1 Corinthians 8:6 and The Holy Trinity

[SolaScriptura]

Once again, Jesus is a he and the "logos" is an it

FALSE statement!

We read of "the Logos" in verse 2, "He was in the beginning with God". "He" in the Greek is "ουτος", which is the MASCULINE gender!

In verse 3 we read, "All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being" "HIM", is also the MASCULINE "αὐτοῦ".

In verse 3 John says, "In Him was life, and the life was the light of men", again "HIM", is "αὐτῷ", which is also MASCULINE

Then, in 1 John 1-3 we read;

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us— that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ"

Notice that "The Word" is clearly JESUS CHRIST!

No arguments!

 

[SolaScriptura]

Where did the Bible ever say there is a hypostatic union? Paul wrote away the idea in Philippians 2

Philippians 2 and the Person of Jesus Christ

Philippians 2 and the Person of Jesus Christ In this passage from Philippians chapter 2, we have one of the clearest Accounts in the Bible, on the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ. We read of His absolute Deity from eternity past, “in the very nature of God”, and was coequal with the Father...

christianforums.net

 

[Randy]

Then he is forever not God.

Or rather it has always been and always will be the Father is in Him and He in the Father.
They are one. These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.

Yes we do disagree. I have no problem with that.

There is continuous disagreement hence a church identified of themselves as "biblical unitarians".

 

[Runningman]

So is God just a man as you believe?

??

I didn't say that's something I believe.

To what other MAN has God given such powers?

The same powers as Jesus according to the Bible.

 

[Runningman]

Philippians 2 and the Person of Jesus Christ

Philippians 2 and the Person of Jesus Christ In this passage from Philippians chapter 2, we have one of the clearest Accounts in the Bible, on the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ. We read of His absolute Deity from eternity past, “in the very nature of God”, and was coequal with the Father...

christianforums.net

Hypostatic union is debunked by Philippians 2, but especially verse 7. Lookie here, Jesus is a human and a servant. Therefore he isn't God.

7but emptied Himself,
taking the form of a servant,
being made in human likeness.

 

[Runningman]

a completely FALSE statement!

We read of "the Logos" in verse 2, "He was in the beginning with God". "He" in the Greek is "ουτος", which is the MASCULINE gender!

In verse 3 we read, "All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being" "HIM", is also the MASCULINE "αὐτοῦ".

In verse 3 John says, "In Him was life, and the life was the light of men", again "HIM", is "αὐτῷ", which is also MASCULINE

Then, in 1 John 1-3 we read;

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us— that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ"

Notice that "The Word" is clearly JESUS CHRIST!

No arguments!

Welcome back and thank you for adjusting your tone when directing your comments at me.

For John 1:1, in Greek, not using "the" before "God" means that "God" is more like a quality. So, it suggests that "the Word had the character of God," indicating it was godly.

 

[Runningman]

Or rather it has always been and always will be the Father is in Him and He in the Father.
They are one. These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.

And others can be filled with the fullness of God too. Jesus isn't unique in that regard.

Ephesians 3
19of the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

There is continuous disagreement hence a church identified of themselves as "biblical unitarians".

At least they are Biblical.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Welcome back and thank you for adjusting your tone when directing your comments at me.

For John 1:1, in Greek, not using "the" before "God" means that "God" is more like a quality. So, it suggests that "the Word had the character of God," indicating it was godly.

Look at John 8:54 in the Greek, "ο πατηρ μου ο δοξαζων με ον υμεις λεγετε οτι θεος υμων εστιν"

There the subject is "ο πατηρ", and had the definite article. "θεος", is the predicate, as in the last sentence of John 1:1, and does not have the article. According to your own words, the English should read, "the Father...is godly"!

Then we have John 1:18

“θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε μονογενὴς θεὸς ὁ ὢν εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ πατρὸς ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο”, literally, “God no one has seen at any time, the Unique God Who is always in close relation with the Father, He has made Him known” (my translation)

In both places there is no definite article in the Greek, “Θεὸν, θεὸς”, not, “τὸν θεόν, ὁ θεὸς”. It is either “God” in both places, or “god”, there are not grammatical grounds for one “God” and the other “god”

 

[Runningman]

shows your great lack in understanding Greek grammar!

look at John 8:54 in the Greek, "ο πατηρ μου ο δοξαζων με ον υμεις λεγετε οτι θεος υμων εστιν"

There the subject is "ο πατηρ", and had the definite article. "θεος", is the predicate, as in the last sentence of John 1:1, and does not have the article. According to your own words, the English should read, "the Father...is godly"!

Then we have John 1:18

“θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε μονογενὴς θεὸς ὁ ὢν εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ πατρὸς ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο”, literally, “God no one has seen at any time, the Unique God Who is always in close relation with the Father, He has made Him known” (my translation)

In both places there is no definite article in the Greek, “Θεὸν, θεὸς”, not, “τὸν θεόν, ὁ θεὸς”. It is either “God” in both places, or “god”, there are not grammatical grounds for one “God” and the other “god”

Some FREE Greek grammar education for you!

None of that undoes what I just said. The context informs the translation as well. God isn't simply just a "word." Words are an it like 1 John 1:-12 says. I hope that helps.

 

[Hidden In Him]

No I am not, you're blind.

Gentlemen, despite this being a good discussion early on, you are both devolving into derogatory remarks and responses at this point, and it leaves me no choice but to delete some posts and edit others and see if we can't get back on track. If not, I'll have no choice but to thread ban one or both of you.

Blessings in Christ,
Hidden In Him

 

[GodsGrace]

??

I didn't say that's something I believe.

In your very next post you proclaim that Jesus is a man.

Here is what you said: Post 126:

Hypostatic union is debunked by Philippians 2, but especially verse 7. Lookie here, Jesus is a human and a servant. Therefore he isn't God.

7but emptied Himself,
taking the form of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And, not only that, now you state that Jesus is only a servant.
Jesus came to SERVE US not to be served.
I fear that what you should be doing is entrusting yourself to someone that knows how to exegete the bible so that more understanding can be obtained.

Jesus was 100% man.
Jesus was 100% God.

THIS is the hypostatic Union.
Jesus had two natures, both perfectly expressed in the NT.

Jesus was fully man because He was born, He had physical limitations, He had emotions and He could be tempted.
He became tired, hungry, thirsty, sorrowful and He showed compassion.

Jesus was also fully God.
He had divine authority , forgave sins, performed miracles , and accepted worship .
Jesus had received the title of Emmanuel from the OT prophecy. This means GOD WITH US.
I and the Father are One declares that He IS ONE with God Father.
I AM declares that He lived from before He was born as a baby.

Because Jesus has a dual nature, He can serve as the perfect mediator between God and humanity (1 Timothy 2:5). As fully God, He possesses the divine authority to redeem humanity from sin (Matthew 20:28), conquer death (John 11:25), and reconcile us with God (Colossians 1:19–20). As fully man, He identifies with our struggles and sympathizes with our weaknesses (Hebrews 4:15). Importantly, He is the sacrificial lamb for our sins. (John 1:29), and through His life, death, and resurrection, He secured salvation for all who believe in Him (Hebrews 7:27).
source: https://www.gotquestions.org/fully-God-fully-man.html
The above source explains everything really well.
You should read it. Everything stated is biblical and verses are supplied.

It's very important that Jesus be both man and God so that He could be our redeemer.
Otherwise, if Jesus is just a man...
WE ARE LOST IN OUR SINS.

1 Corinthians 15:14-19
14and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain.
15Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised.
16For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised;
17and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.
18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
19If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.

RM, Do you know of any MAN that has been raisesd from the dead?
(except for those that Jesus raised).

The same powers as Jesus according to the Bible.

So YOU, or some other man, could raise a person from the dead?

(listen to yourself).

 

[Runningman]

In your very next post you proclaim that Jesus is a man.

Jesus confirmed that's true.

Here is what you said: Post 126:

Hypostatic union is debunked by Philippians 2, but especially verse 7. Lookie here, Jesus is a human and a servant. Therefore he isn't God.

7but emptied Himself,
taking the form of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And, not only that, now you state that Jesus is only a servant.
Jesus came to SERVE US not to be served.
I fear that what you should be doing is entrusting yourself to someone that knows how to exegete the bible so that more understanding can be obtained.

Jesus was 100% man.

Agreed.

Jesus was 100% God.

Jesus never said that.

THIS is the hypostatic Union.
Jesus had two natures, both perfectly expressed in the NT.

Philippians 2:7 says he isn't God.

Jesus was fully man because He was born, He had physical limitations, He had emotions and He could be tempted.
He became tired, hungry, thirsty, sorrowful and He showed compassion.

Opinion, commentary. (not-scripture)

Jesus was also fully God.

Not according to Jesus.

He had divine authority , forgave sins, performed miracles , and accepted worship .
Jesus had received the title of Emmanuel from the OT prophecy. This means GOD WITH US.
I and the Father are One declares that He IS ONE with God Father.
I AM declares that He lived from before He was born as a baby.

Any power or authority Jesus had was given to him by God, not given to him by himself because he isn't God.

Because Jesus has a dual nature, He can serve as the perfect mediator between God and humanity (1 Timothy 2:5). As fully God, He possesses the divine authority to redeem humanity from sin (Matthew 20:28), conquer death (John 11:25), and reconcile us with God (Colossians 1:19–20). As fully man, He identifies with our struggles and sympathizes with our weaknesses (Hebrews 4:15). Importantly, He is the sacrificial lamb for our sins. (John 1:29), and through His life, death, and resurrection, He secured salvation for all who believe in Him (Hebrews 7:27).
source: https://www.gotquestions.org/fully-God-fully-man.html
The above source explains everything really well.
You should read it. Everything stated is biblical and verses are supplied.

Paul wrote 1 Timothy 2:5, by some estimates, ~30 years after Jesus went to heaven. Paul called Jesus a man while Jesus is in heaven. Do you believe Jesus has a dual nature, a man god, while in heaven?

It's very important that Jesus be both man and God so that He could be our redeemer.
Otherwise, if Jesus is just a man...
WE ARE LOST IN OUR SINS.

That really isn't what the Bible says, though, is it?

1 Corinthians 15:14-19
14and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain.
15Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised.
16For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised;
17and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.
18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
19If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.

This is about Jesus being resurrected by God.

 

[SolaScriptura]

In your very next post you proclaim that Jesus is a man.

Here is what you said: Post 126:

Hypostatic union is debunked by Philippians 2, but especially verse 7. Lookie here, Jesus is a human and a servant. Therefore he isn't God.

7but emptied Himself,
taking the form of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And, not only that, now you state that Jesus is only a servant.
Jesus came to SERVE US not to be served.
I fear that what you should be doing is entrusting yourself to someone that knows how to exegete the bible so that more understanding can be obtained.

Jesus was 100% man.
Jesus was 100% God.

THIS is the hypostatic Union.
Jesus had two natures, both perfectly expressed in the NT.

Jesus was fully man because He was born, He had physical limitations, He had emotions and He could be tempted.
He became tired, hungry, thirsty, sorrowful and He showed compassion.

Jesus was also fully God.
He had divine authority , forgave sins, performed miracles , and accepted worship .
Jesus had received the title of Emmanuel from the OT prophecy. This means GOD WITH US.
I and the Father are One declares that He IS ONE with God Father.
I AM declares that He lived from before He was born as a baby.

Because Jesus has a dual nature, He can serve as the perfect mediator between God and humanity (1 Timothy 2:5). As fully God, He possesses the divine authority to redeem humanity from sin (Matthew 20:28), conquer death (John 11:25), and reconcile us with God (Colossians 1:19–20). As fully man, He identifies with our struggles and sympathizes with our weaknesses (Hebrews 4:15). Importantly, He is the sacrificial lamb for our sins. (John 1:29), and through His life, death, and resurrection, He secured salvation for all who believe in Him (Hebrews 7:27).
source: https://www.gotquestions.org/fully-God-fully-man.html
The above source explains everything really well.
You should read it. Everything stated is biblical and verses are supplied.

It's very important that Jesus be both man and God so that He could be our redeemer.
Otherwise, if Jesus is just a man...
WE ARE LOST IN OUR SINS.

1 Corinthians 15:14-19
14and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain.
15Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised.
16For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised;
17and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.
18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
19If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.

RM, Do you know of any MAN that has been raisesd from the dead?
(except for those that Jesus raised).



So YOU, or some other man, could raise a person from the dead?

(listen to yourself).

Jesus Christ's human nature is without sin so not sinful like all humans are

 

[Free]

Yes, He does as shown. “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.

Yes, Jesus told them already that he would send the Spirit and also ask the Father to send the Spirit in his name. That's the promise.

Fathers promose:In the last days I will pour out My Spirit...

When you're referencing the OT, it is begging the question to assume that Yahweh is only the Father.

Again there is but one true God the Father and its the Spirit of God not a person.

There is one true God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, who is the third person of the Trinity. I have given evidence that the Holy Spirit--the Spirit of God; the Spirit of Jesus Christ; the Spirit of Christ; the Spirit of his Son--is a person, by providing numerous verses which show actions of personal agency.

The Father promise states "My Spirit"

You have to show that, but that doesn't address the part of my post that you quoted:

The "another" is the Holy Spirit as another parakletos, but with reference to Jesus being the first parakletos--one who is like him but distinct from him. That is the plain reading of the text. It has nothing to do with Jesus having come from the Father and the Spirit is "another" from the Father, with no reference to Jesus. Remember, Jesus is the one speaking, not the Father.

Yes, Jesus is a person and honor is given. One God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ
Peter: May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
Paul:Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Neither does this address the part of my post you quoted:

In what way is the Holy Spirit like Jesus? He is also a "person," which is obvious because a parakletos (Helper, Counselor, Comforter, Advocate) cannot be a non-person. Jesus was the first parakletos, and remains so (1 John 2:1), but he was returning to the Father and the disciples still needed much help and guidance. It also means the Spirit is truly and fully God, in the same way Jesus is truly and fully God.

Not assuming anything. I didn't read the Spirit promised and The Spirit would send Himself.

That isn't an argument I am making. I am clearly addressing the fact that you're begging the question by assuming that Yahweh, who is speaking in Joel 2:28, is only the Father.

Your free to believe that.

And that is what the Bible teaches.

Jesus has a God.

As the God-man who lived in submission to the Father, yes. He lived a perfect human life and acknowledged, like all Jews, that he believed in the same God he did. In no way whatsoever does it mean he isn't also God.

The Spirit Jesus sends He received from the Father. Not God the Spirit. So you have Father and Son involved but no mention of God the Spirit when as you state it's the Holy Spirit?

The Holy Spirit is distinct person from both the Father and the Son, yet does things only God does, and is mentioned as part of the one name along with the Father and the Son in Matt 28:19. The only reasonable conclusion is that the Holy Spirit is truly and fully God just as both the Father and Son are.

It's clear to me He received it from the Father from whom all things came. As in created for Him.
So how does that relate to the declaration, "but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things?

Again, it is for man's benefit.

The one Jesus calls His God and Father is the only true God as I read from My Lord.

Which doesn't mean that the Son is also truly and fully God in the same way the Father is.

What others do has no bearing on my understanding. I do not deny Jesus. God the Father held nothing back and all the fullness of His Deity lives in His Son. "His" Diety not Jesus's.

John begins his gospel by showing the fully deity of the Word, that Word who was in intimate, personal relationship with God, who then became flesh in the person of Jesus, who is also called, "The Word of God" (Rev 19:13). The Word is the preincarnate second person of the Trinity, the Son.

If all that the Father is was pleased to dwell in Him (Jesus) then Jesus is the imprint of Gods very being and in that context is God. Your disagreement does not nullify that outlook.

No

You are not being true to the verse then and using logic only as fits your beliefs. The logic of 1 Cor 8:6 demands that the Father can never be Lord if Jesus can never be God. There is simply no way around it.

So you admit there was not a distinction given when stated together between God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ?

I don't understand the question.

Apparently, He has to command the Angels of God as well. You think they would know their God.
Hebrews 1:6

They do. First, in context, we see in verse 2 that all things were created through the Son, which agrees with John 1:1-3, 1 Cor 8:6, and Col 1:16-17. Second, the quote is from Psalm 97:7 in the Septuagint, which is a passage about Yahweh:

Psa 97:1 The LORD reigns, let the earth rejoice; let the many coastlands be glad!
Psa 97:2 Clouds and thick darkness are all around him; righteousness and justice are the foundation of his throne.
Psa 97:3 Fire goes before him and burns up his adversaries all around.
Psa 97:4 His lightnings light up the world; the earth sees and trembles.
Psa 97:5 The mountains melt like wax before the LORD, before the Lord of all the earth.
Psa 97:6 The heavens proclaim his righteousness, and all the peoples see his glory.
Psa 97:7 All worshipers of images are put to shame, who make their boast in worthless idols; worship him, all you gods! (ESV)

So, it is an OT passage about Yahweh being applied to the Son, by God. Third, just a bit later in verses 10-12, we have yet another passage about Yahweh (Psalm 102:25-27), with the Father specifically and clearly saying it is about the Son.

Col 1:19 - pleased to dwell in Him (Not Him) It remains the Fathers Deity. The Father in Jesus and Jesus in the Father.

But, in context, Paul has already stated that everything that has ever been created, was created through the Son, in complete agreement with John 1:3, 1 Cor 8:6, and Heb 1:2, 10-12. That can only mean that the Son is fully and truly God.

That they may be one as we are one. Context oneness not what was gifted.
The Father in Jesus and Jesus in the Father. We in Jesus and He in us.

I don't understand what you're saying here.

 

[GodsGrace]

Where did the Bible ever say there is a hypostatic union? Paul wrote away the idea in Philippians 2.


They can if God gives them the authority to.

Matt 9
5Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk?’ 6But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins...” Then He said to the paralytic, “Get up, pick up your mat, and go home.” 7And the man got up and went home.

8When the crowds saw this, they were filled with awe and glorified God, who had given such authority to men.

They can if God gives them the power to.

Acts 2
22Men of Israel, listen to this message: Jesus of Nazareth was a man certified by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know.


They can if they are God's chosen servant and messiah, designated to do such in God's plan and foreknowledge. Acts 2:23

According to you, any man could do any thing.

Well, besides Jesus, could you name another "man" who could forgive sins, heal with a 100% success rate, and raise dead persons?

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus Christ's human nature is without sin so not sinful like all humans are

I would never say Jesus has sin.
So, yes, Jesus is not sinful like all humans are.

He was tempted, but did not sin.

 

[SolaScriptura]

I would never say Jesus has sin.
So, yes, Jesus is not sinful like all humans are.

He was tempted, but did not sin.

Tempted but could not sin

 

[GodsGrace]

Tempted but could not sin

Agreed.
No sin nature.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Agreed.
No sin nature.

Yes Jesus Christ has a Perfect human nature as when Adam and Eve were Created before the fall

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes Jesus Christ has a Perfect human nature as when Adam and Eve were Created before the fall

We're derailing....
One last thought...
Adam and Eve were made to be immortal.
Do you consider that Jesus was immortal??