on what is happening to our society today.

 

[Elijah7777]

There have been many Antichrist systems in history

Everything applies to everyone to some degree. When we look forward our life seems like an eternity. But when we look back it seems as if everything went by so fast. That is why we are told "soon".

 

[JLB]

I get called that on a regular basis, but no, by my definition I am not.

Ok good. Thank goodness.

 

[JLB]

They don't like those signs to be signs for Jesus' own generation of Jews to warn them of coming judgment by the Romans in 70 AD.

I’m not a pretriber.


However The Olivet Discourse found in Matthew 24, Luke 21, and Mark 13, are not about the events of 70 AD.


The Olivet Discourse, contextually is about His coming and the end of the age.

This is where the Preterist’s get stuck in their mindset.


Jesus is teaching from His own prophetic word through the prophet Zechariah.

Jesus spoke through the prophet Zechariah and testified obituary what He would suffer during His first coming as well as teaching about the things of His second coming and the end of the age.

Example:

“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10

• then they will look on Me whom they pierced

This word of the LORD through Zechariah includes what He would suffer on the cross, and how those who were responsible for the cross would see Him at His coming and mourn for Him realizing He was their Messiah all along.

again

Word of the LORD Through Zechariah -

• Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,

Second coming of Christ; Day of the LORD

• For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;

Second coming of Christ; Olivet Discourse - armies surrounding Jerusalem.

• Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle.

Second coming of Christ; Jesus did not fight the Roman armies during the events of 70 AD, thus this refers to the Second Coming of Christ, not the events of 70 AD.

• And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,

This did not occur during the events of 70 AD. This will occur during the Second Coming of Christ; The Day of the LORD. The mount of Olives is still there.

• Thus the LORD my God will come, and all the saints with You.

This is a Second Coming event when Jesus returns with the saints as called out in Revelation 19, and 1 Thessalonians 4:15, and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3

This is what Jesus taught at the Olivet Discourse, which has nothing to do with the events of 70 AD.


THE MAIN POINT:

Reading the Olivet Discourse through the lens of the events of 70 AD will be only bring confusion and misunderstanding.

The Olivet Discourse must be understood as what occurs on the Day of the Lord, the Second Coming of Christ and not the events of 70 AD.

Specifically this language which “sounds like” 70 AD language but in reality is Zechariah 14, Day of the LORD: Second Coming of Christ language.

• For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; Zechariah 14:2

• “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. Luke 21:20

Luke 21:20 is referring to Zechariah 14:2 not the events of 70 AD.


Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
It shall come to pass in that day
That there will be no light;
The lights will diminish.
It shall be one day
Which is known to the LORD—
Neither day nor night.
But at evening time it shall happen
That it will be light.
Zechariah 14:1-6