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Bible Study Jesus Is Not Your Buddy.

kdm1984 said:
I'll hope the congratulations you gave to me was of the most humble attitude in correction.
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On providing an amusing anecdote. Yep.. sure.
kdm1984 said:
Nonetheless, I was showing an example of how bad theology (in the case of my parents) led to some issues, but how few people actually take correction.
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Right... theology can get things wrong. Not related to what I was discussing earlier... but sure.
kdm1984 said:
I will take your correction, however, and leave this forum.
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Paul Timothy said:
I was amused and it was an anecdote.
You have your own feelings gs on the matter.
I do not agree with your feelings.
Stick to the facts and nobody gets hurt.
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Not going to get into it here. Please take this to TWTS if you want to further talk about this as it has nothing to do with what I feel. I will no longer reply to this here.
 
Tenchi said:
Each of these kinds of Jesus draw from human experience and desire, conforming the Creator, Savior and Lord of All, to a finite, earthly frame of reference.
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I read through your piece, Tenchi, and it's decent enough. I wouldn't take it out of the realm of any earthly frame of reference completely, however, for it is said of Abraham that he became the friend of God, and it's also said of the church that we now cry out to Him, calling Him "Abba Father."

My every day is spent submitting to Him as Lord, so my life is very much as a slave to Him in that respect, and we are nowhere near on the same level inter-relationally. But I do believe I could rely on Him to be my friend in times of need. So while my primary interaction with Him is much more business-like, I'm not above thinking of Him as a Buddy if the circumstances were to call for it.

He's just a really BIG buddy is all, Lol.

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kdm1984 said:
OP, are you Reformed/Calvinist? They tend to be the most outspoken against "Jesus is your buddy" type Christians.
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No, I'm definitely not Reformed/Calvinist. But I am biblical, as I think I've demonstrated in my OP and posts in this thread. In the revelation of Christ that God's word offers to me, I see him lovingly taking up children in his arms and violently casting out money changers from the temple (Mark 10:13-16; John 2:13-16); I see him calling his closest disciples "friends" (John 15:15) and his opponents "brood of vipers," "sons of hell," "white-washed tombs full of dead men's bones," and "hypocrites" (Matthew 23); I see him healing the sick and disabled and commanding sinners to "sin no more" (Matthew 4:23; John 5:14; John 8:11); I see him suffering the incredible humiliation of the cross and standing before the apostle John in the Revelation, his face shining like the sun, eyes like a flame of fire, voice as the sound of many waters, and holding in his right hand seven stars (Philippians 2:5-8; Revelation 1:12-18). Too often these days, Christians are making a mirror of Christ, a vastly diminished but relatable Jesus that they prefer, not the Creator, King and God of Scripture.

kdm1984 said:
The "Jesus is your buddy" type of folks are most common in Nondenominational churches, I've found. The sorts of people who always say, "It's not a religion, it's a ruhhh layy shun ship!"
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I am very much of the view that God intends to have fellowship with His children, direct, intimate communion with them, not merely a second-hand interaction with them through the services, rituals and teaching of the institutionalized Church. This is indicated in verses like 1 Corinthians 1:9, 2 Corinthians 13:14, 1 John 1:3; Galatians 5:16, 25, etc. Though God intends we should experience Him "up close, and personal," since He is God, not just some super-powered human, our fellowship with Him cannot be casual, irreverent, or trite. For many believers, however, their desire to have a relatable God has meant that He is made small and trivial - but very approachable. I believe that such a God doesn't actually exist and when Christians try to connect to Him, they are only really just connecting to themselves.

kdm1984 said:
These types are on the Internet, but less often, and usually don't do well in theological debate, as they approach God from a more relational/emotionalistic point of view. There's no "reasoning" them into your position. Reformed/Calvinists usually try that approach, but it falls on deaf ears, because the relational sorts don't use that approach.
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I think the conflict arises along philosophical lines, fundamentally. Among professing believers today, there is the idea that Truth is "up for grabs," that God's word is highly malleable and may be twisted and shaped to the individual's preferences and beliefs. This thinking reflects the encroachment of worldly philosophies, like relativism, post-modernism and moral subjectivism, into the Church. The Bible isn't really as confusing and amorphous as these philosophies encourage people to think it is; actually, it's pretty exclusivistic and rigid, as the Truth in other areas usually is (math, chemistry, biology, geometry, mechanical engineering, etc.). To those who've grown used to being the Final Arbiter of Truth, the idea that the Bible is above them, constraining them and making demands of them, is a very hard pill to swallow. And so, when someone like me comes along and points out that the Bible has much more to say about Jesus than that he's their "buddy," well, these individual-centered, I'm-the-Final-Arbiter-of-Truth types get very bent out of shape.

kdm1984 said:
There was a time when I tried to argue with everyone on the Internet, so I ran into Reformed types all the time. :biggrin2 I even used Scripture! But I try to do less arguing these days. It still happens, but I've found that people usually already have their minds made up, and it seems like a waste of time, maybe even a violation on my part of Titus 3:9.
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I will contend with detractors for the sake of the silent majority of readers of a thread, who are trying to make up their minds about God's Truth. Sometimes, though, as in the case of some in this thread, the goal seems only to argue and obscure, even coming close to trolling, in my view. With them, I tend to draw out their poor thinking skills and the various fallacies of reasoning under which they're operating. At times, though, things become so silly there's no point in continuing discussion.

kdm1984 said:
FWIW, I'm Lutheran, and we don't do the "Jesus is your buddy" thing. I saw it all the time when I went to Calvary Chapel (Nondenominational) though, from 2013-2017.
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I grew up in a pretty...conservative Baptist church milieu. Thankfully, I was encouraged to think carefully about my faith, to make proper distinctions among concepts, and to have a well-reasoned Scripture hermeneutic. Ironically, this often puts me at odds with modern Christians who've been saturated with post-modernism and now the new, delusional Woke ideology of Neo Marxism. But, I've been posting online in forums like this one for a very long time and my skin is pretty thick. Opposition and ad hominem don't bother me.

Anyway, thanks for your response.
 
Hidden In Him said:
I read through your piece, Tenchi, and it's decent enough. I wouldn't take it out of the realm of any earthly frame of reference completely, however, for it is said of Abraham that he became the friend of God, and it's also said of the church that we now cry out to Him, calling Him "Abba Father."
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Yes, I've acknowledged this several times now in this thread.

Hidden In Him said:
My every day is spent submitting to Him as Lord, so my life is very much as a slave to Him in that respect, and we are nowhere near on the same level inter-relationally. But I do believe I could rely on Him to be my friend in times of need.
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I'm not clear on the distinctions you're making here between slave and friend. Being submitted to God doesn't exclude intimate communion with Him; the former is a necessary prerequisite for the latter, actually. I find the more my life is properly yielded to God's control, the richer and deeper my fellowship with Him is. I refer to "fellowship" here, rather than "friendship," because folks these days tend to think of friends as equals which, in God's case, is a blasphemous notion. Anyway, the problem that some in this thread appear to have is understanding that intimacy with God doesn't require diminishing Him. One can be a bond-slave to Him and enjoy incredible fellowship with Him, too. In fact, such fellowship cannot happen apart from being a "living sacrifice" to God, a bond-slave to His will and way.

Hidden In Him said:
He's just a really BIG buddy is all, Lol.
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If the record of Scripture is true - and I believe it is - "really big" doesn't begin to express the true enormity of God, His indescribable awesomeness. Yes, He's my Heavenly Father, but He's also the One who can destroy both body and soul in hell. Yes, God comforts me by His Spirit, sticking closer than a brother to me, but He is still also the Alpha and Omega, having no beginning or end, all-powerful and all-knowing, and everywhere present at all times. I'm not trying to discourage folks from drawing close to God; I'm just reminding them that the "throne of grace" that they may boldly approach is a THRONE, not a sofa or rocking chair.
 
Tenchi said:
Yes, I've acknowledged this several times now in this thread.
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Who mentioned that Abraham was called a friend of God, or the verse about Abba Father? I wasn't going to respond, but then I kept reading posts and no one seemed to be bringing it up. I must have missed it somewhere.
Tenchi said:
If the record of Scripture is true - and I believe it is - "really big" doesn't begin to express the true enormity of God
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I was tongue in cheek.
Tenchi said:
One can be a bond-slave to Him and enjoy incredible fellowship with Him, too. In fact, such fellowship cannot happen apart from being a "living sacrifice" to God, a bond-slave to His will and way.
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The fellowship is enjoyable, but if the gospel is not true we are the most miserable and foolish of men, because the life itself is torturous.
 
Hidden In Him said:
Who mentioned that Abraham was called a friend of God,
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Friend

II Chronicles 20:7:
Are not you our God, who did drive out the inhabitants of this land before your people Israel, and gave it to the seed of Abraham your friend for ever?
Isaiah 41:8:
But you, Israel, are my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.
James 2:23:
And the scripture was fulfilled which said, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed to him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.



Hidden In Him said:
or the verse about Abba Father?
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Abba

Mark 14:36:
And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible to you; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what you will.
Romans 8:15:
For you have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but you have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Galatians 4:6:
And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
 
Paul Timothy said:
Friend

II Chronicles 20:7:
Are not you our God, who did drive out the inhabitants of this land before your people Israel, and gave it to the seed of Abraham your friend for ever?
Isaiah 41:8:
But you, Israel, are my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.
James 2:23:
And the scripture was fulfilled which said, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed to him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.




Abba

Mark 14:36:
And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible to you; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what you will.
Romans 8:15:
For you have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but you have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Galatians 4:6:
And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
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There it is now, Lol.
 
Tenchi said:
Colossians 1:15-20
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
19 For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,
20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.
​

Jesus is not your buddy. Oh, he loves you dearly, of course, setting aside his heavenly glory, enduring deep humiliation in becoming human, and dying for you at the hands of evil men so that you might escape the penalty and power of your sin and enjoy daily fellowship with God the Father (Philippians 2:5-9; 2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 John 1:3). Yes, Jesus’s love for you is pretty shocking, actually. But this doesn’t mean we can approach him any old way we like.

Modern, western Christians, though, are eager for a relatable Savior, a God with whom they can “connect.” Often, this means God is brought down to a human level, his deity subjected to his humanity. We can, after all, relate best with someone who’s just like us. And so, many western Christians shape Jesus after their own image: For some, he is made into a sort of semi-boyfriend, a near-lover in whose arms they can be held, and upon whose chest they can rest their head, looking up into his startling blue eyes, his creamy skin glowing faintly with supernatural light, inspiring pseudo-romantic emotions of admiration, affection and perhaps even passion (but of a holy sort, naturally). Others want a snuggle-toy, a kind of security-blanket-Jesus who lifts them onto his lap, hugging and protecting them from all of life’s difficulties; he’ll make them feel warm, and safe, and confident that everything’s going to be all right. Still others want a “dude,” a best-bud they can take with them fishing, or to the football game, or to the gym; who always approves and supports whatever they’re doing; a kind of positive life-coach with whom they can just “let it all hang out” and feel accepted and encouraged.

Each of these kinds of Jesus draw from human experience and desire, conforming the Creator, Savior and Lord of All, to a finite, earthly frame of reference. “So what?” some rejoin, “Did he not become one of us? Does he not ‘remember that we are dust’? Was he not in all points tempted like we are? Jesus has walked in our shoes as a human being, suffering hunger, thirst, and tiredness, sore feet and aching muscles, cold and heat, and terrible pain, and so we do no wrong in approaching him as one of us. That was the whole point, wasn’t it, of his becoming a man? He came to earth so that he might better relate with us.”

Is this really the case? Did Jesus come to earth to be our boyfriend, security blanket or buddy? Is Jesus one of us? Are we his equal or near-equal and able therefore to interact with him as such? Not hardly.

The Incarnation wasn’t aimed at relatability, but at atonement and redemption. Jesus came to earth to be “the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world” (John 1:29), our Redeemer and Savior. His goal in becoming the God-Man was to make a way through himself for sinners to be reconciled to their holy Maker, not to make us comfortable with a human-sized God.

After his resurrection, Jesus returned to his heavenly glory. We are given a description of who he is now in the Revelation of the apostle John:

Revelation 1:12-18
12 And I turned to see the voice that spoke to me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the feet, and girded about the chest with a golden band.
14 His head and his hair were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if refined in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shining in its strength.
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, “Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he who lives, and was dead; and, behold, I live forevermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

​
Jesus is our Friend, but he is unlike any other friend we might have. As John’s description here reveals, we are not dealing with just another human that we can approach as it suits us to do. Forget snuggling up to Jesus; like John, seeing the glorified and ascended Christ would drop you to the ground in terror! Imagine staring into the flaming eyes of Jesus, his face radiating light like the noon-day sun! I doubt sentimental, semi-romantic thoughts would fill your mind. How snuggly do you think you would find God the Son, in whose hand seven stars are held and out of whose mouth flies a two-edged sword? Not very, I suspect. How chummy would you be with the One who holds the keys of Hell and Death, who is the Almighty Alpha and Omega, whose voice roars like crashing waves of the ocean? Are you really going to just hang out with him watching Netflix, or playing God of War? I think not.

Yes, Jesus is our Friend – the best we can possibly have - but he is also our Creator, Savior and Lord. When we approach him, it is to a heavenly King seated on his throne (Hebrews 4:16); when we come to our Savior, it is to he who is “the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation”; when we “draw near in full assurance of faith” to Christ, we find ourselves before the Creator and Sustainer of All Things, in whom everything holds together. Can we be casual, then, about our interactions with him? Ought we to make Christ a snuggle-toy, or boyfriend, or buddy? Obviously not.

Our salvation is not an end in itself. Beyond our redemption through Christ there is fellowship with God (1 Corinthians 1:9; 2 Corinthians 13:13; 1 John 1:3). But in our pursuit of intimate communion with God we must be careful not to diminish with whom we are interacting, to make God so relatable He becomes a mirror of us rather than our Master. We cannot properly fellowship with God when we’ve distorted Him into a buddy, boyfriend, or snuggle toy. No such God exists; those who think He does, worship their own imagination, they worship, really, themselves.

The comfort, rest and peace we find in God, the strength and joy we derive in walking with Him, arises, not from making God small, making Him as human as possible, but from seeing God “high and lifted up,” in all His stunning glory and power ruling the universe, but stooping in infinite grace and mercy to love us, too.


Revelation 19:11-16
11 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war.
12 His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself.
13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.
14 And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses.
15 From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.
16 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.​


Isaiah 6:1-3
1 … I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train of his robe filled the temple.
2 Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew.
3 And one called to another and said: “Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!”


1 Peter 5:6-7
6 Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you,
7 casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you.


Romans 12:1
1 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.​
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I deeply feel the same way. People struggle to see Him as He is. John said he "fell before Him as a dead man" when he seen Him in Revelation 1:17 keep in mind that John lived and walked with Him 3 years!! I've told folks many times that they have lost the reverent fear of the Lord. Reading Revelation 1-3 might change their outlook! He's the Almighty! Revelation 1:8
Praise God, we don't serve a wimp, He's The Mighty God, The Everlasting!
Hallelujah!
 
I dunno 🤷‍♂️

I talked to an elderly lifelong church person. She wants to meet all the Bible characters from her favorite stories in Heaven. I thought 💭 about it for a minute and…

I do hope she goes to heaven despite decades of bad teaching and emo centered practices. Maybe 🤔 part of the reason some churches ⛪️ teach buddy Christ is because he is more palatable more relatable than the Jesus of the good news of warnings of dark places where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth…

Maybe 🤔 it’s their corner of today’s religious economy?
 
Christ_empowered said:
I dunno 🤷‍♂️

I talked to an elderly lifelong church person. She wants to meet all the Bible characters from her favorite stories in Heaven. I thought 💭 about it for a minute and…

I do hope she goes to heaven despite decades of bad teaching and emo centered practices. Maybe 🤔 part of the reason some churches ⛪️ teach buddy Christ is because he is more palatable more relatable than the Jesus of the good news of warnings of dark places where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth…

Maybe 🤔 it’s their corner of today’s religious economy?
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This is certainly true.
The idea is to make it sound easy as can be,
Even if it's not biblical.
It was James that said teachers will be judged more harshly. They have a big responsibility.
 
And yet Jesus is still a friend that sticks closer than a brother and we can come boldly into the throne room and cry Abba Father.

Sounds rather buddy like to me.
 
Not to speak for Tenchi but I think 🤔 perhaps 🤔 a larger issue is the lack of awe of God and that which is holy. I dunno 🤷‍♂️ honestly I think 🧐 it’s largely modern culture. Even the Catholic Church now writes about confession in largely psychological terms.
 
My wife pointed out to me that the "beloved disciple," John, the one who laid his head upon Christ's breast, was the one who fell at Christ's feet as though dead when he saw Christ in his glorified, heavenly state. No buddy stuff. No semi-romantic snuggling. No casual, trivial jawing with God. Instead, John was so overcome by the awesomeness of Christ he couldn't remain standing in his presence. Buddy, indeed
 
Tenchi said:
My wife pointed out to me that the "beloved disciple," John, the one who laid his head upon Christ's breast, was the one who fell at Christ's feet as though dead when he saw Christ in his glorified, heavenly state. No buddy stuff. No semi-romantic snuggling. No casual, trivial jawing with God. Instead, John was so overcome by the awesomeness of Christ he couldn't remain standing in his presence. Buddy, indeed
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Sin ,the Holiness of Jesus and His Glorious state will overwhelm us .and yet Jesus showed mercy in that His Glory can kill men . I believe Moses was told that he can't see God's face or his Glory fully as it would kill him .Moses saw God's back and shine for days
 
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