“But woe to you that are rich.â€

[MarkT]

It is not a sin to be rich, God grants us riches! It is sinful to be MISERLY. If you do not give to your fellow man what God gives to you, then that is sinful.

That’s O.K.

But understand the spiritual things. Having money is a terrible burden. Money and the desire for money can occupy all of your thoughts. I’m not counting the rich who delight in the pleasures of this world. I’m just saying from experience what having a lot of money can do to a man. If a man spends his day counting his money, he can not serve God. No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You can’t serve God and mammon. Mt. 7:24 His mind is set on the things of this world, to get more (for those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh). The mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God. Ro. 8:7

But there’s more. To live one must have water; we thirst for the words of God. To understand we must hear first. The Spirit has to lead us to water. But understanding comes from God. Even so, the man hears the word of the kingdom and he understands but the cares of the world and the delight in riches choke the word and it proves unfruitful. The word is close to your lips. It springs from the heart. But if the desire of your heart is money, then the word can’t get out. It doesn’t come to mind. It doesn’t leave the mouth. So what was sown proves unfruitful.

And even worse you might forget God and begin to live like everyone else instead of seeking, finding, entering; for the door is open. Don’t wait for the day of judgment to enter the kingdom, like those who will say they did many works in his name. Enter, find pasture. For when the door is closed many will knock and they will not be able to enter.

Luke 13:25 RSV
When once the householder has risen up and shut the door, you will begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, 'Lord, open to us.' He will answer you, 'I do not know where you come from.'

Revelation 3:20 RSV
Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if any one hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.

Then again, the man may enter and find pasture. He eats and drinks, but the desire for riches chokes the word and it proves unfruitful. I hope my words prove fruitful.

 

[Adullam]

I have seen people who hold onto a little wealth with a great tenacity, and people who hold onto greater wealth with a great abandon.

I believe it's the attitude that counts the most. Remember how the woman who poured the ointment on Jesus' head could have sold it rather and given the proceeds to the poor. Man has difficulty when judging the use of wealth in others. We can be motivated by jealousy and a host of other deficiencies.

 

[Mike]

I have seen people who hold onto a little wealth with a great tenacity, and people who hold onto greater wealth with a great abandon.

I believe it's the attitude that counts the most. Remember how the woman who poured the ointment on Jesus' head could have sold it rather and given the proceeds to the poor. Man has difficulty when judging the use of wealth in others. We can be motivated by jealousy and a host of other deficiencies.

True dat!!! Well said

 

[MarkT]

Re: “But woe to you that are rich.â€
by Adullam on Fri Jun 18, 2010 1:55 am

I have seen people who hold onto a little wealth with a great tenacity, and people who hold onto greater wealth with a great abandon.

I believe it's the attitude that counts the most. Remember how the woman who poured the ointment on Jesus' head could have sold it rather and given the proceeds to the poor. Man has difficulty when judging the use of wealth in others. We can be motivated by jealousy and a host of other deficiencies.

You mean they give it away. They are generous. O.K. But even the godless would agree. They know how to take care of their own. Actually they're pretty zealous about it. They'll even take your money and give it to the poor.

But this teaching is more than that. I’m referring to Mt. 19: 23,24

This teaching applies to believers and non believers, Jews and Gentiles; the rich will find it nearly impossible to enter the kingdom. The godless rich love their things; their big homes, their expensive cars etc. They love being rich. We don’t. They have their consolation in this life. But we take no pleasure in it. It only causes us trouble. Still the things that belong to this world do affect us.

It is meant for our ears that all things are possible with God. The godless don’t hear or believe. But why do we need this teaching? To give us hope. In Christ we will be saved. Because we are not known to God by our good deeds. God knows who we are. Jesus knows his own. His sheep follow him.

The young man who asked Jesus what good deed he needed to do to have eternal life was rich. Mt.19: 16 He knew the law. He kept the commandments. But Jesus told him to sell all that he had and give it away to be perfect, and to follow him. When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions. Even the disciples were amazed. Give it all away? Who can be saved?

Only those with experience can really know. The desire for money is a thorn in our side. The cares of this world and the desire for riches grab at the throat; they choke the word. God gives us words to give us hope and to give others hope. But those words don’t come out. If salt loses its saltness, it is thrown away. God takes away from them and gives to others.

Luke 6:24 RSV
"But woe to you that are rich, for you have received your consolation.

This is another teaching. This is how we look at the world, at the rich. The rich got rich as a consolation, that is, God gives them the good life for a time. But in the next life they will mourn and weep. Maybe they will be destroyed. But at the very least they will hunger.

 

[MarkT]

I have seen people who hold onto a little wealth with a great tenacity, and people who hold onto greater wealth with a great abandon.

I believe it's the attitude that counts the most. Remember how the woman who poured the ointment on Jesus' head could have sold it rather and given the proceeds to the poor. Man has difficulty when judging the use of wealth in others. We can be motivated by jealousy and a host of other deficiencies.

She will be remembered for what she did for Jesus. She put him first. That's your lesson. Christianity isn't about feeding the poor. More importantly it's about feeding the poor in spirit; giving them the good news, giving them hope. It's about how we treat our brother and how the world treats us.

 

[Nick]

I think Drew made a good point in that us generally in the Western countries are so rich compared to people in say Africa. 20% of the world's population have 80% of the wealth and power (that's us folks!)

We therefore have a responsibilty to be helping those in countries less fortunate than us. We are able to give, so why not?

I have seen people who hold onto a little wealth with a great tenacity, and people who hold onto greater wealth with a great abandon.

I believe it's the attitude that counts the most. Remember how the woman who poured the ointment on Jesus' head could have sold it rather and given the proceeds to the poor. Man has difficulty when judging the use of wealth in others. We can be motivated by jealousy and a host of other deficiencies.

drew in america many wont have a retirement as that is becoming a thing of the past.

i work for the government, and its not looking good for us! many are retiring early so that can get something.(decent health plans).

the towns to the southn of me are laying off cops. its that bad in america.

That's sad. How's the superannuation program going? That's where the future in retirement is, not governmetn pensions.

 

[Pard]

That's sad. How's the superannuation program going? That's where the future in retirement is, not governmetn pensions.

Actually, the future of retirment is in PRIVATE pension plans... but this is another topic all together!

 

[jasoncran]

nick, unless fixed it wont be around for me or those younger. as its in the red.

each yr it gets harder and harder to save. things dont bode well for me if the city sells its power or water grid. as we are getting rid of positions as people retire and one guy in the solid waste department may get laid off as well. :verysad

pard, see the above statement hard to save when ones house payment is over 1500.00 a month( i pay extra) .

 

[Nick]

nick, unless fixed it wont be around for me or those younger. as its in the red.

each yr it gets harder and harder to save. things dont bode well for me if the city sells its power or water grid. as we are getting rid of positions as people retire and one guy in the solid waste department may get laid off as well. :verysad

pard, see the above statement hard to save when ones house payment is over 1500.00 a month( i pay extra) .

In Australia it is compulsary for employers to take 12% of one's salary and put it in their private superannuation fund for retirement. We can put more in if we wish. This is the future. The government cannot afford pensions for the booming ageing population. It's in the red already.

That's sad. How's the superannuation program going? That's where the future in retirement is, not governmetn pensions.

Actually, the future of retirment is in PRIVATE pension plans... but this is another topic all together!

That's exactly what I'm saying - privately funded and invested superannuation plans - not the government.

But yes, this is another topic. totopic (sorry if I helped this tangent)

 

[jasoncran]

actually it relates, as we lower class have to deal with this.

 

[Free]

I do not think it is a sin to have riches since God does bless people with them. However, they are not something to be sought nor held onto tightly. There is a balance to be found:

Prov 30:7-9, 7 Two things I ask of you; deny them not to me before I die: 8 Remove far from me falsehood and lying; give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with the food that is needful for me, 9 lest I be full and deny you and say, "Who is the LORD?" or lest I be poor and steal and profane the name of my God.

 

[jasoncran]

yes, and sadly that many churches in the western culture preach that wealth is a sign of God's approval when that aint the truth.

 

[Free]

yes, and sadly that many churches in the western culture preach that wealth is a sign of God's approval when that aint the truth.

The so-called "health and wealth" or "prosperity" gospel is not a gospel at all and not of God. It is too bad it is allowed to continue being taught as though it is a revelation from Scripture and approved by the Church. It can be a sign of God's blessing but that neither means all wealthy people are blessed of God nor that the poor are not.

 

[Bugala]

Really good explanation that "Its not the Richness, but your attitude towards it" comment.

Just one more thing that came to my mind to this relativity of being rich.

For lets compare ourselves to people in India.

There are lots of people without even home. Now I think its reasonable to have a home. BUT, i dont think compared to them it is reasonable that we also have Electricity. For do you really need Electricity? You could save all those electric bills and use them to buy houses for those Indians who dont have one.

And even more, there are even so poor people in India that they dont have enough money to buy even FOOD! And you think its reasonable that you use electricity to cook your food instead of using firewood to do it?

Im currently paying about 1 500 - 2 000 Euros a year from electricity. Thats enough to feed at least 5 - 7 people each year in India. and feed them well.

So is it right that I am using electricity while 7 people are starving?

if its sin to be rich, Im definitely rich by using all that electricity instead of feeding them.

7 People starving just so that i could use computer and microwave.

But at least i have excuse for more than half of my electricity. For i live in a place that has Snow Winter. So i need electricity to heat my house. Although, once again, i could warm my house with wood.

So where are you rich sinner living? California or some other warn place? Then what are you rich guy doing using electricity?

And how big hosue do you have? Is there maybe several rooms for several people? Isnt it enough to have one bedroom for all to sleep at and then living room where they can spend other times, plus of course kitchen, bathroom etc. (small ones naturally). For if you live in 100 Squaremeter house, you can easily leave well enough say in... 50 Squaremeter hosue as well, and money that is saved on buying that house.

OH boy. Im pretty sure theres at least 10 hosues buyable to our poor Indian brothers with that money.

So are you living reasonably compared to your poor homeles starving Indian brothers?

- You filthy Sinner!

Go cut your electricity, move to smaller house, sell TV, Computer (unless you need it at work), car etc. and even more importantly, STOP buying those unnecessary movie tickets that could feed starving Indian for a week, And repent!

 

[jasoncran]

all that i have to use isnt extravagant.

 

[Bugala]

all that i have to use isnt extravagant.

Do you need to use electricity?
How about cell phone or even phone? couldnt you just use phone booth?
Do you really need more than small house to use where you can sleep, and cook. Actually you can do even showering in public swimming halls.

etc.

Thats the whole point. If we say that being rich is sin, and that we shouldnt use luxuries while others stuffer somewhere, then how can we have bigger than small house, electricity, etc. since definately when compared to homeless starving people, all that is rich luxury.

Theres not much things we actually need electricity for even in "need" basis when compared to homeless starving people on the other end of line.

Turn it otherway round. Would it be nice that you are homeless and starving just because someone wants to make hes life more comfortable by using microwave to heat his food?

 

[jasoncran]

Do you need to use electricity?
How about cell phone or even phone? couldnt you just use phone booth?
Do you really need more than small house to use where you can sleep, and cook. Actually you can do even showering in public swimming halls.
we dont have public swimming halls that are usable all the time, nor phone booths
etc.

Theres not much things we actually need electricity for even in "need" basis when compared to homeless starving people on the other end of line.

Turn it otherway round. Would it be nice that you are homeless and starving just because someone wants to make hes life more comfortable by using microwave to heat his food?[/quote]
i dont use the microwave alot and my house is only 1100 sq ft. under air. i was poor, so that wont work on me, i lived in a trailer that had no usable toilets and was condemnded by the florida epa. mold and holes and such like.

 

[Bugala]

At least Jason seems to be blameless in this matter.

And about cars comes one more thing to my mind.

People might argue they need car to go to work 10 miles away.

Well, my ex-girlfriends grandmother used to walk 30 miles both ways daily to go to work.

And although that propably wasnt usual to walk that far, it wasnt so rare either those days. So work place 10 miles away is not an excuse to buy a car that can be used to build maybe even many houses and food for plenty of people.

Especially new car. You can either buy an old bicycle or old car. But new, 20 000 USD car is definately a sin in this logic.


Hmm, but one more thing Jason. Did you ever go to movies or buy DVD, Books, Comics? Its once again maybe week worth of food for some people. So i could argue its once again that rich thing.


But just in case i say this too, before i seem too much like rich are saints.

I agree that if you have 1 billion USD in your pocket, and you are just keeping it all to yourself (supposing you didnt already give that 19 billion to end to that 1 billion first of course), i dont think you are walking in Gods path then. For i dont think Gods plan is for us to get 1 billion in our pockets just to keep them for ourselves and on our own pleasures while others are starving in this world.

But i do believe Gods plan is for everyone to have 1 Billion in pocket so that everyone in world has it. or actually there to be no money at all, as its not needed anymore, etc. But i doubt that will ever happen. Except in heaven where there is no money needed anymore nor any wars etc.

 

[jasoncran]

At least Jason seems to be blameless in this matter.

And about cars comes one more thing to my mind.

People might argue they need car to go to work 10 miles away.
i have walked alot when i was in the army, off duty mainly.

And although that propably wasnt usual to walk that far, it wasnt so rare either those days. So work place 10 miles away is not an excuse to buy a car that can be used to build maybe even many houses and food for plenty of people.uh what if you work at night in a high crime neighboorhood

Especially new car. You can either buy an old bicycle or old car. But new, 20 000 USD car is definately a sin in this logic.
one needs to spend at lest 5k to 6k for a decent running car or you will be fixing this, and my nissan is my work truck i put 50,000k a year on this truck throwing papers.

Hmm, but one more thing Jason. Did you ever go to movies or buy DVD, Books, Comics? Its once again maybe week worth of food for some people. So i could argue its once again that rich thing.even in poor countries they entertain themselves, i have seem them do it. i was in afghanistan.

 

[MarkT]

At least Jason seems to be blameless in this matter.

And about cars comes one more thing to my mind.

People might argue they need car to go to work 10 miles away.

Well, my ex-girlfriends grandmother used to walk 30 miles both ways daily to go to work.

And although that propably wasnt usual to walk that far, it wasnt so rare either those days. So work place 10 miles away is not an excuse to buy a car that can be used to build maybe even many houses and food for plenty of people.

Especially new car. You can either buy an old bicycle or old car. But new, 20 000 USD car is definately a sin in this logic.


Hmm, but one more thing Jason. Did you ever go to movies or buy DVD, Books, Comics? Its once again maybe week worth of food for some people. So i could argue its once again that rich thing.


But just in case i say this too, before i seem too much like rich are saints.

I agree that if you have 1 billion USD in your pocket, and you are just keeping it all to yourself (supposing you didnt already give that 19 billion to end to that 1 billion first of course), i dont think you are walking in Gods path then. For i dont think Gods plan is for us to get 1 billion in our pockets just to keep them for ourselves and on our own pleasures while others are starving in this world.

But i do believe Gods plan is for everyone to have 1 Billion in pocket so that everyone in world has it. or actually there to be no money at all, as its not needed anymore, etc. But i doubt that will ever happen. Except in heaven where there is no money needed anymore nor any wars etc.

Tell your people to stop making idols and to pray to God for forgiveness. Then maybe God will stop punishing your people. You won't get anything from God until you fall down before the Lord Jesus Christ and all your monkey gods and your elephant gods are broken to pieces.