“Full Assurance of Faith” (Hebrews 10:22)

[ezra]

question even though i do believe eternal security but in a different manner than others . at what point and what sin do we lose our salvation since it is the gift of God it is kept by the power of God . if we walk away but still believe in Christ do we still lose it ?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Paul, not me, says some among YOU say that there is no ressurrection of the dead. That's not twisting Scripture. It's simply reading it and believing it.

Some of them saying there is no resurrection is subsequent to them having received Paul's gospel of a risen savior, but you are twisting it to mean they, or some of them, received a gospel that did not include a risen savior right from the beginning.... a gospel that he did not even preach to them. But Paul plainly says they received and are standing on the gospel he preached to them at first--one with a risen savior (1 Corinthians 15:1,4 NASB).

 

[ezra]

I don't think Rollo's being inconsiderate. I think that if someone doesn't know someone personally that was saved and had faith, and then loses that faith, it's difficult to think that one could just stop loving God.

This might happen because a person's faith is not strong. I know a woman who was very involved in church, cleaning it, singing, the whole thing. Then her 14 year old son drowned. She abandoned God and no longer believed because she had been taught that God is a loving God.

Many times the above happens because people are not properly taught, as you've said yourself many times.
I do understand Rollo's point. One could not just wake up one morning and decide to stop loving God. In that sense he's correct.

Wondering

quick thought how do we know if they lost faith. do we judge them by actions? by words? have our actions or our words ever not of faith? did we lose our salvation . for the record i do not believe in living like hell and claim salvation.. what deems us Lost scripture thus saith the Lord

 

[GodsGrace]

quick thought how do we know if they lost faith. do we judge them by actions? by words? have our actions or our words ever not of faith? did we lose our salvation . for the record i do not believe in living like hell and claim salvation.. what deems us Lost scripture thus saith the Lord

I leave judging up to God.
I do want to say though that Jesus did say that you shall know the tree by its fruit.
When someone loves God there's a change in their life.
But we are not all the same, so there's a lot of slack that is to be given to everyone.
By this shall all men know that you are disciples of mine, that you love one another.
John 13:35

Wondering

 

[Jethro Bodine]

question even though i do believe eternal security but in a different manner than others . at what point and what sin do we lose our salvation since it is the gift of God it is kept by the power of God .

Faith is the ability to know something is true that you cannot in your humanness know is true (Hebrews 11:1 NASB). That is the gift of God--being able to know what you can't see is really true (not just hoping it's true, but knowing it's true), From there YOU, not God, then believes in that which God has shown you to be true. The believing you do is your response to the gift of faith that God gave you. Giving you faith is the part God does. Believing is what YOU do, albeit with loads of encouragement and help from God.

You lose your salvation when God knows that in your heart you are done with it....not struggling with it anymore...he knows you are done with it. Then he removes his gift of faith and turns you over to the rejection and trampling of the gospel you yourself have chosen.

if we walk away but still believe in Christ do we still lose it ?

By definition of what it means to believe, how is a person still believing in something they have walked away from?
You seem to be having a difficult time recognizing the difference between a lack of faith in daily living and relying on God's power to live right, and no longer believing in Christs sacrifice altogether. BIG difference. It is the latter that will cause you to eventually lose the salvation that God gave you.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

quick thought how do we know if they lost faith. do we judge them by actions? by words?

My wife finally just flat out told me. But I knew she did long ago by her life.

have our actions or our words ever not of faith? did we lose our salvation .

Faith in the blood, or faith in God's power to take care of us so we can choose to live righteously in obedience to him?

Your failure of faith in the blood is what will put you in danger of losing that which faith in the blood secures, your salvation (Hebrews 10:26-29 NASB). But your lack of faith in matters of trusting God when it comes to living righteously does not concern your salvation....unless your disobedience and struggle with righteous is the result of a fundamental lack of faith in the blood of Christ altogether.

 

[GodsGrace]

question even though i do believe eternal security but in a different manner than others . at what point and what sin do we lose our salvation since it is the gift of God it is kept by the power of God . if we walk away but still believe in Christ do we still lose it ?

This is for Jethro, but
What do you mean, "if we walk away but still believe in Christ..."

If you walk away, it means you don't believe in Christ anymore, no?

You asked me this same question some time ago and I answered it exactly like Jethro is going to.

You don't lose salvation because you sin. We're going to sin. We ask forgiveness and move on and try not to sin as best we can with the help of the Lord and the Holy Spirit.

We lose salvation because we stop believing in Jesus and his saving grace and sacrifice. NOT because we sin.

W

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I leave judging up to God.
I do want to say though that Jesus did say that you shall know the tree by its fruit.
When someone loves God there's a change in their life.
But we are not all the same, so there's a lot of slack that is to be given to everyone.
By this shall all men know that you are disciples of mine, that you love one another.
John 13:35

Wondering

I'm not quick to judge either. But it's clear that the person who makes no confession of faith in the blood, and even denies him, and lives in a lifestyle of sin is no longer saved. Even if I don't judge their eternal state I'm entitled to not consider them a believer any longer for my own safety and well being and that of the church (Matthew 18:17 NASB).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We lose salvation because we stop believing in Jesus and his saving grace and sacrifice. NOT because we sin.

Amen, sister.
(and you were going to leave the conversation?)

 

[GodsGrace]

Amen, sister.
(and you were going to leave the conversation?)

Ooops. I lied!
Confession time.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Ooops. I lied!
Confession time.

Too late......lost your salvation.

 

[GodsGrace]

Too late......lost your salvation.

Ezra might believe you.

 

[ezra]

If you walk away, it means you don't believe in Christ anymore, no?

really ? thats funny most of those i know who will not darken the church door use to attend church who heatedly believe the bible is true that jesus saves. . dont try tell me different the problem is most likely they was never saved or they refuse to hear the voice of Christ. i how ever noticed one thing in all your little pokes . "you never could show scripture that shows at what point the become lost again "
\

You don't lose salvation because you sin. We're going to sin. We ask forgiveness and move on and try not to sin as best we can with the help of the Lord and the Holy Spirit.

so what if we refuse to repent ? since sin does not cause you to lose salvation .

We lose salvation because we stop believing in Jesus and his saving grace and sacrifice. NOT because we sin.

not sure where you live at but around here almost everyone believes in jesus and his saving grace. they refuse it
Isaiah 59:2King James Version (KJV)
2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

King James Version (KJV) if they keep refusing
24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;

25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:

26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;

27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you. this is tough stuff all Bible

28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:

29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the Lord:
30 They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.

31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.

32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.

33 But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil. ( this is Bible) not some trumped up head belief

 

[ezra]

Ooops. I lied!
Confession time.

returned back to catholic ?

 

[GodsGrace]

returned back to catholic ?

No.
Don't you confess your sins??

 

[JLB]

I agree if you interpret "hear the Word" to mean not just hearing with the sense of hearing but understood and believed on.

I read what is written and believe what is written.

Faith comes by hearing the Word [rhema] of God.

There is no requirement that a person must understand and or believe the word to have faith.

There is however a requirement for a person to act on or obey, what they hear in order for their faith to be alive or activated to produce a divine result.

Faith without this corresponding action of obedience is dead [inactive]. ie: unable to produce the intended divine result.

It's the believing, together with the corresponding act of obedience that brings about the intended divine result.

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works [the work of obedience], and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says,“Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” James 2:22

...by works faith was made perfect.

Perfect here means complete, fulfilled in purpose or intent.

Example:

20 And suddenly, a woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years came from behind and touched the hem of His garment. 21 For she said to herself, “If only I may touch His garment, I shall be made well.” 22 But Jesus turned around, and when He saw her He said, “Be of good cheer, daughter; your faith has made you well.” And the woman was made well from that hour. Matthew 9:20-22

God moved upon this woman's heart to do a certain thing for the purpose of being healed of her affliction.

She had to choose to obey what God's had put in her heart to do.

She had faith, when God spoke or communicated to her to do this thing, but she had to act with obedience what she was told to do in order for her faith to produce the intended result of healing.

Be of good cheer, daughter; your faith has made you well.”

Likewise, it is by this same principle we are saved by hearing the Gospel message.

For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:9-13,16-17


JLB

 

[JLB]

"Those who believed Christ had risen did not believe a vain Gospel."

No one said anything about a vain Gospel, except you.

Believing in vain, is the discussion point.

You believed [past tense] in vain, if you don't hold fast the word [present tense] that was preached [past tense] to you.

The same thing John taught.

Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 1 John 2:24

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


JLB

 

[JLB]

returned back to catholic ?

Don't get her going...

 

[JLB]

No.
Don't you confess your sins??

:amen

 

[ezra]

No.
Don't you confess your sins??

yup sure do i take it to the throne of Grace