veteran said:
lecoop,
The chronology you're holding to is actually the Pre-Trib "secret rapture" doctrine, because you're trying to move the 7th trumpet to the midpoint of the great tribualtion.
The 7th trumpet is also the "last trump" Apostle Paul showed is when the resurrection happens, which is when Christ comes. That means the tribulation is ended on the 7th trumpet. The "great tribulation" our Lord Jesus taught in Matthew 24 is upon His servants, not the wicked. It's God's wrath that comes with Christ's coming on the day of The Lord that ends the great tribulation. I've already shown you several times where Apostles Paul and Peter declared 'the day of The Lord' happens with Christ's coming "as a thief" along with the pouring out of God's cup of wrath upon the wicked.
So long as there is any of Christ's servants on earth, regardless of WHEN they believe, Christ's coming will not have happenned yet, which means the tribulation will last until He does come to gather the whole Church. It's the Pre-Trib secret rapture doctrine along with Dispensationalism that came of that same era which wrongly teaches some will be left-behind that believe. God's Word does not teach anyone will be raptured prior to the great tribulation.
Veteran, you keep saying "I am trying to move" the 7th trumpet to the midpoint. Sorry, but IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN the exact midpoint. That is why the woman is fleeing moments after the 7th trumpet has sounded. She is CERTAINLY not scared of the sound of a trumpet!! But she is only following what Jesus wrote; when you SEE the abomination, RUN FOR YOUR LIFE.
No, Veteran, the 7th trump is CERTAINLY not the "last trump" of Paul. It may well be the last of John's series of trumpet blasts, but it is NOT Paul's last trump. That is only imagination - and cannot be proved by scripture. Pauls last trump is the final trump of another series, probably at the feast of trumpets. I can just see a man in Jersulalem with a ram's horn, about to blow, when suddenly the sky is FILLED with the sound of a heavenly trumpet! Yes, certainly Christ comes at Paul's last trump, but NOT to be seen by the world:
Heb 9
28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
When Christ comes for the church, He will ONLY be seen by those that LOOK for Him. The world will NOT be looking for Him, and of course will not SEE Him. He will appear ONLY for the church. Does that SOUND like it will be secret? It certainly does to me. This appearing cannot be equated with his "every eye shall behold Him" coming. Next, when He comes for the church, He goes BACK to heaven, to fulfill John 14. In Rev. 19, He comes to meet the battle of ARmageddon.
Certainly the beast will have NO REASON to go after those that have accepted the mark. But what you have missed is that while he is hunting down people to separate them from their heads, GOD IS pouring out the vials of His wrath. Sorry, but WE, the church, CANNOT be here. WHY is God allowing this to happen? This is speaking of the last half of the week, the same time as those days of great tribulation:
Dan 12
7And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
WHAT Holy people is Daniel speaking about? It can NOT be the church! This is speaking of the JEWS.
We have NO appoinment with His wrath, so we MUST be taken out before the 7th seal is broken. In fact, we are.
I've already shown you several times where Apostles Paul and Peter declared 'the day of The Lord' happens with Christ's coming "as a thief" along with the pouring out of God's cup of wrath upon the wicked.
The BIG question is, though, where do you see this in Revelation? (As compared to where JOhn saw it?)
Paul said that the day of the Lord would come as a thief. Well, how do you suppose the 6th seal comes? The SUDDEN DESTRUCTION is the world wide earthquake. But we are taken out, as the FIRST EVENT of the 6th seal. John saw the church in heaven, just after that 6th seal event. You still cannot see two comings, and Revelation will not make much sense with only one coming. Jesus CERTAINLY does not return to earth at the 7th trumpet. That is pure imagination. You cannot move the 7th trumpet into chapter 19. It does not fit there. You would have the woman fleeing after the week has finished. She would be fleeing the battle of ARmageddon, rather than the abomination! You MUST settle this: WHERE does John show God's wrath starting? It is at the 6th seal. You cannot take those verses out. Those people were wise enough to know that the signs they have just seen were the signs for the DAY OF the LORD. It seems they are wiser than many today.
So long as there is any of Christ's servants on earth, regardless of WHEN they believe, Christ's coming will not have happenned yet,
WHO SAID? John certainly did not say this. It is simply more imagination. There will be NEW BELIEVERS come to God in the first half of the week, and there will be MORE believers turn to God in the second half. The difference is, those that turn to God in the second half, will be a part of the millenial reign, IF they survive. BOTH of these groups will be on earth AFTER Jesus comes for His church.
HOW are you going to have sheep at the sheep and goal judgement - unless you push it off a thousand years? It is the judgement for WHO enters the millenial kingdom -so cannot be pushed off.
HOW are you going to populate the millennial kingdom with believers in the their natural body?
which means the tribulation will last until He does come to gather the whole Church.
Nonsense!! We cannot be here for ANY of the 70th week. It is
all His wrath - the entire 70th week. NO "tribulation" except for what is normal for the church today, will take place until AFTER the midpoint of the week - which, I might add, you want to MOVE. The midpoint is IN chapter 11. You cannot move it. The beast will be causing his "tribulation" from chapter 12 to somewhere in Chapter 16. This is JOHN'S chronology.
I am sorry, Veteran, but I cannot believe much of what you write, because it simply does not follow John's chronology.
Coop
