The father the one with power does the appointing. He appoints the Son of man Jesus the chief apostle also called Michael. . which begs a question as in. . . who is like God? No man, not the Son of man, Jesus our brother in the Lord.
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˒ĕlōhı̂m: Plural Persons, or Majesty?
- Thread starter SolaScriptura
- Start date
First born as those born again previously Jesus Son of man (dying mankind) having been born again sons of God all believers . The word Angel is a fake word needed to develop a legion of disembodied gods some called patron saints.
The english translation of the Greek Angelos is "messenger" not "angel " a fake word . How beautiful are the feet of the apostles as messengers sent with the gospel .
Not angels sent with the gospel. Our father that dwells in those yoked with Christ he alone has the power to raise the dead ..he needs no outside help other then his apostles No such thing as a invisible creation called angel
God is not a Jewish man neither German or Chinese.
Plural -Super or Chief Apostles's not Chief Apostle. That shouldn't suggest Christ or Arch Angel to you anyway.
Jesus is the mirror image of the Father alone. There is no other. "Only" Begotten who came down from the Fathers presence. John 1:18
The word became flesh. A body was prepared for Him. Hence as Jesus stated of Himself "The Son of Man"
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me; 6 with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased. 7 Then I said, 'Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll— I have come to do your will, my God.
The apostles paul sent messenger that some call ange prophesied the will of the unseen father . Paul was informing us he stands behind the chief apostle Jesus, the Son of man . I would think the apotle John secon place
2 Corinthians 11:5 For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles. . . . (Jesus the Son of dying mankind and when born again, the Son of God just like the rest of Christians. . sons of God. Jesus the first born again
Paul was not saying he is the chief arch messenger that some call angel (a fake word) to create the illusion of disembodied spirit gods .No such creation.
.
Christ speaking to Daniel about Michael.
Daniel 10:5-6
5 I looked up and there before me was a man dressed in linen, with a belt of fine gold from Uphaz around his waist. 6 His body was like topaz, his face like lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and his voice like the sound of a multitude.
Speaking of the last days.
Dan 10:14 Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.
Dan12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up,…
So how do we know the person speaking to Daniel is Christ, it is because the book of Revelation tells us so?
Revelation 1:13-15
13 and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man, dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters.
Revelation 2:18
To the Church in Thyatira
“To the messenger of the church in Thyatira write: These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze.
Odd.
Revelation 1:13
13 and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man, dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest.
The Greek text says his "breast" were bound. (girded) But the translators gave the interpretation "chest."
Although not impossible, just extremely unlikely. Perhaps someone thought it funny to replace the word "waist" with "breast."
Michael is not Yahshua.
I would agree with your offering .
As far as breast to chest now days gender sensitive neutral (chest) takes away the love that satisfies. Our loving husband Christ. The Bosom of Abraham the Holy Father of all the nations
Proverbs 5:19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.
I'm not sure of your point and its hard to follow what you just wrote.
BUT
The passage is about Paul defending His Apostleship
I wish that you would bear with me in a little foolishness; but [a]indeed you are bearing with me. 2 For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ.3 But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his trickery, your minds will be led astray from sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if [b]one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, this you tolerate very well! 5 For I consider myself not in the least inferior to the most eminent apostles. 6 But even if I am unskilled in speech, yet I am not so in knowledge; in fact, in every way we have made this evident to you in all things.
But what I am doing I will also continue to do, so that I may eliminate the opportunity from those who want an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the matter about which they are boasting. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds
The credentials of a true Apostle of the Lord
But in whatever respect anyone else is bold—I am speaking in foolishness—I too am bold. 22 Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they [g]descendants of Abraham? So am I. 23 Are they servants of Christ?—I am speaking as if insane—I more so; in far more labors, in far more imprisonments, beaten times without number, often in danger of death. 24 Five times I received from the Jews thirty-nine lashes. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, a night and a day I have spent adrift at sea.26 I have been on frequent journeys, in dangers from rivers, dangers from robbers, dangers from my countrymen, dangers from the Gentiles, dangers in the city, dangers in the wilderness, dangers at sea, dangers among false brothers; 27 I have been in labor and hardship, through many sleepless nights, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and [i]exposure. 28 Apart from such [j]external things, there is the daily pressure on me of concern for all the churches. 29 Who is weak without my being weak? Who is [k]led into sin [l]without my intense concern?
Yes the LORD is Jesus Christ.
Your verse confirms it.
Hebrews says the Son laid the foundation of the earth.
But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And:
“You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10
- You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
- The Son laid the foundation of the earth.
- The heavens are the works of the Son’s hands.
The Son is LORD; YHWH the LORD God
All you have done is deny what the scriptures so plainly say.
JLB
Greetings Randy,
Psalm 89:27 (KJV): Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
I believe that God made the creation with Jesus in mind and also God is making the New Creation in and through Jesus.
Jude 24–25 (KJV): 24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
One of these versions is corrupt and I will suggest that the Apostate Trinitarian Church was often willing to alter the text when it suited them.
Kind regards
Trevor
I am not sure as to what you are attempting to prove by this statement. I consider that Jude is referring to Zechariah 3 when the Angel of Yahweh is also called "Yahweh", but Jude identifies this "Yahweh" as Michael the Archangel. In the vision of Zechariah 3 Jesus is represented more by Joshua the High Priest, a human who was clothed in filthy garments.
Yes, Jesus is the Only Begotten of the Father. The One God, Yahweh, God the Father is the father of Jesus and Mary is his mother John 1:14,18, 3:16, Matthew 1:20-21, Luke 1:34-35. As such Jesus is a human, the Son of God by birth, character and resurrection.
He is the Firstborn, not because he was born "first", but has attained to that position.
Psalm 89:27 (KJV): Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
I believe that God made the creation with Jesus in mind and also God is making the New Creation in and through Jesus.
I agree.
I agree that they are distinct persons. Jesus is superior to all the Angels, including Michael.
Jesus is not God the Son, but the Son of God. Jesus had mortal, human nature, subject to death, but after his resurrection he has been glorified, and he is still a human with glorified Spirit nature, the same nature that the Angels possess.
I agree. Jesus is superior to the Angels both in His Sonship and in His Name.
You seem to endorse some of the modern translations, but I will hold to the KJV here:
Jude 24–25 (KJV): 24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
One of these versions is corrupt and I will suggest that the Apostate Trinitarian Church was often willing to alter the text when it suited them.
Kind regards
Trevor
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He clearly is writing of two different persons in the same passage of scripture.
Jesus is the only begotten who came from the Fathers presence John 1:18
He is the firstborn of all creation just as He is the firstborn from the dead. (first)
He is stated to be before all things. If you see Him as a Son then He is Gods firstborn
And such a being would make such a statement, "before Abraham was born, I Am"
the Christ is the most exalted not David Ref Psalm 89:27
God didn't make David His firstborn. He appointed His Firstborn to the line of David
And I will appoint him to be my firstborn,
the most exalted of the kings of the earth.
28 I will maintain my love to him forever,
and my covenant with him will never fail.
29 I will establish his line forever,
his throne as long as the heavens endure.
All the fullness of God was pleased to dwell in the firstborn of all creation -He is not Michael
Col 1:19 -The nature found in the word
Jesus has always been the Son
He sat with His "Father" on His "Fathers" throne
Again
He is all that the Father is for in Him all the fullness of the living God dwells
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being
Not sure what your point is here
Now to the one who is able to keep you from falling, and to cause you to stand, rejoicing, without blemish before his glorious presence, 25 to the only God our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, power, and authority, before all time, and now, and for all eternity. Amen.
"through" is consistent and a distinction made
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live
For this reason I kneel before the Father, 15from whom every family a in heaven and on earth derives its name.
About the person of the Father who sits on the throne in heaven
“You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.”
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.
The same writer of Hebrews people like to quote
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
God created "through" His Son.
God spoke to us in these last days BY His Son
as Jesus worded it , "The Father living in me" doing His work -they are one
God created BY His Son
I would state the same, the Father living in Him doing His work ,Col 1:19 -they are one
Please stop trying to distract from the truth of the scriptures by blaming Catholics.
Hebrews says the Son laid the foundation of the earth.
But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And:
“You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10
- You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
- The Son laid the foundation of the earth.
- The heavens are the works of the Son’s hands.
The Son is LORD; YHWH the LORD God
All you have done is deny what the scriptures so plainly say.
SolaScriptura
2024 Supporter
explain how this is Biblically?
Genesis 1:1 is very clear, "In the beginning GOD Created". Nothing about THROUGH anyone!
You act if understanding is from me. (through Him)
I gave my thoughts on it. All the fullness of the living God, (The Father), was the gifted nature of Jesus. Jesus is all that the Father is and they are ONE.
Col 1:19
God created by His Son.
The Father living in Him doing His work.
God spoke to us in these last days by His Son.
The Father living in Him doing His work.
The person of the Father on His throne in Heaven.
Rev 4
You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.”
Ephesians 3
For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being
1Corth 8
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
John 1
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
Hebrews 1
On many past occasions and in many different ways, God spoke to our fathers through the prophets. 2But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe.
Col 1 (For Him and through Him speaks of another)
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.
And every blessing you have received through Christ is from His God and Father.
That would be from the Father through His Son
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.
Reconciled to the Father through His Son
Col 1
For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, 20and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross.
God so loved the world
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
God exalted Jesus as Lord of all to His glory
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
Jesus has made us a Kingdom of priests to serve His God and Father
Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits a before his throne, 5and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
I do not take away from the Father nor His Son in regard to the creation.
SolaScriptura
2024 Supporter
my latest thread deals with this in depth
Is Creation By or Through Jesus Christ?
Is Creation By or Through Jesus Christ? Is Jesus Christ the actual Creator of the heavens and the earth, or is He simply the secondary cause? The early Church heretic, Origen, who lives in the 3rd century, wrote on John 1:3; “'All things came into being through him'. The agent 'through whom'...
christianforums.net
Its through, by, and for Jesus its from the Father and by His will, (Let us make), It's clear to me.
SolaScriptura
2024 Supporter
Let US Make, shows that Creation is JOINT between the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Not THROUGH, which is the wrong meaning of the prepositions
But it wasn't here and is stated "by" the Son.
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.
Besides from whom and through whom are given not assumed.
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
SolaScriptura
2024 Supporter
do you believe that Jesus Christ is YHWH?