The Cross Is From Paganism

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JLB said:
Thanks for making my point.

An upright stake is not wide enough to nail two hands and feet side by side.

The nails that large would split the edge of the stake off.

Both of Jesus hands had individual nail prints in them according to scripture.


If He was crucified on an upright stake He would have had one nail through both hands.
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John 20:25​

​

25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

please note it does not say the hole of the nail .it says nails ,. one in each hand means nails
 
locust said:
a 4x4 post would work in a pinch and it would be strong enough to carry a man.
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My reply was not about if a 4x4 post was strong enough to carry a man.

A 4” upright stake is not wide enough to allow for two feet to be placed side by side and have a nail driven through each foot or hand as your theory suggests.

A man’s foot is wider than 4 inches.

A man’s hand is 4 inches wide or more.



I believe you have just proved the point that Jesus was crucified on an upright cross.


Thanks. JLB
 
the picture of a nail that go's through a mans foot through the heal bone would indicate the foot was on the side of the shaft of wood . same would be true of the hands . try this, stand with your back against a pole ,then reach back with both hands to grasp the shaft . Then push past till the wrist is centered on the shaft .then imagine the nails going through the wrist . yep even a 4X4 has enough room for that .
 
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JLB said:
Could you please share the scriptures that teach us, that Jesus was God’s “special adopted son”?



JLB
Click to expand...
You are my son

Christ was adopted by the Father to be His son.

Psalm 2:7
I will proclaim the Lord’s decree: He said to me, “You are my son; today I have become your father.

Mark 1:11
And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”

Luke 3:22
and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”

Acts 13:33
he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm: “‘You are my son; today I have become your father.’

Hebrews 1:5
For to which of the messengers did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father”? Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”?

Hebrews 5:5
In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father.”



John 10:36
what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

2 Samuel 7:14
I will be his father, and he will be my son. When he does wrong, I will punish him with a rod wielded by men, with floggings inflicted by human hands.




1 Chronicles 17:13
I will be his father, and he will be my son. I will never take my love away from him, as I took it away from your predecessor.

1 Chronicles 22:10
He is the one who will build a house for my Name. He will be my son, and I will be his father. And I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever.’



What does the Greek word begotten mean?

It is claimed that Arian arguments that used texts that refer to Christ as God's "only begotten Son" are based on a misunderstanding of the Greek word monogenēs and that the Greek word does not mean "begotten" in the sense we beget children but means "having no peer, or, unique".

Monogenes has two primary definitions, "pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship" and "pertaining to being the only one of its kind or class, unique in kind."
 
Free said:
No. The cross is how Romans crucified people. It’s a symbol of Christ’s atoning death.

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/crucifixion/ancient-crucifixion-images/

It was used early, but not always in plain sight:

https://www.jesuswalk.com/christian-symbols/cross.htm
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Exodus 20:4 “You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the waters under the earth. You must not bow down to them nor be enticed to serve them,
 
locust said:
Exodus 20:4 “You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the waters under the earth. You must not bow down to them nor be enticed to serve them,
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Okay, and your point is what, exactly?
 
CherubRam said:
You are my son

Christ was adopted by the Father to be His son.
Click to expand...

Sorry but there is nothing here about Jesus Christ being adopted.


Jesus Christ is the only begotten of the Father.

He certainly is not adopted.


No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18



Jesus Christ is God (the Son) who became flesh.


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16




JLB
 
JLB said:
Sorry but there is nothing here about Jesus Christ being adopted.


Jesus Christ is the only begotten of the Father.

He certainly is not adopted.


No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18



Jesus Christ is God (the Son) who became flesh.


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16




JLB
Click to expand...

1 Timothy 3:16 NIV - Beyond all question, the mystery from​

Bible Gateway
https://www.biblegateway.com › passage › search=1 Ti...




He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world,

IMHO it reads better if ya don't try to change it
 
locust said:

1 Timothy 3:16 NIV - Beyond all question, the mystery from​

Bible Gateway
https://www.biblegateway.com › passage › search=1 Ti...




He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world,

IMHO it reads better if ya don't try to change it
Click to expand...

Newer versions have changed the original to try and erase the divinity of Christ.

A little study shows the truth from the context.


IMG_1356.jpeg

The word God G2316 is also found in the previous verse two times.

The word G2316 is Theos and is seen throughout the New Testament and rendered as God.


So next time do a little study to show yourself approved unto God a workman that is needs not to be ashamed of what you write, rightfully dividing the word of truth.
 
JLB said:
Newer versions have changed the original to try and erase the divinity of Christ.

A little study shows the truth from the context.


View attachment 17360

The word God G2316 is also found in the previous verse two times.

The word G2316 is Theos and is seen throughout the New Testament and rendered as God.


So next time do a little study to show yourself approved unto God a workman that is needs not to be ashamed of what you write, rightfully dividing the word of truth.
Click to expand...
a prime example of bad information in means bad information out. You are using erroneous information which gives erroneous results.
 
locust said:
a prime example of bad information in means bad information out. You are using erroneous information which gives erroneous results.
Click to expand...

You will have to do better than just denying the truth.

Please take notice of the previous verse. Verse 15, where "God" is used twice.

The word in Greek is Theos; God.

This same Greek word is used in verse 16 where it say God was manifested in the flesh.
G2316 is Theos. It refers to God throughout the New Testament.


1733762850414.png
 
JLB said:
You will have to do better than just denying the truth.

Please take notice of the previous verse. Verse 15, where "God" is used twice.

The word in Greek is Theos; God.

This same Greek word is used in verse 16 where it say God was manifested in the flesh.
G2316 is Theos. It refers to God throughout the New Testament.


View attachment 17362
Click to expand...
that's from the KJV ? that's just about as bad as it gets .

any time ,when referring to the most high God ,the God almighty . a capital/upper case G is used . when referring to ''any'' other god , the lower case g is used .

you have made an attempt to make Jesus to be God . he answers to God as a subordinate.
 
JLB said:
Sorry but there is nothing here about Jesus Christ being adopted.


Jesus Christ is the only begotten of the Father.

He certainly is not adopted.


No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18



Jesus Christ is God (the Son) who became flesh.


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16




JLB
Click to expand...
If you do not see it, then there is nothing I can do for you.
 
locust said:
that's from the KJV ? that's just about as bad as it gets .

any time ,when referring to the most high God ,the God almighty . a capital/upper case G is used . when referring to ''any'' other god , the lower case g is used .

you have made an attempt to make Jesus to be God . he answers to God as a subordinate.
Click to expand...

14 These things I write to you, though I hope to come to you shortly; 15 but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. 16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory. 1 Timothy 3:14-16 NKJV


These three words that are rendered as God, are all the same Greek word Theos.

Theos is the Greek word for God.

G2316

Strongs 2316.png
 
CherubRam said:
If you do not see it, then there is nothing I can do for you.
Click to expand...

You have presented nothing but opinion.


I am producing scripture.


14 These things I write to you, though I hope to come to you shortly; 15 but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. 16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory. 1 Timothy 3:14-16 NKJV


These three words that are rendered as God, are all the same Greek word Theos.

Theos is the Greek word for God.

G2316



Strongs 2316.png
 
CherubRam said:
Show me where in the bible it says: "two natures in one person."
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We know he was truly human, so I won't make any arguments for that. As to his being also true deity:

Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit.
...
Mat 1:23 “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).

Mary conceived without sexual relations; it was a creative act of God that conceived Jesus. He was to be known also as Immanuel, "God with us."

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
...
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Self-evident.

Php 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Php 2:7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Also self-evident.

We also have Jesus's claims about himself:

Joh 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

Joh 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.
…
Joh 6:62 Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?

Joh 16:27 for the Father himself loves you, because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God.
Joh 16:28 I came from the Father and have come into the world, and now I am leaving the world and going to the Father.”

Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
…
Joh 17:8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me.

And this:

Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law,

It's worth noting that this is exactly what Matt. 1:18 is talking about.

(All ESV.)

Everything about Jesus in the NT points to him being both truly God and truly man.
 
JLB said:
Newer versions have changed the original to try and erase the divinity of Christ.
Click to expand...
No, that is fallaciously begging the question, on two counts. You're assuming that the KJV is correct and newer versions in error, and you're also assuming that newer versions are trying to "erase the divinity of Christ." The first is a question of what does the original say, and that is exactly what newer versions are trying to do. The second assumption is patently false, unless you're talking about one of the apostate versions like the NWT.
 
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