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  1. ObjMoVa

    Moral beliefs

    This act would clearly move toward the 'worst imaginable suffering for everyone'. Therefore the act of the creepy man hugging the girl is objectively wrong. A mother hugs her young child and the two feel happy and blissful, this moves us away from the 'worst imaginable suffering for everyone'...
  2. ObjMoVa

    Moral beliefs

    Well having a system of moral values doesn't require worship of anything, so the tree won't be an issue for me. And I think you are telling me to look around me for proof of God, and that if I don't believe that I can't see or understand him. Which one is it?
  3. ObjMoVa

    Moral beliefs

    The mythology of today was the theology of yesterday. When the masses prayed to Zeus and Athena, they didn't think they were praying to mythical beings, they fully believed they were praying to their Gods. The example I was trying to make works equally well with the modern religions...
  4. ObjMoVa

    Scientific proof of life after death?

    NDEs are very interesting, and they probably hold a lot of answers about the nature of human consciousness. The one thing that stops me from linking them to heaven or the afterlife is that they are near death experiences. None of these people actually died, so I don't think the things they see...
  5. ObjMoVa

    Hello all. An atheist with questions here.

    1. Thank you for the welcomes everyone! This forum has proven to be very informative, I'm glad I joined! 2. My previous signature was removed because it mentioned Jainism, (In my opinion not in any sort of promotional way). I of course do NOT believe that most Christians endorse the horrors...
  6. ObjMoVa

    Hello all. An atheist with questions here.

    Well I already know about Jesus and his story, not everything mind you, but I feel I have working understanding. So if you mean information, then I already know him. If you mean 'know' in a deeper way, like as in a personal relationship, then I haven't seen a good reason why I should put the...
  7. ObjMoVa

    Hello all. An atheist with questions here.

    For me, they would be one and the same.
  8. ObjMoVa

    Moral beliefs

    I am using well being to anchor moral values. That IS THE OBJECTIVE BASIS I am proposing. Are you seriously asking who says suffering is bad? Are you incapable of grasping that suffering would be bad no matter what? Sam Harris perfectly explains how crazy that assertion is. What if you met...
  9. ObjMoVa

    Moral beliefs

    1. I do believe in objective moral values (just in case nobody has "decoded" my username lol) 2. I hold that we can use logic and science alone to find the anchor for these values. 3. We can use human well-being to ground our moral values. 4. Hugging a child does nothing to reduce well-being...
  10. ObjMoVa

    God is a psychotic murderer

    Let me respond to a few points Jethro. 1. I am against the murder of children. I am not against abortion. 2. The laws of the United States of America are not based on religion, they are secular. To say the world of the atheist would have no justice is not correct at all. 3. I 100% agree...
  11. ObjMoVa

    Moral beliefs

    I believe that Deitrich was justified in wanting to kill Hitler, but not that a God justified them. Namely, if killing Hitler would stop genocide and help end WWII, then yes it is justified for him to want do so. But wanting to do so because it's part of your faith is not a way you can justify...
  12. ObjMoVa

    Moral beliefs

    I completely agree that if a prophet declares something by right of God's will and it doesn't happen, he has spoken presumptuously. What if a prophet said "on the morrow Poseidon will send a might storm to us!" and there is in fact a huge storm the next day. Can we safely assume Poseidon exists?
  13. ObjMoVa

    Moral beliefs

    Gary, I am absolutely not saying that. But you believe life starts at conception, that's a Christian point of view. Roeder was upholding his extreme belief in Christian ideologies. I'm glad to see you don't agree with his actions because of his faith, but there is no doubt his actions do stem...
  14. ObjMoVa

    Moral beliefs

    And I would love to hear everyone else's feelings as well! Was Roeder justified? Is he wrongly imprisoned for following God's will, which is Godly and Good?
  15. ObjMoVa

    Moral beliefs

    That's fine everybody, the example of the abortion doctor works fine too. On May 31, 2009 an american physician named George Tiller was shot and killed by Scott Roeder because "preborn children's lives were in imminent danger" said Roeder. Was the decision to believe in life at conception (a...
  16. ObjMoVa

    God is a psychotic murderer

    Excellent point Vaccine, God knows everything. The thing is, I can see the child die and I know for a fact that it's life has been cut short. I know for a fact that the child has been cut off from future experiences, I have made my decision to save both children based on evidence. It seems...
  17. ObjMoVa

    God is a psychotic murderer

    Reba, what would you do? Would you stop both men, or would you let the God-instructed man kill the child? This is not a logical fallacy like the "rock too heavy" line. Even an all powerful god couldn't make a square circle, a rock too heavy, etc.
  18. ObjMoVa

    Moral beliefs

    Reba, what about the example of the doctor I gave? This is not word play. Many gay people's lives are deeply, and irrevocably in some cases, affected because other people believe in a certain dogma. The fact that they cannot prove the reason behind this dogma, but still apply it to the lives...
  19. ObjMoVa

    Moral beliefs

    Deborah13, those making the claim have to provide proof of that claim. If you want to believe in God that's fine, but when people of faith say that they know what is best for other people because they know the will of God, I feel that warrants some proof. If my homosexual friend is told by a...
  20. ObjMoVa

    God is a psychotic murderer

    No, even if you created a religion that perfectly embodied everything I believe I would challenge its divinity. The man of faith rages against those who ask for proof! Funny how people who don't want to prove their beliefs call others selfish for doubting.
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