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Bible Study Genesis 2-3

Edward said:
As above, so below, right? On earth as it is in Heaven?



No Rankings in Heaven? Ok let's look at this from a different perspective then.

Matthew 6:20
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:.../

Why are we instructed to lay up treasures in Heaven for ourselves? If God is absolutely fair and gives everyone the same split as everyone else, then why go do good works?

That's a dumb question because there are two Judgements coming. The judgement of the condemned who are punished according to their bad works and with the same measure, that they used on others in life.
And the Bema seat where the Believers are rewarded for their works. Isn't that right? I'm pert sure that's right.

We all know that there are many different types of hearts that people have. Some people go out of their way to not help people and be super stingy. While others may go out of their way to help others and even over extend themselves without a thought just to be able to help...
Right?

Now let's think Talants Parable again. There's 3 guys. They work for their Master (The Lord!). The Lord gives one of the men one Talent, to the 2nd man He gives 5 Talents, and to the 3rd man He gave to Him 10 Talents!

The guy with 1 Talent buried it so it wouldn't get lost, and He got Fired for it! That was dumb. Should've at least got Interest on it! ...Give it to the man who has 10/20.

There's so many lessons in this Parable. It teaches us that we are to be profitable Servants unto the Lord, and that more wffort and diligence will receive more rewards. The Lord rewards Obedience. (James 1:22-25)

Shall be blessed in his deeds. If you do more you're blessed more than the others who have done less work or been less obedient.

Which is why the 3 men got differing amounts of Talents to begin with! The one guy who received 10 Talents at first...why did he receive 10 and the other guy only receive one Talent? Well, because one's a Private and one's a Sargeant! Rank. Get it? I think it's apparent all over scripture.
Click to expand...
First we have to ask what these treasures are that are stored up in heaven as we know they are Spiritual and not materialistic. Go back to faith without works is dead faith. The works we do are the works of Christ as we fulfill the will of God.

Our treasures in heaven are the deeds of mercy and deeds of kindness to people in need. For where your treasue is, there your heart will be also. There are earthly treasures of material gain, and then there are Spiritual treasures of the heart like that of Matthew 25:31-40. Again I see this as faith works that come from the heart as in our treasures that are stored up in heaven.

I agree with the two judgements so no problem there.

The moral of the ten talents is that we are to use and grow our gifts from God for His glory as we store our treasures up in heaven.

This parable teaches us that success is a product of our work that brings glory unto the Lord. God placed Adam in the garden to work it and take care of it as that was his mission. We as Christians also have a mission in the here and now as we serve the common good and further God's kingdom.

I still do not see any levels of heaven, but only that which we will hear Jesus saying to the faithful servant still in the here and now on earth, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord, Matthew 25:21. The faithful here on earth only enter the joy of the Lord in the here and now. But, when Christ returns His faithful servants will hear, "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world"

God charged Adam to have dominion over every living thing as he reigned with God here on earth. We are also given that same charge to have dominion over the earth as we rule over it with the power and authority given us through the grace of God. It's His power and authority working through us in order to do the will of God here on earth.
 
for_his_glory said:
First we have to ask what these treasures are that are stored up in heaven as we know they are Spiritual and not materialistic. Go back to faith without works is dead faith. The works we do are the works of Christ as we fulfill the will of God.

Our treasures in heaven are the deeds of mercy and deeds of kindness to people in need. For where your treasue is, there your heart will be also. There are earthly treasures of material gain, and then there are Spiritual treasures of the heart like that of Matthew 25:31-40. Again I see this as faith works that come from the heart as in our treasures that are stored up in heaven.

I agree with the two judgements so no problem there.

The moral of the ten talents is that we are to use and grow our gifts from God for His glory as we store our treasures up in heaven.

This parable teaches us that success is a product of our work that brings glory unto the Lord. God placed Adam in the garden to work it and take care of it as that was his mission. We as Christians also have a mission in the here and now as we serve the common good and further God's kingdom.

I still do not see any levels of heaven, but only that which we will hear Jesus saying to the faithful servant still in the here and now on earth, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord, Matthew 25:21. The faithful here on earth only enter the joy of the Lord in the here and now. But, when Christ returns His faithful servants will hear, "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world"

God charged Adam to have dominion over every living thing as he reigned with God here on earth. We are also given that same charge to have dominion over the earth as we rule over it with the power and authority given us through the grace of God. It's His power and authority working through us in order to do the will of God here on earth.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with anything you say. That is all very true. And the more we fulfill the will of God, the more we will be rewarded.

Another perspective from scripture. Angels. That there are different Angels shows us that there is rank among Angels also.

All Angels are not equal. If one Angel, in one night, slew 187,000 Assyrian soldiers...I'm guessing that, that wasn't the same Angel (Abilities) that was withstood and delayed from bringing Daniel His message of understanding when Daniel had been praying for 21 days. I bet the other Angel could have broke through sooner and without help.

I realize that scripture doesn't exactly spell it out and define it about Rank, but to me it's still readily apparent.
 
Edward said:
As above, so below, right? On earth as it is in Heaven?



No Rankings in Heaven? Ok let's look at this from a different perspective then.

Matthew 6:20
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:.../

Why are we instructed to lay up treasures in Heaven for ourselves? If God is absolutely fair and gives everyone the same split as everyone else, then why go do good works?

That's a dumb question because there are two Judgements coming. The judgement of the condemned who are punished according to their bad works and with the same measure, that they used on others in life.
And the Bema seat where the Believers are rewarded for their works. Isn't that right? I'm pert sure that's right.

We all know that there are many different types of hearts that people have. Some people go out of their way to not help people and be super stingy. While others may go out of their way to help others and even over extend themselves without a thought just to be able to help...
Right?

Now let's think Talants Parable again. There's 3 guys. They work for their Master (The Lord!). The Lord gives one of the men one Talent, to the 2nd man He gives 5 Talents, and to the 3rd man He gave to Him 10 Talents!

The guy with 1 Talent buried it so it wouldn't get lost, and He got Fired for it! That was dumb. Should've at least got Interest on it! ...Give it to the man who has 10/20.

There's so many lessons in this Parable. It teaches us that we are to be profitable Servants unto the Lord, and that more wffort and diligence will receive more rewards. The Lord rewards Obedience. (James 1:22-25)

Shall be blessed in his deeds. If you do more you're blessed more than the others who have done less work or been less obedient.

Which is why the 3 men got differing amounts of Talents to begin with! The one guy who received 10 Talents at first...why did he receive 10 and the other guy only receive one Talent? Well, because one's a Private and one's a Sargeant! Rank. Get it? I think it's apparent all over scripture.
Click to expand...
Great point bringing up Matt 6:20, I hadn't even thought to apply that verse.
Different people have different opportunities to fulfill biblical commands. Depending on someone's status, they can have significant more opportunity to fulfill them. Hence why they are said to have been given different numbers of talents at first
 
T. E. Smith said:
Great point bringing up Matt 6:20, I hadn't even thought to apply that verse.
Different people have different opportunities to fulfill biblical commands. Depending on someone's status, they can have significant more opportunity to fulfill them. Hence why they are said to have been given different numbers of talents at first
Click to expand...

I think that is right. It makes sense because the closer to God one's relationship is, the more works he would have, the more Faith generated, more of God's will accomplished, more learning of the kingdom of Heaven, so their spiritual development would give them a greater capacity to serve the Lord.

Now the Lord promises that your cup will runneth over. He doesn't talk about cup sizes. But it must increase as the relationship grows. Your cup will always run over, but your capacity does increase.

That's one of the weird things about the spiritual. In the natural, when the body eats food and you eat to satiate it, then you are satisfied. But try feeding your spirit with the Word of God...and it makes you want more! There is no satisfaction! So that's cool I think.

I think there's a scripture that says, every once in awhile Angels come around to measure us? (I think it was meaning spiritually, as if, promotions are coming up, did you make the cut this time?!)
 
Edward said:
If everyone were the Bride of Christ, then can you tell me why the Lord God let Moses talk Him into letting him see Him. God said, you'd die if you seen the front so I'll let you see my back....remember that? SO why would God do that for Moses, but He wouldn't do it for...say, TE Smith?

If God had showed as much of Himself to Smith as He did Moses, then Smith would be talking a much different line here, lol.
Moses simply has a higher rank than Smith. That's why.
Click to expand...
Has any of us seen God or Christ Jesus, no. But only to do His will be done on earth as it is in heaven. I can only answer your question by saying if God wanted to show us His back parts that would be His choosing to do so, but yet many like T. E. Smith would still reject Him as God has made Himself know to many who have not physically seen Him, but have heard His voice like you have in the testimonies you give. Jesus being the very word of God come in the flesh and showing many signs and wonders to the people, they still rejected Him, even today until the coming of the Lord.

It is my understanding, and by all means I can only hope I am right, that all of faith in Christ Jesus from the time of Adam on are all the bride of Christ as we are one body, but with many different functions within the body for the purpose of God's ministry here on earth. There is no servant that is greater than another or greater then their Master as the body is one with Christ being the head of the body who are the Bride of Christ.

As hard as tried, I still can not find any scripture that says there are certain levels for the saints as one being greater then the other in the New Jerusalem. I know you have given me many scriptures, but yet I see nothing of what different stages of levels there are.
 
Edward said:
I don't disagree with anything you say. That is all very true. And the more we fulfill the will of God, the more we will be rewarded.

Another perspective from scripture. Angels. That there are different Angels shows us that there is rank among Angels also.

All Angels are not equal. If one Angel, in one night, slew 187,000 Assyrian soldiers...I'm guessing that, that wasn't the same Angel (Abilities) that was withstood and delayed from bringing Daniel His message of understanding when Daniel had been praying for 21 days. I bet the other Angel could have broke through sooner and without help.

I realize that scripture doesn't exactly spell it out and define it about Rank, but to me it's still readily apparent.
Click to expand...
Angels are God's messengers who are sent out for many different task. Just as we are sent out for many different task as the task is not qual to another, but yet for the purpose of God's will.

I understand where you are coming from, but further discussions of angels would more than likely go to far off topic.

As for the other discussion, I feel it's just one of those things we will just have to wait and see when we get there :)
 
Edward said:
I think that is right. It makes sense because the closer to God one's relationship is, the more works he would have, the more Faith generated, more of God's will accomplished, more learning of the kingdom of Heaven, so their spiritual development would give them a greater capacity to serve the Lord.

Now the Lord promises that your cup will runneth over. He doesn't talk about cup sizes. But it must increase as the relationship grows. Your cup will always run over, but your capacity does increase.

That's one of the weird things about the spiritual. In the natural, when the body eats food and you eat to satiate it, then you are satisfied. But try feeding your spirit with the Word of God...and it makes you want more! There is no satisfaction! So that's cool I think.

I think there's a scripture that says, every once in awhile Angels come around to measure us? (I think it was meaning spiritually, as if, promotions are coming up, did you make the cut this time?!)
Click to expand...
This I can not say is absolutely
correct.

If Moses was in the cleft of the rock looking at God’s backside
( both facing forward, till he was comprehending Gods thoughts face to face, but both looking in the same direction). Would Moses see partially what God saw and partially what Moses comprehended?

Christ in us and us in Christ. Both in scripture.

When God sees a seed he sees his words. In the natural when we see a seed we see a seed. Without revelation we are just not on the same level. With revelation ( mind of Christ) we see the words of God.

When I hear New Jerusalem coming down out of Heaven. I see the cerebral cortex containing God as a spirit ( spirit of our mind of Christ). The spinal fluid is made in the cerebral area. As a river it brings the spirit past the cerebellum ( tree on either side of the river) and changes nourishes my carnal thoughts. Can there be a New Jerusalem? Sure. Can it be symbolic at the same time? I guess so.

If I did not see the hidden man of the heart and the snake on a pole in our kidneys or the eagles wing flying on our liver; I would chunk all this symbolism stuff. God autographed / tattooed us in the inside, and drops hints all through scriptures.

Not just physical or just spiritual, but both and more.

eddif
 
eddif said:
This I can not say is absolutely
correct.

If Moses was in the cleft of the rock looking at God’s backside
( both facing forward, till he was comprehending Gods thoughts face to face, but both looking in the same direction). Would Moses see partially what God saw and partially what Moses comprehended?

Christ in us and us in Christ. Both in scripture.

When God sees a seed he sees his words. In the natural when we see a seed we see a seed. Without revelation we are just not on the same level. With revelation ( mind of Christ) we see the words of God.

When I hear New Jerusalem coming down out of Heaven. I see the cerebral cortex containing God as a spirit ( spirit of our mind of Christ). The spinal fluid is made in the cerebral area. As a river it brings the spirit past the cerebellum ( tree on either side of the river) and changes nourishes my carnal thoughts. Can there be a New Jerusalem? Sure. Can it be symbolic at the same time? I guess so.

If I did not see the hidden man of the heart and the snake on a pole in our kidneys or the eagles wing flying on our liver; I would chunk all this symbolism stuff. God autographed / tattooed us in the inside, and drops hints all through scriptures.

Not just physical or just spiritual, but both and more.

eddif
Click to expand...
God's backside... Lol. You don't hear too many Christians use that word in this context.
 
for_his_glory said:
Has any of us seen God or Christ Jesus, no. But only to do His will be done on earth as it is in heaven. I can only answer your question by saying if God wanted to show us His back parts that would be His choosing to do so, but yet many like T. E. Smith would still reject Him as God has made Himself know to many who have not physically seen Him, but have heard His voice like you have in the testimonies you give. Jesus being the very word of God come in the flesh and showing many signs and wonders to the people, they still rejected Him, even today until the coming of the Lord.

It is my understanding, and by all means I can only hope I am right, that all of faith in Christ Jesus from the time of Adam on are all the bride of Christ as we are one body, but with many different functions within the body for the purpose of God's ministry here on earth. There is no servant that is greater than another or greater then their Master as the body is one with Christ being the head of the body who are the Bride of Christ.

As hard as tried, I still can not find any scripture that says there are certain levels for the saints as one being greater then the other in the New Jerusalem. I know you have given me many scriptures, but yet I see nothing of what different stages of levels there are.
Click to expand...
Ah, the old apologist strategy: "If you don't believe it, nothing can convince you." That's just false. But keep on believing if you want to...
 
for_his_glory said:
First we have to ask what these treasures are that are stored up in heaven as we know they are Spiritual and not materialistic. Go back to faith without works is dead faith. The works we do are the works of Christ as we fulfill the will of God.

Our treasures in heaven are the deeds of mercy and deeds of kindness to people in need. For where your treasue is, there your heart will be also. There are earthly treasures of material gain, and then there are Spiritual treasures of the heart like that of Matthew 25:31-40. Again I see this as faith works that come from the heart as in our treasures that are stored up in heaven.

I agree with the two judgements so no problem there.

The moral of the ten talents is that we are to use and grow our gifts from God for His glory as we store our treasures up in heaven.

This parable teaches us that success is a product of our work that brings glory unto the Lord. God placed Adam in the garden to work it and take care of it as that was his mission. We as Christians also have a mission in the here and now as we serve the common good and further God's kingdom.

I still do not see any levels of heaven, but only that which we will hear Jesus saying to the faithful servant still in the here and now on earth, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord, Matthew 25:21. The faithful here on earth only enter the joy of the Lord in the here and now. But, when Christ returns His faithful servants will hear, "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world"

God charged Adam to have dominion over every living thing as he reigned with God here on earth. We are also given that same charge to have dominion over the earth as we rule over it with the power and authority given us through the grace of God. It's His power and authority working through us in order to do the will of God here on earth.
Click to expand...

It's this post here of your that gives me pause. You've essentially explained the compassion of Christ and I know that is true. So you might be right. This is one of the things that we'll have to wait and see on.

Don't it irratate you when you ask the Lord a question and He doesn't give you an answer?! I do but at myself because I think that no answer means it was probably a dumb question, lol.

But on the flip side, we know that when the Lord answers a question for us, that is must have been a good question.
 
Edward said:
It's this post here of your that gives me pause. You've essentially explained the compassion of Christ and I know that is true. So you might be right. This is one of the things that we'll have to wait and see on.

Don't it irratate you when you ask the Lord a question and He doesn't give you an answer?! I do but at myself because I think that no answer means it was probably a dumb question, lol.

But on the flip side, we know that when the Lord answers a question for us, that is must have been a good question.
Click to expand...

So it's ultimatelly true that I do not "know" that everyone is not the Bride of Christ. I just think there is lots of clues in the Bible that sure seem to intimate rank.


I just thought of another scripture. Where a man was thrown out of the wedding reception because he didn't have the proper clothes? I wonder that means?

At any rate, I hope I can be a SGT at least when I get there. Just not a buck Private, lol. I don't have any illusions about being high up, that's funny! I'm not Patton. I'm not Paul. Don't see how I ever could be. I'm Edward. Noby ever heard of Edward before, lol. The Brass knows me. And my Recruiter!

But how can one man get tossed out of the wedding for any impropriety whatsoever, if everyone is the Bride of Christ?
 
Edward said:
So it's ultimatelly true that I do not "know" that everyone is not the Bride of Christ. I just think there is lots of clues in the Bible that sure seem to intimate rank.


I just thought of another scripture. Where a man was thrown out of the wedding reception because he didn't have the proper clothes? I wonder that means?

At any rate, I hope I can be a SGT at least when I get there. Just not a buck Private, lol. I don't have any illusions about being high up, that's funny! I'm not Patton. I'm not Paul. Don't see how I ever could be. I'm Edward. Noby ever heard of Edward before, lol. The Brass knows me. And my Recruiter!

But how can one man get tossed out of the wedding for any impropriety whatsoever, if everyone is the Bride of Christ?
Click to expand...
I just thought about this. If there is indeed going to be a military command structure with multiple bosses and we truly aren't to return to humanity being ruled by God alone, then I don't want to go where that is.
 
Northman said:
I just thought about this. If there is indeed going to be a military command structure with multiple bosses and we truly aren't to return to humanity being ruled by God alone, then I don't want to go where that is.
Click to expand...

No, we are in Christ and Christ is in us and that's not going to change. God certainly would not fashion His Kingdom after man's model, lol.

That part of what I was saying was just talk. Figurative.
 
Goldwing said:
Glory, Eddif, neither of you answered my question. Based on my explanation of "conditional immortality", If you were living in the "New earth", and an individual having an unfallen nature, along with a freewill once like Satan or Adam, chooses to sin, and God destroyed that person that day, would you think God's action were in love, having experienced a life in a fallen world?

Answer the question, and I'll give you my sources you seek.
Click to expand...
I haven't followed this entire discussion, but my take on Eden is that it was on Earth because Adam and Eve were flesh and bone. Flesh and bone will not be in Heaven. They were mortals living their mortal lives. By grace, their mortal days were not numbered. Conditioned on their obedience, they would be allowed to live in Eden and live for as long as God's grace/will allowed. There were two trees one good and one evil. Since Satan had been cast from heaven, Eden had to have been on Earth as this is where Satan had been cast to. God knowing and seeing past, present, future told them if they eat of the evil tree that they would die. He foresaw them being cast out and their days thereby numbered.
This is why I don't buy into grace only theology. It was conditional then and it is still so. I'm speaking past/present. I really don't know about future(heaven). I think the future Earth will still have those basic choices and consequences when Christ (tree of life) returns. After the final judgment, sin will cease to exist. All will be in Heaven.
Do I have this reasonably correct?
 
Edward said:
It's this post here of your that gives me pause. You've essentially explained the compassion of Christ and I know that is true. So you might be right. This is one of the things that we'll have to wait and see on.

Don't it irratate you when you ask the Lord a question and He doesn't give you an answer?! I do but at myself because I think that no answer means it was probably a dumb question, lol.

But on the flip side, we know that when the Lord answers a question for us, that is must have been a good question.
Click to expand...
I've asked the lord many questions without getting any answers and I think it's because we are not ready to understand certain things until we are with Him. That will be an ahh moment.
 
Edward said:
So it's ultimatelly true that I do not "know" that everyone is not the Bride of Christ. I just think there is lots of clues in the Bible that sure seem to intimate rank.


I just thought of another scripture. Where a man was thrown out of the wedding reception because he didn't have the proper clothes? I wonder that means?

At any rate, I hope I can be a SGT at least when I get there. Just not a buck Private, lol. I don't have any illusions about being high up, that's funny! I'm not Patton. I'm not Paul. Don't see how I ever could be. I'm Edward. Noby ever heard of Edward before, lol. The Brass knows me. And my Recruiter!

But how can one man get tossed out of the wedding for any impropriety whatsoever, if everyone is the Bride of Christ?
Click to expand...
The wedding reception will have to be another thread if you want to start one. Tag me if you do.
 
T. E. Smith said:
Ah, the old apologist strategy: "If you don't believe it, nothing can convince you." That's just false. But keep on believing if you want to...
Click to expand...
Apparently nothing we have said in any of these forums will convince you, but you can not keep us from praying for your salvation. Never say never!!!
 
T. E. Smith said:
God's backside... Lol. You don't hear too many Christians use that word in this context.
Click to expand...
backside is in the Bible, Exodus 30:22-23, but yet you make a joke of God, wow.

What would be the purpose of you sharing scriptures with us if not to eventually start to find truth in them. Be careful, you might become a child of God :biggrin2
 
daninthelionsden said:
I haven't followed this entire discussion, but my take on Eden is that it was on Earth because Adam and Eve were flesh and bone. Flesh and bone will not be in Heaven. They were mortals living their mortal lives. By grace, their mortal days were not numbered. Conditioned on their obedience, they would be allowed to live in Eden and live for as long as God's grace/will allowed. There were two trees one good and one evil. Since Satan had been cast from heaven, Eden had to have been on Earth as this is where Satan had been cast to. God knowing and seeing past, present, future told them if they eat of the evil tree that they would die. He foresaw them being cast out and their days thereby numbered.
This is why I don't buy into grace only theology. It was conditional then and it is still so. I'm speaking past/present. I really don't know about future(heaven). I think the future Earth will still have those basic choices and consequences when Christ (tree of life) returns. After the final judgment, sin will cease to exist. All will be in Heaven.
Do I have this reasonably correct?
Click to expand...
Those who have opened the door Jesus knocked on are those who are in Christ and He in them as we are indwelled with the Holy Spirit of promise. This doesn't mean we are perfect, but our spirit is made renewed again. The flesh will always battle the spirit as we see in Adam and Eve, but if we are truly Christ own this flesh will never have victory over
us

. FourRiversofEden.jpg
 
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